Forced Conversions to Islam (in Kerala)

[rvikz]

Re: Forced Conversions to Islam (in Kerala)

@deedawar

Only a hindu-indian could come up with this sort of question to hide the fact.

Muslims ARE considered second class citizens in India..a punishment for their ancestors giving so much to contribute to the land. Few prominent do not represent the muslims as a whole.

Now, do you think muslims over 50 plus years became poor due to their own fault when they were well off prior to division.

With similar token, french blamed blacks and muslims for being poor…and society was so called secular there also.

it is not a monlithic community

However, it should be acknow-ledged that this discriminatory practice among Muslims, observed more in north India than south India, is not as pronounced, oppressive and widespread as amongst the Hindus. But that is hardly comforting.

The fact that discrimination based on caste lines exists within the Muslim community of India is bad enough. Most Indian Muslims are descendants of untouchable and low caste converts, with only a small minority tracing their origin to Arab, Iranian and Central Asian settlers.

Muslims who claim foreign descent assert a superior status for themselves as ashraf or noble. Descendants of indigenous converts are, on the other hand, commonly referred to contemptuously as ajlaf or base or lowly.

http://www.indianmuslims.info/?q=node/222&PHPSESSID=ba30f91cd2e2725614cb4284a7f8a95f

[deedawar]

Re: Forced Conversions to Islam (in Kerala)

@rvikz

it is not a …725614cb4284a7f8a95f

Actually anyone who was ‘achoot’ by hindus got many rewards and one Barhaman was complaining to me about it personally, but muslims got the tail end of the rope.

Aslaaf and Ajlaaf are the terms you used to make up for the degrading attitudes towards muslims for their ancestors ruling over you so gloriously.

Can we believe that majority of 150-200 milions consists Ajlaaf only?

No smart person would buy that.
Reality is that muslims will ALWAYS be second class citizens in India and people like you are living proof of it.

[Yudishthir]

Re: Forced Conversions to Islam (in Kerala)

@syedpk

so what if few muslims are rich and powerful in india it is a so-called secular country.president,azeem premji and two three other businessmen, bollywood khans do they represent the 150 million muslims in india(the actual fpopulation is around 200 million)

Actual population is 144 million.

two three other business men ? Dawoodi Bohras are the filhiest richest Muslims in India. I'll give you a tens of Muslims Fashion designers from the ongoing India Fashion Week, 20 Muslim choreos in film industry, 30,000 in the Indian Army, hundreds of thousands in police, thousands in the navy and Air-Force, millions in civil services, private services, hundreds of successful Muslim entrants in IITs and thousands in countless universities.

In fact, Pakistan cannot have a Sania Mirza for the next 50 years, She is hounded by Islamic clerics in India itself, how can she survive in Pakistan? Or a Bismillah Khan or Javed Akhtar. Or how about Zakir Hussain ? Isnt music haram in Pakistan ?

[quote]
It is a fact that muslims are the poorest community in India.The least educated and the most persecuted community/religion in India
[/quote]

Outside of Saudi Arabia, only India has the 2 most important Universities of Islamic studies. India has tens of thousands of Urdu medium schools and Madrassas for muslims, not to mention mosques in every suburb of every city.
Persecuted they are absolutely not. One Gujarat riots in some towns does not persecute 144 million people forever.

After the Diwali blasts and Varanasi blasts, no riots took place. Muslim clerics from all over India including Bukhari declared fatwa on the blasts. Even Hurriyat conference criticized the blasts.

Bottomline is, the representation of Muslims in Inda in mainstream society is not invisible, but quite proportionate with their population.
But why it isnt enough ? I came across a Muslim man once.Instead of sending his sons to a mainstream school he sent them to a madrassa. Maybe thats the reason ?

[deedawar]

Re: Forced Conversions to Islam (in Kerala)

@Yudishthir

Actual............. But why it isnt .................reason ?

Your post finally came to the exact mentlity of hindus hatred of muslims in last sentence and thanks for showing that at last.

Quote and name this person in India who sent his son or sons as you mentioned who went to madrassa and learned evil things...........!
We will be enlightened.

[rvikz]

Re: Forced Conversions to Islam (in Kerala)

On the whole, Indian Muslims are marching ahead, facing new challenges bravely. The 20th century has been a tragic period, full of pain and anguish for them, but the new millennium promises a more hopeful and prosperous future. And who knows? They may be able to show the right path of enlightenment and progress to the die-hard Muslims all over the world and play an effective role in re-uniting India, Pakistan and Bangladesh in a loose federation on the lines of the European Union. q
Functioning in a free, democratic and secular set-up, their vision has broadened. Some of their boys and girls are topping university examinations; many of them have become famous film and television stars. Others have shone in the print medium.

