Re: First copy of the Qur’an
Well, FYI, for Muslims, the Quran is the infallible word of God…
Re: First copy of the Qur’an
Thanks, I think I’ve got that by now. I never challenged it, I only pointed out that it is an article of faith.
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
all this to agree that it is a matter of faith. Good boys!! everyone is right...
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
Answer to the original question:
Musaylamah was an imposter who called himself a nabee, eventually there was a battle between him and Abou Bakr. The Muslims won, but many lives were lost.
After the battle, Umar went and told Abou Bakr, that many hafiz were lost, and the Quran should be put down on paper - into one complete book, for fear that more hafiz might die, and portions of the Quran might be lost. Abou Bakr was hesitant, since it had not been done so in the Prophet (SAW) 's time. But Umar pressed him until he agreed. So Zayd ibn Thalib was sent for, because he had been asked by the Prophet (SAW) with the writing of the Quran during his life time. When asked however, he was also outraged at first, but eventually it dawned on him that the Quran needed to be written down into one complete book.
Zayd was very particular. He would only accept parchments which were written down during th Prophet's (SAW) time. He double checked these by people who had memorized the Quran by heart. Ubayy ibn Ka'b assisted him.
I'll read (and maybe respond) to the side tracked comments later.
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
You know, if you look at it literally, we should really be looking for the original parchments, skin, and bone, etc that was used to write down the verses as they were transmitted during the Prophet's time.
So basically what you have is this process in chronological order of time:
- parchment/human memory/skin/bones/etc --> 2. Abu Bakr's compilation of the Quran --> 3. Uthman's compilation of the Quran.
There is theoretically no difference between 1 and 2, otherwise there would have been a massive uproar by the population and this didn't happen. The majority confirmed that Abu Bakr's compilation is correct. The shias claim that certain verses were left out/added, but their movement was in such a minority, and frankly, I have yet to see first hand proof of what Ali (R) himself thought about the Shia movement (i.e. if he himself did think that it was his God-given right to rule and that only his progeny should rule - afterall, he was very cooperative and active in the governments of the other caliphs).
The difference between 2 and 3 is theoretically that of dialect. And accent marks.
Now in the case of 2 --> 3, its hard to verify that only accent and dialect was changed since we don't have the 2. What is being called the original.
But agar dekha jaaye tho, actually # 1 is original. So even if #2 had not been destroyed, one could still question if #2 actually followed from #1.
And it would be impossible to verify from today's standpoint if #2 followed from #1, since #1 either died or decayed. Unless if there are items in preservation (which I'm not sure of).
The only way to have faith that #3 followed from #2, and that #2 followed from #1 is that there was pretty much unanimous agreement over it. No one got up and said, hey Abu Bakr fiddled with verses or that Uthman fiddled with verses, except the Shia (I'm using present-day terms as they're used). And the verses the Shias think were left out or changed are ones that wouldn't logically fit into the framework of Islam. Islam was simply not a monarchy. I don't think the Rasul really did care if Ali led or not after him, otherwise, he would have made it damn clear way ahead of time. And he didn't. And monarchy says that one family is fit to rule, and no other family. And the Prophet was clearly against this, since the ruling family of the time, the Quraish, were as corrupt as could be. So, I doubt the Prophet would have been in favor of a monarchy-system. He would probably be in favor of an election-based system. Or representative system, where everyone's input would be used to decide on leadership.)
And FURTHERMORE, whether #1 follows from God's decree would also be questioned by doubters anyway.
So, even though in a way I'm concerned about #2's disappearance. I'm coming to the conclusion that it matters little anyway, since those that want to doubt will doubt even if #2 did exist.
And to a certain extent, yes, there is a leap of faith involved. You have to make a leap of faith, even if you lived at that time of the Prophet, that the Prophet was recieving revelation in the first place. So, to believe, its always going to be a leap of faith. There is no logical a priori way of getting to the belief that God exists and this is His message to us. You just have to look at it and see if it makes sense. See if it fits in with human behavior and nature.
I think it does, so I'll keep believing in it. And if others want to have doubts, fine - but its there. The Message is there, and if you chose not to believe it for whatever reason, go right ahead. You'll probably doubt no matter how much proof is shown to you.
Re: First copy of the Qur’an
I have yet to see first handproof that Shia claim that certain verses of the Quran were left out and added.
regards,
bob
Re: First copy of the Qur’an
Zayd ibn Thabit
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
^ My apologies. You are right. It was Thaabit not Thalib. My memory is getting rusty!
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
Oh dont try to be smart with me. I knew the answer anyway so ha. :D
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
**PRESENT QUR’AN IS NOT THE ORIGINAL BUT THAT OF USMAN (r.a.)
Question:**
There were many versions of the Qur’an all of which were burnt by Usman (r.a.) except for one. Therefore is it not true that the present Qur’an is the one compiled by Usman (r.a.) and not the original revelation of God?
** Answer:**
One of the most common myths about the Qur’an, is that Usman (r.a.), the third Caliph of Islam authenticated and compiled one Qur’an, from a large set of mutually contradicting copies. The Qur’an, revered as the Word of Allah (swt) by Muslims the world over, is the same Qur’an as the one revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). It was authenticated and written under his personal supervision. We will examine the roots of the myth which says that Usman (r.a.) had the Qur’an authenticated.
