For NYAhmadi: An opinion on wishing non-muslims

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Dear NYAhmadi and all other friends and participants:

While I respect your right to your beliefs, and your freedom to wish your friend’s (muslims, jews or christians) on any of their occassions, I had a desire to check up on this issue from Islamic sources.

As it turns out the issue whether we (muslims) can congratulate non-muslims on their festivals is addressed by several scholars in light of Quran and Sunnah. Below is one such opinion. You may choose to disagree, however, I will definitely like to know your point-of-view. I will also appreciate if you can provide some evidence to corraborate your point-of-view, so that we can also increase our knowledge.

This topic is, ofcourse, open for all muslims, and non-muslims. Kindly refrain from making personal attacks or attacks on beliefs of other people.

Thanks

[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited October 14, 2000).]

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But Ahmadies are anyway not Muslims. So what is thne use of Islamic opinion?

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ullu: The key point is that the followers of Ahmadiyya sect don't say that they are non-muslims. They still believe in Quran. In any case, that is a separate discussion, so lets keep it out of this thread. Thanks!

I just wanted to gather opinions from all sorts of beliefs. Even you can post your opinion on this matter. I have posted an opinion from one Islamic scholar. I will be very surprised if even all muslims agree to this. The purpose of this forum is know new ideas and share knowledge. So make it to good use.

[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited October 14, 2000).]

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Ok with the Quran quotes BUT bukhari and muslim(i'm shia remember)? I mean yes in the quran it says don't make friends with them but wishing someone is not bad is it?

hope you can enlighten me!!

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Desert Fox:

Glad you responded. The quotes by that scholar are both by Quran and Hadith. Ofcourse, you can chose to disregard the ahadith. But I am definitely interested in knowing how you interpret the quranic ayat.

Also, if you can research this topic with your shi’ite webitesor scholars, or maybe quote something from Hazrat Ali (RA) where he mentions a muslim’s relationship with non-muslims. That will be great.

I just want to educate myself how folks of different beliefs react to this ruling. I know this will be awfully hard for many of us, because greeting someone comes so naturally to us, and we always try to be polite and friends and all…

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NYAhmadi is not a Muslim, so I guess its ok for him...!

Pristine, they believe in quran but they have created their own "revealed books" written by Mirza Sahib and his colleagues.

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

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Thanks Prestine, for looking it up. It is interesting. I think, if I read it correctly, it deals with “imitating” and only the last part deals with wishing. There is a big difference. In any event, in all other religions, Western and Eastern mythological ones, most holidays (how bout over 95%) are “cultural” and not religious. E.g., for Jews, there is only one “Religious” holiday, and that is Yom Kippur, other than that, all other holidays are either ceremonial, cultural, or have either racial or social significance, and not religious (e.g., Pass-Over is not a religious holiday for your info). So the work of the scholars you have quoted only deals with a small proportion of non-mulsim holidays. (I will be surprised to know even if any of these scholars have any clue about the Humanity at large, outside of their own little universe).

But thanks. It is eye-opening. It is jarring that it is allowed in Islam to eat their food, marry their daughters, but not wish them happy holidays? You make Islam sound like a bland, dull, and blunt dagger.

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[quote]
Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
**
But thanks. It is eye-opening. It is jarring that it is allowed in Islam to eat their food, marry their daughters, but not wish them happy holidays? You make Islam sound like a bland, dull, and blunt dagger. **
[/quote]

Nyahmadi has a very BIG point.
Can someone shed light on this matter?

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When Muslim marries a non-muslims women, the non-muslim women HAS to become a Muslim first. Rest, well Allah knows best.

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V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited October 16, 2000).]

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Hey how about non-muslims wishing happy Eid or moharam to muslim friends? Is it haraam for the person who is wished it to?

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First of all, what do non-muslims know about Halal or haram?

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They have no respect to those terms, everything goes according them.

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

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I have witnessed, questioned and had confirmation otherwise.

From what I have been told it is not necessary for a female from “people of the book” to convert prior to marriage.

Nikah with ahl-e-kitaab is ja’iz. Undoubtedly Allah knows best.

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Well, it does not matter what you have been told, what matters is that; were you told with evidence from Quran or Sunnah?

If no, than you are wrong.

If yes, than bring some proof from quran or sunnah.

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Thank you.

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

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yes Muzna, I have heard this and I have also had confirmation of it. The female muslim however must convert her husband to Islam if he is not so, before she marries him.

Before you ask watcher, yes i will try to get some evidence for it, so just wait…if I cannot find anything then I shall inform you also, then maybe you can get on the case

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Muzna is absolutely right!

Anybody with a basic knowledge of Islamic teachings should know that a Muslim man is allowed to marry a woman from "the people of the book" (Christians, Jews and Sabeans) and the woman CAN retain her religion and practise her religion unhindered - that is guaranteed by Islam. ONLY the children of such a marriage must be Muslim.

What The Watcher says is only true in the case of a Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim man. In this case the man must become a Muslim, and of course the children should be Muslim.

I can look up the relevant Islamic teachings if need be...

