For Rani - Who out of arrogance is misunderstanding Islam

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Other posts I just posted were for people who posess little or no knowledge about Islam, and this post is for you as well.

Let me quote on what you have been saying:

You are so into biased Jewish media that you say things that you even do not understand.
What is your knowledge about authentic Islam?

There is no compulsion for a person to accept the Truth,but it is certainly a shame upon the human intellect when a man is not even interested in finding out what is the Truth!

Islam teaches that our CREATOR has given human beings the faculty of reason. Therefore, it is incumbent upon them to reason things out objectively and systematically for themselves to ponder, to question and to reflect.

Nobody should press you to make a hasty decision to accept any of the teachings of Islam, for Islam teaches that human beings should be given the freedom to choose, even when a person is faced with the Truth, there is no compulsion upon him to embrace it.

But before you begin to form an opinion about Islam, ask yourself whether your existing knowledge about it is thorough enough. Ask yourself whether that knowledge has been obtained through third party sources who themselves have probably been exposed to only random glimpses of Islamic writings and have yet to reason out on Islam objectively and systematically themselves.

Is it fair enough that one should form an opinion about the taste of a particular dish just by a mere hearsay from others who may themselves have not necessarily tasted the dish yet?

Similarly you should find out for yourself about Islam from reliable sources and not only taste it, but rather digest it very well before you form an opinion of it. That would be an intellectual approach to the Truth.

In making your next move to the Truth, Islam continually reassures you that your rights to freedom of choice and freedom to use that God-given faculty of thought and reason will be respected, for everyone has that individual will. No one else can take away that will and force you to submit to the will of our CREATOR, you have to find out and make that decision yourself.

I hope you don’t try to lean on the falseness and biased veiws shoved in your brain by western media, be a lady, try to face the truth like it is. And investigate, what ever you will say about other faiths.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Thanks.

PS: Who is brain washed? You or Muslims? I think it is you, who bases her opinion from people(Jewis)who have been telling lies about everything, even their creator. Think before you act, truth always wins, leave the arrogance and come to the truth before it is too late for you.

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited October 08, 2000).]

2

[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**
What is your knowledge about authentic Islam?
**
[/quote]

Rani's point is like this:

A couple of years ago, for Houston's Navratri celebration, a local mosque paid several Muslims to go to our citywide Raas/Garba held at the Astroarena - the purpose of paying the Muslims was simple - to convert as many Hindus as possible at such a large gathering of Hindus, using propaganda as only proselytizers know how. The backlash is still felt today in Houston.

Yet, we Hindus still allow any person to come to our celebrations of Navratri, and celebrate with us, no matter the color of their skin, their race, or their religion.

The question now is - why aren't we Hindus allowed to come to the Eid celebration with the Muslims in Houston?

[This message has been edited by astrosfan (edited October 08, 2000).]

3

Astrofan:
The question now is - why aren’t we Hindus allowed to come to the Eid celebration with the Muslims in Houston?

Have you ever tried asking the Muslims in Houston?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

We are the Taleban! Resistance is Futile!

4

One question:

Why does any group allow/welcome members of other faiths to participiate in their festivities/places of worship?

What do they want to accomplish with this gesture?

Ok, so I asked two....

5

Astrofan, why would you go in a Muslim festival? Hindus consider Muslims “achooht” lower class/caste in your(hinduism) caste system. Right? You people clean your houses, after a Muslims has been there. Brahamin don’t even alow the lower caste Hindus to come to their festivals just because they are from lower caste, even though they are hindus. Why would you come or alow Muslims to be at your festivals.

If Hinuds were converted, why does it bother you? Its their choice, they can chose what ever faith they want to. You try converting a Muslim to Hindu, IF you are truthful.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

And if something happens in houston, it does not mean the whole teachings of Islam and Quran are based on what people in houston do. Most are ignorent of their religion, they do not know how to deal with non-Muslims. And people like Rani go on making assumptions and generalizing whole faith.

