For those who eat non-Zabeeha / Jhatka meat

Al_Quran : 5.3
**
" Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat blood the flesh of swine and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah that which hath been killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a headlong fall or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any forced by hunger with no inclination to transgression Allah is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful. "

**

Infact I dont want to start a debate on this, so I will refrain. smile

^-- May Allah have mercy on you ...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ?: *
^-- May Allah have mercy on you ...
[/QUOTE]

Ameen.

**A. Yusuf Ali Quran Translation
Surah Al-Baqara Ruku 21

170
When it is said to them: "Follow what Allah hath revealed" they say: "Nay! we shall follow the ways of our fathers." What! even though their fathers were void of wisdom and guidance?
from
(2.170)

173
Dead meat: maitat: carrion; animal that dies of itself; the original Arabic has a slightly wider meaning given to it in Fiqh (Religious Law); anything that dies of itself and is not expressly killed for food *with the Takbir duly pronounced on it. * But there are exceptions, e.g., fish and locusts are l"awful, though they have not been made specially halal with the Takbir. But even fish or locusts as carrion would be obviously ruled out.
from (2.173)

2.173
"He hath only forbidden you dead meat and blood and the flesh of swine and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of Allah but if one is forced by necessity without wilful disobedience nor transgressing due limits then is he guiltless. For Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful. "

**

Munni, these are verses from Quran, exact translation, not the words of me anyone, but words of Allah...I hope you re think !

How do Arab scholars and Alims take the same verses and deduce a different meaning?

good question Chachoo.. the answer was kindly provided by ?

When it is said to them: *"Follow what Allah hath revealed"** they say: "Nay! we shall follow the ways of our fathers." What! even though their fathers were void of wisdom and guidance?
fro*m

Going to do some more research today insha'Allah and see what I come up with.

PA, if you can give some elaboration on the #4 you are quoting, please do so. Thanks.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
good question Chachoo.. the answer was kindly provided by ?

When it is said to them: *"Follow what Allah hath revealed"** they say: "Nay! we shall follow the ways of our fathers." What! even though their fathers were void of wisdom and guidance?
fro*m
[/QUOTE]

That is not the answer I was looking for but thank you for pointing it out. I think there is more to it than that. There are very well respected Alims (I think Bin-Baz being one of them) who have put in tremondous efforts in finding the truth and issued a "fatwa" that it is not Haram. I am not advocating for it or against it, I am just trying to understand what is the logic that they have used to derive to a completly opposite meaning. If it is so simple as you pointed it out then why can't these Alim's understand it?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChaChoo: *

a "fatwa" that it is not Haram.

[/QUOTE]

ChaChoo, are you saying Sheikh bin Baz said its okay to eat or not okay to eat non zabeehah? References? Thanks.

Munni, that Fatwa you provided does not fit at all of that Quranic Verse...
I dont' accpet that at any cost!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *

ChaChoo, are you saying Sheikh bin Baz said its okay to eat or not okay to eat non zabeehah? References? Thanks.
[/QUOTE]

I apologize if I caused confusion, I said "I think".. I have only heard this... but let me do some research and find the "fatwa".

[quote]
As long as they consider it lawful in their religion, it is halal for us.
[/quote]

this assumes that corporate America follows any religious injunctions which is simply untrue and very misleading.

Corporations do what's best for profit as long as they stay clear of activists and/or frivilous lawsuits. Their method of killing animals is not 'approved' by any religion.

[quote]
I am just trying to understand what is the logic that they have used to derive to a completly opposite meaning. If it is so simple as you pointed it out then why can't these Alim's understand it?
[/quote]

the "Aaalims" refuse to treat the Qur'an, what Allah has revealed as the final authority. They will always try and fall back on mutually agreed upon historical accounts to determing halaal and haraam. If they stick to the Qur'an things couldn't get simpler.

[2:172] O you who believe! eat of the good things that We have provided you with, and give thanks to Allah if Him it is that you serve.
[2:173] He has only forbidden you what (1) dies of itself, and (2) blood, and (3) flesh of swine, and (4) that over which any other (name) than (that of) Allah has been invoked; but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring, nor exceeding the limit, no sin shall be upon him; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

And the definitive statement as the Prophet was instructed to relay:

[6:145] Say: I do not find in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden for an eater to eat of except that it be (1) what has died of itself, or (2) blood poured forth, or (3)flesh of swine-- for that surely is unclean-- or (4) that which is a transgression, other than (the name of) Allah having been invoked on it; but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring nor exceeding the limit, then surely your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful.

[16:115] He has only forbidden you (1)what dies of itself and (2)blood and (3)flesh of swine and (4) that over which any other name than that of Allah has been invoked, but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring nor exceeding the limit, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful

PakistaniAbroad: numbers are my addition:

You can see The Qur'an is very consistent.. any doubts are introduced by the "Aalims"..

btw, do we really need any Fatwa in the light of these Quranic Verses which are very obvious and simple to understand?

There are Arbs who says say Bismillah and eat every thing…is that what our religion and Prophet :saw: has taught us ?
Arab do gamble, drink wine, do sex…do every thing and when it comes to eating they say eat every thing no matter at Jew’s home or Christian home, ???
shame!!!

plz don;t twist Islam and Quran , it is very simple and keep it simple, if any one willing to eat go ahead do it, but don’t make that a Islamic law…do it and keep to yourself, dont’ twist Quran just for satisfying yourself!
I won’t die if I don’t eat haraam food, and :jazak: in last several years here I never touch any haraam / jhatka food, and Allah helped me, once I had eaten only rice and potato / tomatoes for 4 months but didn’t touched any meat! (Just an example)

Its upto you guys what you do, all of us here well educated and matured, no need to walk holding fingers!

