Congratulations. You win.
L
By the way I was not being sarcastic re: my post on apologies. People fall in 3 catrgoris
those who realize their mistake own their mistake and apologize
those who realize their mistake, don’t acknowledge it, but don’t carry on the debate
those who either never realize they made a mistake or can never own up to a mistake, and carry on the debate endlessly. An acknowledment of mistake, let alone an apology from this category, is simply out of question.
And there is a 4 th category
those who ridicule folks for owning their mistakes and apologizing.
There is no win and lose here, just a discussion on who is sincere in his/her conviction. And I did not ridicule you for merely dmitting your mistakes, (no reason for that) I asked you why come out so condescending and sarcastic to begin with and why keep doing it. You keep telling others not to be biased and show your bias all over. :no:
Anyhow;
All said and done, you still have not answered my simple question and have not acknowledged that I never said anything about any administration. Right?
If you were mistaken, then why not say that when questioned the first time? If not mistaken then prove me wrong. Trust me I will accept if I were to be wrong.
If you were really believing on your own post above then you should have acknowledged this or clarified immediately when questioned. And that, you still have to do sir.
46 million Americans are living in poverty. 50 million Americans do not have any healthcare. They don't have money for their own citizens but have money for wars, they have money for Israel.
46 million Americans are living in poverty. 50 million Americans do not have any healthcare. They don't have money for their own citizens but have money for wars, they have money for Israel.
Just for some perspective, Egypt, Pakistan, Sudan, The Palestinian territories, Jordan, Somalia, Morocco, and Indonesia also received American foreign aid.
Just for some perspective, Egypt, Pakistan, Sudan, The Palestinian territories, Jordan, Somalia, Morocco, and Indonesia also received American foreign aid.
Egypt, Jordan and The Palestinian territories are all tied up with the support for Israel, so giving them money is in fact bolstering Israel. In the case of Pakistan, what it gets does not even cover what the state has spent on WOT and supporting the U.S. Then as a result of WOT Pakistan has lost a lot of money in terms of investment, loss of life, loss of infrastructure, and loss of taxation through smuggling. Then corrupt and incompetent leaders have been placed at the behest of the U.S who have looted billions of dollars from the state and substantially increased national debt. Not only have the appointed corrupt leaders in Pakistan they also support corrupt leaders elsewhere as they are easy to control and to blackmail.
arshad5 - why is Pakistan involved in the WOT? out of friendly nature to help USA or Afghanistan? Isn't terror a Pakistan problem and hence the WOT occurs there?
arshad5 - why is Pakistan involved in the WOT? out of friendly nature to help USA or Afghanistan? Isn't terror a Pakistan problem and hence the WOT occurs there?
There was no terror in Pakistan before the U.S invaded Afghanistan and involved Pakistan in WOT. Now that the U.S is getting ready to leave Afghanistan it wants Pakistan to help it achieve peace and stability in Afghanistan. Basically it wants to cut and run but wants Pakistan to pick up the pieces. After ten years of war and failure with over 2,000 soldiers dead, it expects Pakistan to succeed where it failed.
There was no terror in Pakistan before the U.S invaded Afghanistan and involved Pakistan in WOT. Now that the U.S is getting ready to leave Afghanistan it wants Pakistan to help it achieve peace and stability in Afghanistan. Basically it wants to cut and run but wants Pakistan to pick up the pieces. After ten years of war and failure with over 2,000 soldiers dead, it expects Pakistan to succeed where it failed.
The Taliban were born and bred in Pakistan. You were perfectly fine with criminals like the Taliban terrorizing Afghanistan, but take issue with the fact that those vipers came home to roost?
And terrorism didnt just start over night, its the culmination of decades of Pakistani policy of allowing extremism to fester and even aiding terrorist groups in furthering the states own agenda. The groups that now terrorize Pakistan would never have gotten this strong had the state not allowed them to spread their tentacles throughout society in the first place. Pakistan is a victim of its own policies. Had the Pak govt not used extremists as proxies, we wouldnt be where we are today. America hasn't helped, but Pakistan shot itself in the foot long before the Americans arrived.
So you are accepting that the U.S is hypocritical, and stating that it is ok to be hypocritical? Do you even know what you are saying?
Im saying ALL societies are hypocritical, so dont single any one society out. No its not ok to be hypocritical, but neither is it ok for people living in glass houses to be throwing stones. Another words, fix your own house before you criticize others.
Pakistan has a lot of problems and can and should improve. The U.S did not improve overnight. Many wrongs things happened here as well, like slavery and the civil war. It took time for society here to mature and develop. The same will happen in Pakistan. People are people and people will act and react to each other. The people that have made the film are free, and the people that protested are also free. The people that protested violently are arrested. Above Pakistan, and above people the greatest responsibility has to be on our lone superpower and the policeman of this world. It needs to set its house in order before preaching to us the barbarians how to behave and what to do and what not to do. You cannot be a policeman if you have double standards and there is one law for one and another for the others.That is why I blame the U.S government the most as opposed to people and Pakistan.