In art, MF Husain continues to reign. And In professions like medicine, engineering, even computer technology, they are making their mark. Mohammed Azharuddin, as former captain of the Indian cricket team, stands out. Azim Premji, the IT industrialist, was featured as the richest Indian in the world. Habil Khorakiwala is spreading the wings of his giant company to the west.

http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/01-2-2000/Art9.htm

A recent Goldman Sachs study has predicted that in 10 years India’s economy would be larger than Italy’s and in 15 years, it would have overtaken that of Britain’s. In the next 40 years, India’s per capita income will increase 35 times.

http://www.dawn.com/2006/04/01/ed.htm#4

[Yudishthir]

Re: Forced Conversions to Islam (in Kerala)

@deedawar

Quote and name this person in India who sent his son or sons as you mentioned who went to madrassa and learned evil things...........!We will be enlightened.

Not "evil" things. What I meant was that he probably denied his son mainstream education (like engineering) and sent him to a religious school. With a madrassa degree, I dont think he will get into civil services or any normal job, even in Azim Premji's company.

Anyway, we have diverted a lot from the topic. The fact is that Muslims have converted people, whenever they have weilded more power in India. Mughals were also no less. But they realized that they would end up angering many Rajput kingdoms under them, and their overwhelming Hindu subjects may rebel on a kingdom-wide scale. So they limited themselves.
Just like the Kerala example that was given in the start of this thread, another example was the terrorist Razakar militia under the Nizam of Hyderabad. He was far worse.

[Rahul67]

Re: Forced Conversions to Islam (in Kerala)

@rvikz

A recent Goldman Sachs study has predicted that in 10 years India’s economy would be larger than Italy’s and in 15 years, it would have overtaken that of Britain’s. In the next 40 years, India’s per capita income will increase 35 times.

http://www.dawn.com/2006/04/01/ed.htm#4

Above is based on big IFs… though lets see if that happens…
If above happens…
We will have immigrants who will come illegally, So what will have

1. Rioting becuase we won’t allow them citizen status.
2. They will burn cars and riot for few weeks
3. They will riot on slightest pretext since they will be uneducated running from fanatic governments and not able to see nudes
4. Above all, they will look at there country of origin for support and support them during cricket/soccer or hockey matches…

So even if above happens, We will have lots to do to avoid all the above…

Sorry it was off the topic…

[syedpk]

Re: Forced Conversions to Islam (in Kerala)

Yudishthir
There are 30000 muslims in the Indian army.I think Indian army deployed in kashmir is over 0.7 million and the Indian army is around 1.5 to 2 million or more than that.30000 out of 1.5 makes around 2 percent.The population of indian muslims is 15% if not 20 %..

Bohri/bohra muslims belonged to gujrati community many of them migrated to pakistan and most of them are rich and succesful in pakistan.Mittal,premji,ambani,tata and birlas all belong to marwari or gujrati community.I think communities like gujrati or marwari are successful all over the world not only India or pakistan.

I think the razakars missed sania mirza's family.Institutions like osmania proves the character of nizam.you guys can now say whatever you want to say about the muslim rulers because finally india is the "hindu kingdom" of the world.

There are 400 to 450 million muslims in south asia If muslims forced the local population why they didnot return to their old religion and why they didnt convert the whole India by force?????

rvikz
Caste system is not in Islam if some muslims follow it one cant blame Islam for that secondly in hinduism it was practised by the pundits(brahamins) so you have the four main castes and the caste less dalits.

MF husain will be either arrested by the state or attacked by some hindu fanatic because of his "controversial" paintings.Azharuddin is banned for life and the Indian board didnot support his case.did they???

[Rahul67]

Re: Forced Conversions to Islam (in Kerala)

What is the topic of this thread, where we are ..

[deedawar]

Re: Forced Conversions to Islam (in Kerala)

@Yudishthir

Not "evil" things. ...... worse.

Is ther any official stand from Indian Govt. or Indian Educational Board or whatever it is who controls it....... to deny anyone in civil service or Govt. jobs who are educated in Madrassahs or similar muslim schools?

