Hiccy, you lost me with all your screeches and froths.
Here is my definition of a traditional woman: someone who believes that she is not a man's equal (neither superior nor inferior), but different. Someone who believes that there are innate differences between a man and a woman--biologically and emotionally-- and tries to celebrate those diferences rather than attack and villify them.
Chivalry and the feminst concept of man = women are mutually exclusive. If women start asserting that they are equal to men in all respects, then that leaves no room for chivalry. Chivalry will die once feminism achieves its final goal. Lamentably, it wont be the only "collateral damage"-- marriage as an institution will suffer too.
Reminder: To me, chivalry means that EXTRA courtesy unconditionally bestowed upon women (e.g., getting up when a woman enters the room), and not the general politeness which should be reciprocated and is conditional ( i will be polite if you are)
If you truly believe that you are equal to me in all respects, then expect equal treatment all the way, even when it comes to choices. If a man cannot have a choice to decide between staying at home and working, then i believe women shouldn't either. We should strive to build a society where women should be encouraged to work dangerous jobs and forced to get drafted in the miltary in equal numbers as men when there is a war in the offing.
It doesn’t surprise me at all that the voices of reason sound like nothing but screeches and appear to be accompanied by frothings to your good self. Rest assured however that I am not going to stoop to name-calling. I think this kind of discourse re: in a civilised - polite manner is what “Adults” are infamous for. I was polite when referring to you, why then did you not reciprocate?
There is confusion it seems as to the difference between feminist and feminazi and the good 'ol “traditional woman”.
Feminism is not a swear word, its not something wrong and disgusting, it is a very proper struggle for “equality” that females have had to go through (and indeed still continue to go through) in order to upturn the conventions that good old tradition imposed. The term equality here is perhaps the crux of the matter. By equality a feminist is not as stupid or as presumptuous as to claim no “inherent” differences between man and women - indeed every time she looks at herself she is reminded of that, rather wondrous, fact.. but rather she demands an equality in worth:
dictionary.com noun b) likeness or sameness in quality, power, status, or degree.
I cannot see how, based on this there is no room for chivalry - unless of course the chivalry brings along a superior attitude based on nothing but an accident of birth. To me chivalry is an extension of common decency and right and proper conduct - something that is distinctly lacking in todays society. Chivalry, may I remind you was a code of conduct for a gentleman valid for things beyond the discourse of the two sexes. It was equally relevant between two men - even at point of war.
Why does a Feminists demand for equality in worth then exclude her from such treatment?
A Feminazi however is a creature in its own right. In this case the male of the species is vilified and degraded at every opportunity, a woman is seen as “better” (again by accident of birth) and there is a marked bitterness and viciousness about her persona that can only be explained by either a) psychosis b) a bad experience.
I agree that in this instance to extend a hand would be beyond most people. I do however believe that this is not the case with people who’s moral standing and mannerisms transcend reciprocation.
As a feminist - a person who believes in equality in worth, not equality in physicality (this is a stupid impossibility) and so such - a traditionalist is equally as vile. The traditional woman thought of herself as lesser than the man in Worth - she agreed that her place was in the house only and that in no fashion could she be the mans equal, including intellectually. Although this may be more suited to a mans ego - a real man in my opinion would soon become fed up of such fawning and such a low self opinion. Although I see the logic in being overtly polite only to a person who sees you as a superior and treats you a god - I disagree that these are the only people to wards whom a chivalrous attitude should be adopted.
It has also been noted that traditional women sneer upon women who want to be equal in worth - they even actively put such ladies down- it is for this reason that they are not so well liked by the general female populace - who at this point of history - largely (in the west) come under the banner of feminist.
I hope that has cleared things up.
By the by:The label that is so quaintly named “reminder” is so obviously a disclaimer. That, as you well know makes all the difference.
yeh i wouldnt want him paying for me. but i never let anyone pay, guy or girl..i dont let them pay their half. i snatch the bill away and fight over it, and embarrass the other person so much that they finally get scared and let me have it
I didn't read all the replies, i lost track of the topic somewhere on the second page i think. But here's wot i think about the original topic...usually it's guys who ask the girls out on the first date...so, the guy shud pay...but if a girl asks the guy out then she shud pay, or at least offer.
On our first date, my fiance paid...he asked me out, it was valentine's...wotever...after that, whenever we went out it was mostly him who paid...i offered all the time, but he wudn't let me pay...eventually, as months went by we both wud pay...money is something, thank God we never fight about...who has it, uses it...we have always, considered both of our incomes as "ours" therefore it doesn't even matter who pays...and i mean this started very early on, like after a month since that first date...so i think it depends on the couple, and how they see each other responsible financially.
As far as other courtesies go...i'm not a mushy type of person, and he picked up on that early. He is the romantic one...so i have never liked it when a guy opened my car door for me...that doesn't make me a feminist, i just don't like to be babied i guess...holding doors open whilst walkin in/out of buildings is different...we all do that for everyone (hopefully)...but the car thing seems idiotic to me, cos i am quite capable of opening it myself, plus it just wastes time :p
If i was going on the first date i would for sure try to pay it all myself.... if the guy wasn't ready to accept it then sure i will let him pay all ... But i think a guy asking for a girl to pay half of the dinner price .. that would be really really CHEAP :)
Let's face it, for some odd reason, we (us desi guys) LOVE to pay for everything for the girls.
I think you should discuss with your date (or the person you are hanging out with) about that, I don't think he/she will mind.
PCG: only if u knew how to read properly u wouldve noticed that i wasnt asking for dating tips hun… i had this debate with a female friend about this, so just wanted to get some opinions from others here except u!
now please no one askwhy i am not a member of the feminazi club:D:rotfl:…