Muzna, I would invite other members to festivties and Mosque so that people can learn more about Islam, and what it is about. It would help them learn the basic beliefs and morals of Islam. And it might help to erase the stereotype thinking that they have made about Islam by the influence of Jewish/western media.

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

6

Muzna baji:)

Alright from an islamic perspective, we give dawah not only because we want to establish Allah swt's deen wherever we go, but for us as muslim's calling people to islam is an obligation.I mean in surah an-Nisaa, its says: 'Invite to the Way of your Lord with wisdom and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided.'

Inviting people to our places of worship, allowing them to take part/witness our celebrations is a means of showing them islam. Islam does not 'bribe', it does not take the missionary..(ie.evangelistical) approach of christians, to illustrate this point we need not look further than our own backyard...the natives in north america.
There is NO force in islam, a desire to believe has to come from within, and faith, IMAN can only come from Allah swt.

Muzna baji, inviting people to our masjids, letting them witness our eids, telling them about ramadan...all these things are a form of da'wa. Da'wa is not preaching, its not criticizing...it is showing, by not only our words, but our actions, our manner, our character, our example.

'And who is better in speech than he who invites to Allah and does righteous deeds, and says: 'I am one of the Muslims.'
(41:33)

7

Btw:)
That verse from surah an-Nisaa was verse 125.

8

Girl From Qurysh

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Islam is freewill, Islam is freedom; it upholds free will and encourages rational thought; it recognizes only that virtue or sin which an individual earns through free action and choice. Within its parameters is a code of behavior, a complete social pattern for man and for woman, that looks out to the whole of life through the harmony of a balanced scale. In this system, based on natural law and innate reason, (the Knowing System of the Creator Himself), cooperation is the standard criterion. Muslims are brothers and sisters in the family of mankind, brethren all under Islam, in the sweet surrender of obedience and worship to Allah, Unique and One (Tawhid). Each Muslim, man or woman, chooses to be a Muslim. Each Muslim is ultimately accountable for his and her actions to Allah alone. Allah will call us all to account on the Day of Reckoning. How easy it becomes, then, to be truly free. For the vain idols of stone, the enslaving tyrants of greed, of lust, of ambition, of public opinion crumble to naught. Freedom from the tyranny of man and man-made conceits: Islam liberates.

“God does not judge according to your bodies and appearances but scans your hearts and looks into your deeds.” "And one of (Allah’s) signs is that He created mates for you from yourselves, that you may find rest in them, and between you He put love and compassion." (Surah 30:21).

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

9

These statements show a basic non-understanding of Interfaith. Why would someone who is Hindu go to a Hindu festival? Why would a Hindu go to a Muslim festival? Let me give a new situation:

I am a rabid Houston Astros fan. But I am also a baseball fan in general. When I visit Cleveland, and the Cleveland Indians are playing the Seattle Mariners at the Jake, I will go, and I will root for the home team. I will not go and root for the Astros while the Indians are playing the Mariners - that would be foolish. But I love baseball, and I will watch any two teams play, and revel with the home fans because we all enjoy baseball.

Similarly, I am a Hindu. But I believe in the fundamental brotherhood of humanity, that we all believe in something, and that the fundamental to everyone’s belief is something found in Vedanta. I will worship with them, because I respect their beliefs, and because I know that by sharing my worship with others, that I am strengthening my bond with humanity, while simultaneously strengthening my own faith. This is Interfaith. Why worship with others? Because there is joy in sharing with all of humanity.

Swami Vivekananda’s guru - Swami Ramakrishna - attained Samadhi by not only practicing Hinduism, but also by practicing every major religion of the world, including Christianity and Islam. What he saw was that you could realize God by any of these methods, and really, that’s all that matters.

Some people may. I don’t.

This is a naive statement.

This is another naive statement.