Who is preaching?!?!? If it protects its interests, then it is at no more fault then Pakistan. The way in which Pakistan has sought to protect her interests have left us all shaking our heads in shame. The reason you perceive the US as such is because its power gives it influence. Its like an elephant, it cant help but crush everything in its way, its the nature of the beast. America is a much larger beast then Pakistan obviously, so its influence and range are also magnified. Pakistan however, is still a regional power. Ask the Afghans how they feel about Pak for example. Is their opinion of Pak so different from your opinion of America? The difference between Pak and the US in terms of the impact on the lives of those they influence, is only in terms of scope and degree. In fact, I would think that even within its limited range, Pakistan's influence has generally been more negative then the America's.
One thing is true. Those who have experience, who have their life in order, are those who we consider worthy of emulating and worthy of respect. That America is where it is, means Pakistan has much to learn from it. Words like barbarian are your words, not theirs, however i WOULD say that such words are not completely unjustified. We Pakistanis often look upon our own people as Jahil and Barbaric. What else would you call a society that arrests an illiterate handicapped girl, and accuses her of blasphemy?!?! Where else would a killed become glorified as the protector of the prophet himself?
The government can and should do something. There is no absolute freedom of speech or expression. This freedom is qualified, even in the U.S. The people that wanted to protest at the funerals of the soldiers were banned and laws were enacted to stop them protesting at the funerals. Denying the holocaust is a crime in some countries. There is nothing wrong with trying to integrate the various strands of society. Having respect for each other is not stagnating but strengthening the nation. If this was happening in any other country, where some people were trying to offend, ridicule and upset their own citizens than we all would expect that government to take action.
Brother. If you think they are going to change anything, or if you think they can even if they wanted too, then you really are naive.
I dont think there is any law banning any sort of protest. Holocaust denial is not against the law in the US, and we arent talking about Europe.
Banning offensive speech is a slippery slope. If you ban this, then whats next? Who decides what is or isnt offensive? What if tomorrow, Muslims are deemed offensive by Chiristians in America because the deny the divinity of Christ? What of those people in France who are offended by the burqa? Are they in the wrong? But shouldnt we protect their sentiments as well? You would say that the urqa ban is offensive to you, the French would say that the Burqa itself is offensive. Pakistanis should understand this point better then anyone. The absurdity with the way in which the so called blasphemy law is applied is amazing! Who is a blasphemer? Is a person who doesnt take part in a protest against blasphemy also a blasphemer? I mean where does it end? You dont understand that in complex societies, there is really no way to protect everyone from being offended or stop people from being offensive. Hell, there are offensive people in this very forum, and im sure you are offended often yourself, as im sure i have offended others as well. But if we were all obsessed with not offending no one would be able to express themselves.
Its not like you LITERALLY bark back at anyone. You dont get that?!?!
The debate is over whether or not ANYONE should respond to this video, in any way other then to ignore it!
We arent mentioning anyone specifically, just in general, whether such videos should warrant a response. And we use the analogy here to illustrate the point that when a DOG (guy who made the movie) BARKS, then only mad men (those who responded to it) would bark back (protest). You get it!!! So simple!
You as always have no idea what your talking about. You just enjoy the role of troll, and your comments are devoid of even the most basic logic. Thanks for wasting precious minutes from my life in reading your post… :HeadSmack: !
I don't burn down my house and I have no need to burn it down and BTW since when did you start caring about my house. If you cared so much about not burning houses then you would not be so gung ho about wars. Since you don't care about anyone else, do you know how many U.S soldiers have died and how many have been maimed for life? All because your leaders think that wars are a Hollywood movie. Recently I met a mother of a soldier who lost both legs in Afghanistan at the age of 25.....do you know what that mother is going through and how difficult her sons life is going to be? Soldiers think that they will be seen as liberators and welcomed. No soldier going abroad expects to be coming back in a body bag or crippled...but your leaders should know better. I just hope they don't start another war anytime soon.
Sarcasm is really lost on you isnt it?
You hate generalizations dont you! I dont appreciate the THEY in your comment "*LOL let the dogs bark....they have an inferiority complex and need to prove themselves in their new country."
You watch your tone and I will watch mine.
**And ofcourse I dont know what that mother is going through, because obviously your the only person the entire Universe who has any humanity and any empathy for the suffering of others. YOU are a saint, and everyone else is a devil... happy?
And no I dont care about your house either... ;)***
The Taliban were born and bred in Pakistan. You were perfectly fine with criminals like the Taliban terrorizing Afghanistan, but take issue with the fact that those vipers came home to roost?
And terrorism didnt just start over night, its the culmination of decades of Pakistani policy of allowing extremism to fester and even aiding terrorist groups in furthering the states own agenda. The groups that now terrorize Pakistan would never have gotten this strong had the state not allowed them to spread their tentacles throughout society in the first place. Pakistan is a victim of its own policies. Had the Pak govt not used extremists as proxies, we wouldnt be where we are today. America hasn't helped, but Pakistan shot itself in the foot long before the Americans arrived.