PA: :jazak:

PA, so what do you conclude? Is eating non-zabiha haraam?

PA, please elaborate on #4, because that is where I find that many dispute.

This is what I found on that ever-popular site www.islam-qa.com. What is it essentially saying? In my family, we buy halal meat, but I myself eat out at restaurants so I found this question the most appropriate to quote...:

Question :

I know that this question has been addressed, but I am still confused as to all the circumstances in which it is permissible. Basically, is it permissible to eat meat from restaurants if it is not known whether the name of God has been pronounced at the time of slaughtering of the animal.

Answer :

Praise be to Allaah.

If these restaurants are in a country where the slaughter of meat is taken care of by Muslims or People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians), or the restaurant owners take care of the slaughter themselves and they are Muslims or people of the Book, then it is permissible to eat there, even if we do not know whether they mentioned the name of Allaah over the slaughter or not, because the basic principle is that their meat is allowed. Al-Bukhaari (2057) narrated from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that some people said, “O Messenger of Allaah, some people bring meat to us and we do not know whether they mentioned the name of Allaah over it or not.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Say the name of Allaah over it and eat it.”

But if the slaughter of meat is taken care of by people other than Muslims or people of the Book, such as atheists and Hindus, then it is not permissible to eat it.

It should be noted that meat slaughtered by a Muslim or a Jew or Christian is permissible if it was slaughtered in the manner prescribed in sharee’ah or if we do not know how it was slaughtered. But if we know that it was slaughtered in a way other than that prescribed in sharee’ah, such as by strangling, electric shock, etc, then it is maytah or dead meat and it is haraam to eat it regardless of whether the one who killed it was a Muslim or a kaafir, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Forbidden to you (for food) are: Al‑Maitah (the dead animals — cattle — beast not slaughtered), blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which Allaah’s Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering (that which has been slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allaah, or has been slaughtered for idols) and that which has been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by the goring of horns — and that which has been (partly) eaten by a wild animal — unless you are able to slaughter it (before its death)”

[al-Maa'idah 5:3]

Shaykh Ibn Baaz in Fataawa Islamiyyah, 3/414

Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said:

One of the following three scenarios must apply to this meat:

1 – We know that it has been slaughtered in the proper manner. This meat is halaal.

2 – We know that it has not been slaughtered in the proper manner. This meat is haraam.

3 – We are not sure; we do not know whether it has been slaughtered in the proper manner or not. The ruling in this case is that the meat is halaal, and we do not have to ask about how it was killed, or whether the name of Allaah was mentioned over it or not. Rather it seems from the Sunnah that it is better not to ask or try to find out. Hence when they said to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “we do not know whether they mentioned the name of Allaah over it or not,” he did not say to them, Ask them whether they mentioned the name of Allaah over them or not, rather he said: “Say the name of Allaah over it yourselves, and eat it.” This tasmiyah or saying of the name of Allaah which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told them to do is not the tasmiyah of slaughter, because the slaughter is over and done with. Rather it is the tasmiyah of eating, because what is prescribed is for the person who is eating to say the name of Allaah when he eats. The correct view regarding saying the name of Allaah when eating is that it is obligatory, because the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) enjoined it, and because if a person does not say the name of Allaah, the Shaytaan shares his food and drink.

If a person wants to be cautious and forego eating this meat, there is nothing wrong with that, but there is also nothing wrong with eating it.

From Fataawa Islamiyyah, 3/415

And Allaah knows best.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *
PA, please elaborate on #4, because that is where I find that many dispute.
[/QUOTE]

indeed you asked to PA, but lemme explain what I understand!

During slaughter of Halaal animal, to take Allah's name...
What arab have Fatwa, they take name of Allah while eating assuming that will be Hallal for them :-)

The whole purpose to do Zabeeha is to drain blood, as blood is haraam to eat as you can see in (2) in all verses!

bro… you are flying around everywhere and flaunting your own Muslim brothers. Did our prophet teach us to speak about our own Muslim brothers and sisters like this? Wasn’t he an Arab himself?

We are having a very productive discussion and let’s not generalize any particular social and ethnic groups. The actions that you pointed out are done by Arabs and non-Arabs alike. When I used the word Arab I meant to say a different school of thought a different “maslak”. Islam encourages dialogue, may be we can learn from this dialogue and Allah will give you ajar for starting this discussion, InshaAllah.

I do agree with you that Islam is simple and we should keep it simple. But there is obviously a big debate/confusion on this subject for years and every well known Alim has spoken on this subject. Don’t flaunt Alim’s either, you can differ with them but don’t ridicule them… Alims and fatwas have place in Islam, I know some Alim’s have made Islam look bad and Allah is not ignorant He is taking notice of us all.

I am in agreement that these verses are very clear and there is no doubt at least in mind and PakistaniAborad is right on the money, there is no Christian or Jewish outfit that I am aware of that produces the meat according to their own religious guidelines (there might be some but I am not aware of them)

I think it is a good discussion lets discuss it with open mind and “Dalail” and lets hope to learn from it.

and Allah knows best.

Thank you chachoo and I am sorry if I offend, and yes plz continue!