It would bother me if the Hindu was made to convert due to psychological and/or physical pressure that would simply to make his life easier if he was to convert. Like the communal pressure by the ummah for a Hindu spouse to convert to Islam when marrying a Muslim - in that circumstance, it is not simply a matter of free choice.

Why do you get to make generalizations about Hindus and caste, but non-Muslims can’t generalize about Muslim actions based on the public actions of Muslims?

10

[quote]
Originally posted by astrosfan:
** Why do you get to make generalizations about Hindus and caste, but non-Muslims can't generalize about Muslim actions based on the public actions of Muslims?

**
[/quote]

Well said astrosfan

But you can say what you like and Rani can say what she likes, I can assure you that you are wasting your time with narrow minded people like watcher. As for as watcher is concerned there is one rule for the muslims and another for all the others.

I'm glad to say that not all muslims are like watcher and tauba tauba.

Some of my best friends are muslims and we always respect each other's beliefs and never try to convert each other by making comparisons between two faiths and by proving one faith to be a better path than the other.

11

Watcher,

Why are you wasting your time? All rani knows what to do is to pick one word from a sentence, take it out of context and make a senseless argument about it, just to get attention and then get totally cussed, then she cowers and hides away!!!hello??? Do you really think she is worth this effort? She cant even hold an argument.

Sorry If you think I have spoiled this thread, please forgive me, but I really from my heart am telling you what I think.

Dont bother

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

(This will probably get deleted)

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/frown.gif

12

With respect but why are you giving Rani more importance than her ignorance deserves?

I mean Mariah and I were having a perfectly good discussion on the revolution in Serbia in World Affairs, and then Rani jumps in because she heard the term "kuffar" being used and found it offensive. The term was not even being used against her personally, Sikhism or Hindusim. But she jumped on her high horse and started to pick on Mariah.

She almost ruined the perfectly good discussion we were having because she wanted to bash Muslims over a term whose meaning she does not even understand! So whats the use of giving her such exposure when she has closed her mind when it comes to the teachings of Islam?

[This message has been edited by Malik73 (edited October 09, 2000).]

13

Astrofan,

Watcher's comments are based on Hindu teachings. All these beliefs can be found in the holy books of Hinduism.

14

I see - the Israel Jews aren't allowed to be "stupid religious bigots", but you are. Of course.

I see your Hindu holy book statement (which you yourself know to be wrong), and raise you your Islamic holy book statements about the kafir (the original point of this thread).

[This message has been edited by astrosfan (edited October 09, 2000).]

15

Astrofan, You said: “Why do you get to make generalizations about Hindus and caste, but non-Muslims can’t generalize about Muslim actions based on the public actions of Muslims”?

Now you are hiding behind generalization and all that crap, crying like a baby won’t do you no good. <“but non-Muslims can’t generalize about Muslim actions based on the public actions of Muslims”?> Oh is that so? You guys generalize and corrupt pure Islamic beliefs when you see something on TV that is done by some maniac. You guys always generalize Islam and Muslims, you consider Islam a terrorist religion. Don’t you? I am sure you will “some do, I don’t”!

“I see your Hindu holy book statement (which you yourself know to be wrong), and raise you your Islamic holy book statements about the kafir (the original point of this thread).”

Point with that was, to show you your own believes from your own books, since you believe in them. Orignial point of this tread is again: Islam is and it means - peace. Do not generalize other muslims and authentic Islamic believes on basis of what you hear on news media controled by Jews and your Indian agencies. Rani and all others are continueingly doing that without the understanding of the true Islam. YOu guys base your opinion on the acts of few maniac terrorists, you call majority of Muslims bad and terrorists and make highly pathetic and biased statments and generalization about them. WHICH IS WRONG!!!
Read my post on “what Islam says about terrorism”!

I think, I explained why anyone would go to festivals of other faiths.

As Mr. Extreme said, My statmets that you call “naive” can be found in your holy books, with allots of other stuff.

