For those who eat non-Zabeeha / Jhatka meat

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ?: *

indeed you asked to PA, but lemme explain what I understand!

During slaughter of Halaal animal, to take Allah's name...
What arab have Fatwa, they take name of Allah while eating assuming that will be Hallal for them :-)

The whole purpose to do Zabeeha is to drain blood, as blood is haraam to eat as you can see in (2) in all verses!

[/QUOTE]

I have a question in regard to the blood draining. We buy meat at a local halal shop and mom (who only eats halal) has mentioned several times that the meat is quite red and full of blood...and thus questions the fact if its truly halal or not. Is this the case with properly slaughtered halal meat? Can it have so much blood?

22

I would like responses to what I quoted , the question and answer, and your views on what you think its saying. Thanks.

23

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *

I have a question in regard to the blood draining. We buy meat at a local halal shop and mom (who only eats halal) has mentioned several times that the meat is quite red and full of blood...and thus questions the fact if its truly halal or not. Is this the case with properly slaughtered halal meat? Can it have so much blood?
[/QUOTE]
Munni ...thats a very common case here too,
I have never seen any meat look like this red and with thick red blood back in Pakistan,
here I was told that it is Zabeeha, but I still don't agree, cuz the owner of the shop hasn't done zabeeha, he just bring that from some where else!
So this sitaution made a doubt ...and when ever something is doubtful we must leave that...
the shop now I am buying from is selling pure Zabeeha meat as we used to buy in Pakistan, no blood at all no radish, and chicken they slughter infront of us in shop!

I would recommend you to either investigate till the slaughter house, or just leave it cuz it makes doubt!

24

Something else I found, which to me is interesting. If anyone wishes to elaborate or comment, please do so. Especially those that refute eating halal meat only. Thanks

Question :

I am presently residing in Canada. I have learned that in this country, in the province that I live in (ontario), the animals for beef etc..are killed then slaughtered.
So this will defeat the purpose of any muslim eating this meat. Since, the animal is dead before it is slaughtered. Some say we can eat the meat in Canada becaue these pple here are ahlul kitab. So, my question is when invited and eating at a muslim family's home who believes that they can go to the local supper market and buy the meat and eat from it. And insist the meat is halal to be eaten....what must I do? Should I just eat the meat even though I know they buy from the local supper market? I have tried telling them in a nice manner, directly, but they insist that the meat is halal. I am a new muslim and they have been very supportive in my hard times.

I do not want to just snob them or not visit them due to my fears. What is my obligation and can I eat the meat??? Please help, most lecturers and scholars that come here, keep insisting that the question has been answered and never answer it for us new muslim. And I have done my research as far as what I can do and not do and I am really not sure on this

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

Beef that has been killed before being slaughtered (i.e., before its neck is cut in the halaal method) is considered to be maytah (“dead meat”) and it is not permissible to eat it, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“He has forbidden you only Al Maitah (meat of a dead animal), blood, the flesh of swine, and any animal which is slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allaah (or has been slaughtered for idols or on which Allaah’s Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering). But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, and not transgressing, then, Allaah is Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful

[al-Nahl 16:115]

With regard to what you mention about some Muslims eat meating that has been killed before being slaughtered, it may be that they are sure that the meat that they are eating has been slaughtered according to sharee’ah, or it may be that they are ignorant of the rulings on this kind of meat, or they may have asked (scholars) who told them that this meat is halaal.

Whatever the case, you have to avoid eating these meats, and if anyone asks you to eat it, you should refuse to do so, and explain why you are refusing – so that they will follow that or at least excuse you for not eating it.

With regard to what you mention about some people saying that it is permissible to eat this meat because they are the People of the Book, the answer is that it is permissible to eat meat that has been slaughtered by the People of the Book, but this meat that you describe is not meat that has been slaughtered by them; rather it is dead meat, and it is not permissible to eat dead meat even if it was killed by a Muslim.