[Yudishthir]

Re: Forced Conversions to Islam (in Kerala)

@syedpk

Yudishthir
There are 30000 muslims in the Indian army.I think Indian army deployed in kashmir is over 0.7 million and the Indian army is around 1.5 to 2 million or more than that.30000 out of 1.5 makes around 2 percent.

A few weeks ago, there was a lot of opposition on a national level, when the government wanted to find out the percentage of muslims in the Indian army. The army refused to provide the numbers. The 30,000 figure which I gave was an estimate by one newspaper.
Later the government backtracked, and did not get the figures. So when the government doesnt know, how can we know ?

Anyway, here is a TYPICAL prayer-place of the Indian Army:

There are many like this all over India’s borders, especially in Kashmir.

Muslims in Indian Army Can Wear Beards, Court Rules
NEW DELHI, 14 December 2003 :
http://www.aljazeerah.info/News%20archives/2003%20News%20archives/December/14%20n/Muslims%20in%20Indian%20Army%20Can%20Wear%20Beards,%20Court%20Rules.htm

Well, at least 2,700 Kashmiris joined the army in 2004:

First batch of Kashmiris join army

Kashmiris turn up in large numbers to join the Indian Army:

Kashmiris turn up in large numbers to join the Indian Army | India Defence

If you get the Times Now channel, it airs a programme called Line of Duty, that showcases the lives of Indian armed forces. Its anchor is Maroof Raza, a former major himself.

So, the Indian army is truly secular in character, and Muslims are not at all discriminated against.

Bohri/bohra muslims belonged to gujrati community many of them migrated to pakistan and most of them are rich and succesful in pakistan.

Arey forget Bohras, there are a number of Muslim ministers in UP cabinet alone, and many muslim ministers are in Congress ruled states, not to mention governors.
Even the BJP Government’s Civil Aviation minister was Shahnawaz Hussain. Its party spokesperson still is Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi.

I think the razakars missed sania mirza’s family.

Yes, because it was muslim. That was fortunate.

Institutions like osmania proves the character of nizam.

Opening of an educational institution does not correct the terrorist activities of the Nizam.

finally india is the “hindu kingdom” of the world.

No. Nepal is the only Hindu Kingdom in the world. Yes, but India is the bastion of Hinduism.

There are 400 to 450 million muslims in south asia If muslims forced the local population why they didnot return to their old religion and why they didnt convert the whole India by force???

There are less than 300 million muslims in South Asia today, and that too separated by a border.
In the days of the muslim rulers, they were far less, and in far lesser proportion also than today.

MF husain will be either arrested by the state or attacked by some hindu fanatic because of his “controversial” paintings.Azharuddin is banned for life and the Indian board didnot support his case.did they???

syebpk sahab, the exact opposite is true. He drew nude painting of Bharat Mata just about the same time the Prophet’s cartoons were drawn. Result ? One Hindu organization registered a police complaint against him…thats all.

1. All major newspapers carried his paintings on the front page, despite numerous letters to the editor NOT to do so (Newspapers’ resonse : Artistic freedom of a member of the minority community !! But those very newspapers were wetting their pants out in printing the prophet’s cartoons).

2. No mosques were burnt, no muslims were killed, no riots took place…ANYWHERE.

3. MF Hussain was not attacked (though he was abused a lot), his house wasnt attacked, and his familiy goes about its daily life as usual.

4. That MF (nice shortform for a heinous expletive) Hussain SHAMELESSLY displayed his painting in an Art Gallery, but it was withdrawn due to protests by the public.

Just imagine, if a Hindu were to do something like this in Pakistan. All of them would have been wiped out the next day.

I hope MF Hussain dies as soon as possible. Alhumdulillah!!.

[syedpk]

Re: Forced Conversions to Islam (in Kerala)

I think you know that muslims dont have enough representation in the army and in the bureacracy.

MF husain is no doubt a controversial figure and I dont endorse someone who insults a particular religion.But I dont know whats wrong with painting bharat mata nude(I mean its religious significance)I think to pray for someone's death proves the point of secularism.with MF husain add modi,thakeray to your prayers and dont forget salman rushdie

If we dont consider all the saarc countries and exclude muslim countries like maldives and afghanistan from saarc and muslim population in other conutries.

Pakistan with(140 million plus),bangladesh(125 million +) and india stats provided by you i.e 144 millionand that too a very conservative estimate anyway these three countries of south asia separated by borders even then will make a population of more than 400 million and obviously not 300 million.

Dont just make up stories of forced conversations which we all know are made up by the fanatics