Sanjhabanda, Who is disrespecting your believes here? No one! Just because, I am argueing with you with evidence and you say “I an narrow minded”? Can’t you argue without making personal attacks? Can you try to be a human and argue like one. Please.

Friendly environment makes a difference, if you start making personal attacks at me, how the hell do you expect me to be nice and treat you like a good hindu? Grow up!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Mariah, You are very right. I have seen her do that in other posts in Kashmir affairs and in World Affair. No wonder, she hasn’t shown up here yet.

PS: I just want every non-muslims to investigate and know the true religion of Islam before you go making prejudiced statments and generalizing whole Islam. I am not personal attacking now one, so rule that out!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited October 09, 2000).]

16

** "Never Judge a Religion by it's People, Judge a Religion by it's Scripture!" **

Thank you.

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

17

[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**** "Never Judge a Religion by it's People, Judge a Religion by it's Scripture!" **

**
[/quote]

I couldn't disagree more. You judge a religion by its impact on your psyche.

Your statement is only true if the religions in question require that its scripture be absolutely and exclusively right, and that any free will against the scripture be branded as incorrect thought.

18

Watcher,

I am fed up with posts like this, most people on this forum bad mouth non-muslims all the time. Words such as Kaffir are part of their everyday vocabulary. They Indulge in personal attacks and cheer participant who bad mouth all non-muslims Indians and indulge in low and petty personal attacks. Even on this thread many of you are constantly bad-mouthing me, although I have not posted a single post.

You can all cheer each other and bad mouth Indians and me with all kind of unprintble language....I really don't care...it actually is indictive of your insecurity.

Scroll down the religious forum you will find many many posts abusing Hinduism and non-muslims. How people like you never raise never raise your voice when Hindu and Sikh bashing goes on.

Standard of discussion on this forum and others have been reduced to just personal attacks, ganging up to bash somebody and repetitives posts ....you can carry on with your personal attacks. I have nothing to say to you...I have other things to do therefore I don't have time to answer your useless accusations.

In future all posts addressed to me, trying to put me on trial for something I said in another thread in a particular context will be completely ignored by me...you and your brothers and sisters can carry on with the mud slinging alone, without any help from me.

So long.....

P.S. For the flavor of personal attacks and bashing read in Kashmir forum..."Indian muslims will neve give up Kashmir"...some people will stop at nothing.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited October 10, 2000).]

19

Hey, so if few nuckle heads are personally attacking you, does that mean you generalize the whole Islam and its teachings?

I have seen you generalize and wrote over and over again, as if Islam teaches Muslims to be like that.

You repeatedly have judged Islam on bases and acts of by minority of its people.

No one is imposing Islam on you. All, I am asking is STOP generalizing Islam, STOP judging the whole Muslims ummah on the actions of few.

As I wrote earlier " Do not judge a religion by its people, but judge a religion by its scriptures".

You base your ideas and thoughts about Muslims and Islam on what you hear on biased jews media. But, what it comes to knowning the real religion of Islam, you can’t do much to help your self and research about it.
One of the many short comings which has arisen in the West, is judging Islam by the conduct of a minority of its people. By doing this, segments of Western society have deliberately played off the desperate actions of many Muslims, and have given it the name of Islam. Such behaviour is clearly not objective and seeks to distort the reality of Islam. For if such a thing was done Judge a religion by the conduct of its people) then we too could say that all Christianity is about is child molesting and homosexuality whilst Hinduism was all about looting and breaking up mosques. Generalising in such a manner is not seen as being objective, yet we find that the Western world is foremost in propagating this outlook on Islam.

If someone, or ANYONE personally attacks you, keep the attack between you and that person, DO NOT BRING ISLAM OR ITS TEACHING IN YOUR DEBATES!!! Thank you, I hope you can understand.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

20

Rani you have long accused Muslims of honour killings - why don't you now tell us about Sikh honour killings i.e. Bib Jahir Kaur killing her daughter?