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

“Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

‘Made lawful to you this day are At Tayyibaat [all kinds of Halaal (lawful) foods, which Allaah has made lawful (meat of slaughtered eatable animals, milk products, fats, vegetables and fruits)]. The food (slaughtered cattle, eatable animals) of the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) is lawful to you and yours is lawful to them’

[al-Maa’idah 5:5]

This aayah makes it clear to us that the food of the People of the Book – i.e., the Jews and Christians – is permissible for us, but if we know that they have slaughtered a permissible animal in a manner other than that prescribed in sharee’ah, such as killing it by strangulation, electric shock, hitting it on the head, etc., then it is meat “which has been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow” (cf. al-Maa'idah 5:3), so it is haraam, just as meat which has been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow by a Muslim is also forbidden to us. But if we do not know what is the case, then the meat slaughtered by them is halaal for us, in accordance with the aayah.”

(Majallat al-Jaami’ah al-Islamiyyah, no. 3, p. 156

In conclusion, we hope that you will spread the fatwa of Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz to the Muslims whom you know, as much as you can. And Allaah knows best.

25

Thanks Ata. We havent found any shops around my place that offer meat with little blood.

A question, since we pretty much know that cattle in the US is given electric shock, is it true that electric shock is what kills the cattle, and then they slaughter the meat? Meaning the cow is dead by the shock and then the process of slaughtering it begins? If that is the case, then I think it is very obvious that such meat would not be permissible, on that merit alone. It's something I have never even considered before.

Jazak'Allah khair for bringing up the topic Ata. As ChaChoo stated, hopefully it will be an insightful discussion, Insha'Allah. smile

26

I don't understand the term Slaughter used by all these Fatwas...

The meaning of slaughtering an animal is to scarifies the life of animal in the name of Allah for the purpose of food …

I never heared Christian do Slaughter as Muslims are suppose to, they just kill the animal by electric shock or any other means,
Jews do Slaughter I agree as Muslim ways, and we are allowed to eat meat at Jews home, but still we should avoid it, cuz they are not Paak…as they drink wine too and eat pork as well in the same dishes…

I dunno how come these Fatwas are referring to eat meat which is for no doubt a non-halaal meat are allowing …

27

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *
Thanks Ata. We havent found any shops around my place that offer meat with little blood.

A question, since we pretty much know that cattle in the US is given electric shock, is it true that electric shock is what kills the cattle, and then they slaughter the meat? Meaning the cow is dead by the shock and then the process of slaughtering it begins? If that is the case, then I think it is very obvious that such meat would not be permissible, on that merit alone. It's something I have never even considered before.

Jazak'Allah khair for bringing up the topic Ata. As ChaChoo stated, hopefully it will be an insightful discussion, Insha'Allah. smile
[/QUOTE]
dua ka talabgaar and sorry to every one if I was rude or so, I didn't meant to be harsh or so ...I am sorry again to every one here!

and Munni, those who came here first ...had no Hallal shop at all, then they worked out and hence we are able to buy halal meat today here,
why not you can do the same in yr area ?
ask the owner of shop, and show him Quranic verses, and let him know that he will be getting all sins for selling non-Zabeeha food and telling lie or not inquiring about the meat as if its 100% Zabeeha or not, just you give him a lecture...at least we must do this at this level, no ?

28

i see alot of ppl eatin chinese food..i myself used to eat shrimp fried rice..i didnt even realize that even though shrimp is halal but chinese are not :(

29

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A60798-2001Apr9

Looking up some articles on slaughtering…that are relevant to the topic…will add one or two more…

By Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, April 10, 2001; Page A01

Second of two articles

PASCO, Wash.–It takes 25 minutes to turn a live steer into steak at the modern slaughterhouse where Ramon Moreno works. For 20 years, his post was “second-legger,” a job that entails cutting hocks off carcasses as they whirl past at a rate of 309 an hour.

The cattle were supposed to be dead before they got to Moreno. But too often they weren’t.

“They blink. They make noises,” he said softly. “The head moves, the eyes are wide and looking around.”

Still Moreno would cut. On bad days, he says, dozens of animals reached his station clearly alive and conscious. Some would survive as far as the tail cutter, the belly ripper, the hide puller. “They die,” said Moreno, “piece by piece.”