The Taliban were born and bred in Afghanistan. They were popular among the local people because they bought peace to Afghanistan to a large extent, they destroyed drugs in Afghanistan. Before that the country was dominated by warlords, who were supported and raised by the U.S to remove Soviets from Afghanistan. However once the Soviets left the U.S abandoned the country. If the U.S did not get involved in Afghanistan after 1979 then the whole region would have been peaceful now.
After 11 years of U.S occupation the drugs trade is booming in Afghanistan once again.
Im saying ALL societies are hypocritical, so dont single any one society out. No its not ok to be hypocritical, but neither is it ok for people living in glass houses to be throwing stones. Another words, fix your own house before you criticize others.
The society that sets itself up as above others has to be singled out more when it fails to meet those high standards.
Are you saying that I should not criticise the U.S. Where is your freedom of speech now?
Who is preaching?!?!? If it protects its interests, then it is at no more fault then Pakistan. The way in which Pakistan has sought to protect her interests have left us all shaking our heads in shame. The reason you perceive the US as such is because its power gives it influence. Its like an elephant, it cant help but crush everything in its way, its the nature of the beast. America is a much larger beast then Pakistan obviously, so its influence and range are also magnified. Pakistan however, is still a regional power. Ask the Afghans how they feel about Pak for example. Is their opinion of Pak so different from your opinion of America? The difference between Pak and the US in terms of the impact on the lives of those they influence, is only in terms of scope and degree. In fact, I would think that even within its limited range, Pakistan's influence has generally been more negative then the America's.
One thing is true. Those who have experience, who have their life in order, are those who we consider worthy of emulating and worthy of respect. That America is where it is, means Pakistan has much to learn from it. Words like barbarian are your words, not theirs, however i WOULD say that such words are not completely unjustified. We Pakistanis often look upon our own people as Jahil and Barbaric. What else would you call a society that arrests an illiterate handicapped girl, and accuses her of blasphemy?!?! Where else would a killed become glorified as the protector of the prophet himself?
Who is preaching?!?!? If it protects its interests, then it is at no more fault then Pakistan. The way in which Pakistan has sought to protect her interests have left us all shaking our heads in shame. The reason you perceive the US as such is because its power gives it influence. Its like an elephant, it cant help but crush everything in its way, its the nature of the beast. America is a much larger beast then Pakistan obviously, so its influence and range are also magnified. Pakistan however, is still a regional power. Ask the Afghans how they feel about Pak for example. Is their opinion of Pak so different from your opinion of America? The difference between Pak and the US in terms of the impact on the lives of those they influence, is only in terms of scope and degree. In fact, I would think that even within its limited range, Pakistan's influence has generally been more negative then the America's.
One thing is true. Those who have experience, who have their life in order, are those who we consider worthy of emulating and worthy of respect. That America is where it is, means Pakistan has much to learn from it. Words like barbarian are your words, not theirs, however i WOULD say that such words are not completely unjustified. We Pakistanis often look upon our own people as Jahil and Barbaric. What else would you call a society that arrests an illiterate handicapped girl, and accuses her of blasphemy?!?! Where else would a killed become glorified as the protector of the prophet himself?
The best thing that the U.S can do is to leave us barbarians alone and let us find our own way. If the U.S cannot do any good then it should at least stay away from us.
The U.S should focus on 46 million of its citizens living in poverty. If it is 46 million people now, at a time that the U.S is a economic power and is looting the resources of others, then I would dread to think what that number will be in 20 years from now as living standards start dropping there.
Brother. If you think they are going to change anything, or if you think they can even if they wanted too, then you really are naive.
I dont think there is any law banning any sort of protest. Holocaust denial is not against the law in the US, and we arent talking about Europe.
Banning offensive speech is a slippery slope. If you ban this, then whats next? Who decides what is or isnt offensive? What if tomorrow, Muslims are deemed offensive by Chiristians in America because the deny the divinity of Christ? What of those people in France who are offended by the burqa? Are they in the wrong? But shouldnt we protect their sentiments as well? You would say that the urqa ban is offensive to you, the French would say that the Burqa itself is offensive. Pakistanis should understand this point better then anyone. The absurdity with the way in which the so called blasphemy law is applied is amazing! Who is a blasphemer? Is a person who doesnt take part in a protest against blasphemy also a blasphemer? I mean where does it end? You dont understand that in complex societies, there is really no way to protect everyone from being offended or stop people from being offensive. Hell, there are offensive people in this very forum, and im sure you are offended often yourself, as im sure i have offended others as well. But if we were all obsessed with not offending no one would be able to express themselves.
Banning offensive speech is a slippery slope? Not banning offensive speech is a slippery slope. Are you telling me when they can invent all the laws under the sun...that they cannot make a law to ban offensive speech that targets just one particular group? Are the members of that group any lesser citizens of the U.S? Should the U.S not afford them protect from prejudice, and insults?
If women can lay down naked on a beech, or colour hair her pink but she cannot wear a headscarf? get real!