** 1. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself supervised and authenticated the written texts of the Qur’an**
Whenever the Prophet received a revelation, he would first memorize it himself and later declare the revelation and instruct his Companions (R.A. – Radhi Allahu Taala Anhu) – May Allah be pleased with him who would also memorize it. The Prophet would immediately ask the scribes to write down the revelation he had received, and he would reconfirm and recheck it himself. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was an Ummi who could not read and write. Therefore, after receiving each revelation, he would repeat it to his Companions. They would write down the revelation, and he would recheck by asking them to read what they had written. If there was any mistake, the Prophet would immediately point it out and have it corrected and rechecked. Similarly he would even recheck and authenticate the portions of the Qur’an memorized by the Companions. In this way, the complete Qur’an was written down under the personal supervision of the prophet (pbuh).
** 2. Order and sequence of Qur’an divinely inspired**
The complete Qur’an was revealed over a period of 22½ years portion by portion, as and when it was required. The Qur’an was not compiled by the Prophet in the chronological order of revelation. The order and sequence of the Qur’an too was Divinely inspired and was instructed to the Prophet by Allah (swt) through archangel Jibraeel. Whenever a revelation was conveyed to his companions, the Prophet would also mention in which surah (chapter) and after which ayat (verse) this new revelation should fit.
Every Ramadhaan all the portions of the Qur’an that had been revealed, including the order of the verses, were revised and reconfirmed by the Prophet with archangel Jibraeel. During the last Ramadhaan, before the demise of the Prophet, the Qur’an was rechecked and reconfirmed twice.
It is therefore clearly evident that the Qur’an was compiled and authenticated by the Prophet himself during his lifetime, both in the written form as well as in the memory of several of his Companions.
** 3. Qur’an copied on one common material**
The complete Qur’an, along with the correct sequence of the verses, was present during the time of the Prophet (pbuh). The verses however, were written on separate pieces, scrapes of leather, thin flat stones, leaflets, palm branches, shoulder blades, etc. After the demise of the prophet, Abu Bakr (r.a.), the first caliph of Islam ordered that the Qur’an be copied from the various different materials on to a common material and place, which was in the shape of sheets. These were tied with strings so that nothing of the compilation was lost.
** 4. Usman (r.a.) made copies of the Qur’an from the original manuscript
**
Many Companions of the Prophet used to write down the revelation of the Qur’an on their own whenever they heard it from the lips of the Prophet. However what they wrote was not personally verified by the Prophet and thus could contain mistakes. All the verses revealed to the Prophet may not have been heard personally by all the Companions. There were high possibilities of different portions of the Qur’an being missed by different Companions. This gave rise to disputes among Muslims regarding the different contents of the Qur’an during the period of the third Caliph Usman (r.a.).
Usman (r.a.) borrowed the original manuscript of the Qur’an, which was authorized by the beloved Prophet (pbuh), from Hafsha (may Allah be pleased with her), the Prophet’s wife. Usman (r.a.) ordered four Companions who were among the scribes who wrote the Qur’an when the Prophet dictated it, led by Zaid bin Thabit (r.a.) to rewrite the script in several perfect copies. These were sent by Usman (r.a.) to the main centres of Muslims.
There were other personal collections of the portions of the Qur’an that people had with them. These might have been incomplete and with mistakes. Usman (r.a.) only appealed to the people to destroy all these copies which did not match the original manuscript of the Qur’an in order to preserve the original text of the Qur’an. Two such copies of the copied text of the original Qur’an authenticated by the Prophet are present to this day, one at the museum in Tashkent in erstwhile Soviet Union and the other at the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul, Turkey.
** 5. Diacritical marks were added for non-Arabs**
The original manuscript of the Qur’an does not have the signs indicating the vowels in Arabic script. These vowels are known as tashkil, zabar, zair, paish in Urdu and as fatah, damma and qasra in Arabic. The Arabs did not require the vowel signs and diacritical marks for correct pronunciation of the Qur’an since it was their mother tongue. For Muslims of non-Arab origin, however, it was difficult to recite the Qur’an correctly without the vowels. These marks were introduced into the Quranic script during the time of the fifth ‘Umayyad’ Caliph, Malik-ar-Marwan (66-86 Hijri/685-705 C.E.) and during the governorship of Al-Hajaj in Iraq.
Some people argue that the present copy of the Qur’an that we have along with the vowels and the diacritical marks is not the same original Qur’an that was present at the Prophet’s time. But they fail to realize that the word ‘Qur’an’ means a recitation. Therefore, the preservation of the recitation of the Qur’an is important, irrespective of whether the script is different or whether it contains vowels. If the pronunciation and the Arabic is the same, naturally, the meaning remains the same too.
6. Allah Himself has promised to guard the Qur’an
Allah has promised in the Qur’an :
** "We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly Guard it (from corruption)."
[Al-Qur’an 15:9]
I hope this will help you.
**