Under a 23-year-old federal law, slaughtered cattle and hogs first must be “stunned” – rendered insensible to pain – with a blow to the head or an electric shock. But at overtaxed plants, the law is sometimes broken, with cruel consequences for animals as well as workers. Enforcement records, interviews, videos and worker affidavits describe repeated violations of the Humane Slaughter Act at dozens of slaughterhouses, ranging from the smallest, custom butcheries to modern, automated establishments such as the sprawling IBP Inc. plant here where Moreno works.

“In plants all over the United States, this happens on a daily basis,” said Lester Friedlander, a veterinarian and formerly chief government inspector at a Pennsylvania hamburger plant. “I’ve seen it happen. And I’ve talked to other veterinarians. They feel it’s out of control.”

30

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ?: *
and we are allowed to eat meat at Jews home, but still we should avoid it, cuz they are not Paak…as they drink wine too and eat pork as well in the same dishes…
[/quote]

Jews don't eat pork mairay bhai.... and many muslims also drink ... have we ever questioned eating at their place?

31

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by funguy: *
PA, so what do you conclude? Is eating non-zabiha haraam?
[/QUOTE]

funguy i leave the conclusions to everyone's abilities and knowledge.. I can only say that scholars who are bent upon declaring everything haraam or halaal should also look at an often overlooked part of these verses..

".... but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring, nor exceeding the limit, no sin shall be upon him; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

32

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *

Jews don't eat pork mairay bhai.... and many muslims also drink ... have we ever questioned eating at their place?
[/QUOTE]
yes Muslims do drink and same Muslims don't care either what they eating , so they are responsible for further issues, but here we are talking about whats in Islam, ok I take Jews don't don't eat pork, but they all do drink!

and I was referring to the Fatwa, Munni printed in here !

33

waisay has anyone seen slaughterhouses in KSA and how they operate? I have, and lets just say based on what we are saying here, they do not meet the standards as well.

and then there is pakistan, I have listed it before but u go to some place to get a chicken and they slaughter it while talking to their pals

"oye #@#@#!! ussay wahan rakkho"
"abay teri #@##@!! mein rakhoon kya"

dunno how halal that meat is :)

34

Apparently cows are stunned and/or clobbered, depending on the slaughterhouse:

They will be put in a pen in a parking lot and wait their turn, and go up the ramp, and through a blue door. I was not allowed to go through the blue door. The kill floor is not something that journalists are allowed to see, even if you own the animal, I learned.

But I have reconstructed what happens on the other side of the blue door. What happens is that the animals go in single file. At a certain point, they pass over a bar, their legs on both sides, and the floor slowly drops away, and at that point they’re being carried along sort of on that bar, which is a conveyor belt, and they then pass through a station where there’s a man on the catwalk above. He’s holding an object that looks like a power nailing gun or something. It’s a pneumatic device called a stunner.

This essentially injects a metal bolt. It’s about the size and length of a thick pencil into its brain, right between the eyes, and that should render the animal brain dead.

At that point, chains will be attached to his rear legs. He will be lifted up by the chains. The chains are attached to an overhead trolley, and then he will be bled. Another person in another station will stick a long knife in and cut his aorta and bleed the animal. And then he will be completely dead.

And from there he goes through a series of stations to clean him and to remove his hide. One of the real problems is that the animals have spent their [lives] lying in their manure, are smeared and caked with the stuff, and they’re entering the food plant. And so many steps are taken to make sure that the manure doesn’t infect the meat, which can happen very easily.

35

I have always believed that animal over which any other (name) than (that of) Allah has been invoked is haram means that an animal should not have been slaughtered as a sacrifice for the idols. Now, the meat I buy say from a local supermarket is slaughtered for the purpose of consumption by the public and NOT for some idol.

But, this blood part is a little bit of concern. There is definitely more blood in the meat sold at non-zabiha shop than the meat from say, Qurbani ka jaanver.