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Ok. I can see we are going off the topic here. By the Watcher, I have looked up a scholarly opinion on the point raised by you, which I will reproduce at the end.

NYAhmadi: I am sorry, but you took it the wrong way. I don’t make “Islam sound like a bland, dull and blunt dagger”

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Come on, you know me better than that, right?

It is only that I came across this opinion, and was not sure, what other possibilities are there to this same question. I am rather hoping, you can provide me with another opinion, probably one which you agree more. It can be an opinion from any scholar, even your Ahmadiyya sect scholars too. I don’t mind. I only wish that some evidence from Quran or Sunnah.

I am treating it as an informative exercise because lots of us live in western culture, and maybe many of us don’t even know the islamic ruling on this aspect. So I hope you can provide me with another interpretation if you feel this ruling is faulty.

Now, Watcher, I searched on the internet for the question raised by you. Here is the reply from islam-qa.com

I hope that helps. If you or anyone else have another evidence to support your point-of-view, pls feel free to share it with all of us.

Adios!

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Pristine, THANKS ALLOT!

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So, if the women is from hindus or some other religion than “people of the book” than she MUST become a Muslim first? I think so.

Thanks for the info.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited October 17, 2000).]

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Prestine,

I understand the angle you are addressing the issue from but my question is, why does it have to be an aaya or hadith or a scholar's opinion that only should matter in this particular situation?

It is true that generally speaking people take the guidance from their religion for various matters of life and conduct, and loosely speaking, since primarily religion is attributed as the core source of moral guidance and behaviour, it makes sense. But there are a lot of things common people act upon based on their own sense of morality (which may or may not be derived directly from the religion; and I'm not talking about major issues, just the simple everyday practices or individual preferences in dealing with everyday situations). It seems to me that greeting somebody on his/her religious holiday or celebration is a harmless act and friendly gesture. I don't see any reason why being friendly with someone of a different religion can adversarily affect one's own faith or belief.

While people from similiar religious groups naturally tend to be more friendly and bonded with eachother, being friends with people from different religious beliefs, in my opinion, is imperative as well. How else one can see beyond the religous differences and be humanly connected with others? You can't be completely isolated from others just because you think your religion prescribes so. And I think some people tend to develop their own sense of morality or what's appropriate or not for such customs as the one under discussion. After all, if we were to look towards religion for every single answer in its strictness then what are we gonna do with our brains and hearts?

[This message has been edited by Roman (edited October 18, 2000).]

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Roman,

Thanks for your question. I had to think a while before contemplating a response to your question, which is a very valid one, I must say.

You are right, that any one can basically do whatever he/she wishes. E.g. if you are living in USA, for e.g., and you want to watch a porno movie, you can do that, regardless of whether you are a muslim, hindu, christian or jew. Right? So there is a freedom to do as you wish. Similarly a muslim can wish a non-muslim and treat it as just a friendly gesture, “harmless” as you put it, and be happy.

Islam is significantly different from any other beliefs due to one striking factor. Other beliefs including christianity, budhism, jewish beliefs, hindusim reflect a methodology to reach out to God (by whatever name) and, in cases of divine religions, to stay on the path of righteousness as prescribed by the Prophets of God.

On a purely fundamental level, Islam is not a religion but a ‘deen’, meaning ‘Islam is a way of life’. (Many people even muslims might be amused by this statement, but it is quite true.) So the right way in Islam encompasses our whole lives and not just the rituals of prayers. Every single thing a muslim does must be according to Islamic teachings. That is not to say that Islam mentions every single act we do, rather it provides guidelines on what is permissible and what is prohibited. In between there are many other states (these include recommended [mustahib], disliked [macroh] etc).

If a new situation comes up, a muslim can adopt one of the two ways. Based on his/her knowledge, determine what is permissible and what is prohibited and follow that. If he/she feels that their knowledge of Islam is poor or if a scholar is conveniently available, to get the opinion of the islamic scholar on the permissibility/prohibition.

Once this stage is over, a muslim knows what he/she can do or cannot do or should/should not do. Then it is their intelligence whether they do it or not. No one can stop them.

The basic concept is, ofcourse, that there is a hereafter, where we shall be answerable to all our deeds which we did in this world. All of us do some good deeds and some bad deeds. So if we did more good, then we will have a place in heaven and otherwise it is hell-fire.

So based on the above “brief” summation, I hope it is clear that while a muslim can do pretty much as they please still there may be an opinion by muslim scholars on the permissibility or prohibition of any act.

So while there is an opinion by muslims scholars that wishing a non-muslim for their religious ceremony is prohibited, a muslim can chose to ignore it and carry on with however they wish. We always hope, for the sake of that person, that the good deeds by that muslim will ultimately out-weigh these transgressions for a successful hereafter. Also, Allah, in His infinite mercy, can forgive all our sins, or whatever He choses to do.

Adios!

(Due to my limited knowledge of hinduism/christianity etc, if you feel that any statement attributed above to these faiths is incorrect, I hope you won’t be offended)

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So what part of “had confirmation” did you not understand?