36

Taken from Humane Farming Association site: http://www.hfa.org/hot_topic/slaughterhouse.html

Under federal law, animals are supposed to be rendered unconscious by a single application of a stunning device, generally through an electrical charge or a blow to the brain by a captive bolt gun. Once unconscious, the animal is shackled and hoisted. Then the animal’s throat is cut.

Eisnitz(author of the book Slaughterhouse) reveals that, due to meteoric line speeds, workers are often unable to stun or bleed animals adequately, and, as a result, animals proceed through the butchering process fully conscious.

Workers describe pounding away at cows’ heads with ineffective stunning equipment and repeatedly shocking pigs in an often-futile attempt to render them unconscious. Disabled animals are routinely dragged with cables, strangled or beaten to death with lead pipes.

Eisnitz discovers that poultry, exempt from coverage under the Humane Slaughter Act, are routinely conscious when immered in the scald tank as well.

37

I was listening to Dr. Zakir Naik the other day, he has given a very good lecture on “Islamic Dietary Laws” followed by Q&A session. It is very informative and every claim is backed by Quran and/or Hadith. In my humble opinion this guy is a great Alim. Check it out it,

http://www.irf.net/irf/drzakirnaik/index.htm and then go the “Audio Tapes” section

if you want a copy of the tape let me know.

38

In Islam, is brain-dead considered dead? Since the animals are stunned and supposed to be brain dead, does that mean the animal is dead and thus unlawful to eat?

Also, if the animal is stunned(brain dead) but still alive, as I suppose is the case with these animals, wouldnt it be considered like a violent blow to the head or other part of the body, and thus also be unlawful?

Mind you there is still the verse about being driven to necessity but I dont know if not wanting to drive for 30 minutes to a halal shop is considered not going out of necessity. Hmm.

Some hadith I found (for those interested in hadith):

Volume 7, Book 67, Number 424:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

The Prophet cursed the one who did Muthla to an animal (i e., cut its limbs or some other part of its body while it is still alive).

Volume 7, Book 67, Number 449:
Narrated Salim:

that Ibn 'Umar disliked the branding of animals on the face. Ibn 'Umar said, "The Prophet forbade beating (animals) on the face." (Is this relevant to the stun gun to the head?)

39

Munni, on No. 4, all I have to say is that at the time of slaughter is not present in the verses that are constantly interpreted to mean such.

Here's a 'followup' verse:

[5:4] They ask you as to what is allowed to them. Say: The good things are allowed to you, and what you have taught the beasts and birds of prey, training them to hunt-- you teach them of what Allah has taught you-- so eat of that which they catch for you and mention the name of Allah over it; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah; surely Allah is swift in reckoning.

PakistainAbroad: This is the clue for the knowledgable.. Animals of prey catch what they can and we've been instructed to eat of them by mentioning Allah's name 'over' it.. Now it certainly doesn't say the exact timing has to coincide with the time of death of the animal.. so it probably can be done AFTER the Animal of prey killed it.

Thus, "animals on which other than Allah's name has been invoked" is to be understood correctly, or we'd be left entangled in silly arguments on who the person or machine was at the exact time of death of the animal and whether they were of Christian or Jewish (or non drinking Muslims) etc. and if they actually did recite God's name or were busy abusively ordering around there Chota's as Frauds insinuated.

40

Also taken from hadith (for those who follow hadith):

Zaid bin Amr said to the pagans: "I do not eat of what you slaughter on your stonealtars (Ansabs) nor do I eat except that on which Allah's Name has been mentioned on slaughtering."

Narrated Adi bin Hatim:

The Prophet said, "If you let loose your hound after a game and mention Allah's Name on sending it, and the hound catches the game and kills it, then you can eat of it. But if the hound eats of it, then you should not eat thereof, for the hound has caught it for itself. And if along with your hound, join other hounds, and Allah's Name was not mentioned at the time of their sending, and they catch an animal and kill it, you should not eat of it

Adi bin Hatim said, "Sometimes when I send my hound after a game, I find another hound along with it and I do not know which of them has caught the game." He said, "You must not eat of it because you have not mentioned, the Name of Allah except on sending your own hound, and you did not mention it on the other hound."