http://hala.freewebspace.com/Quran_othman.htm
Situated at Istanbul, Turkey.
(Copied during the reign of third Caliph)
Does anyone know where the original Qur’an is?
Re: First copy of the Qur’an
What do you mean when you say Original Quran?
do you mean the first ever written copy cuz Quran is among us in its originality and totality..
or do you mean to say that what we have is a certified copy of the original one which is up in Loh-e-Mahfooz/kitaabum Maknoon ?
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
I'm talking about the compilation that Hadhrat Abu Bakr (Radhi Allahu Anhu) made who then passed it onto his daughter for safe keeping.
It was the third Caliph who then made atleast 2 main copies of this original Qur'an which can be found in Istanbul, Turkey and Tashkent, Uzbekistan today. From these two copies we offcourse have the modern day copies of the Qur'an, but where is the Holy Qur'anthat was written down during the time of Hadhrat Abu Bakr (Radhi Allahu Anhu)?
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
hm you guys are on to something here - for something muslims take so literally, how do you know this is what Allah said? part or whole of it could be quite corrupted by stuff the mullahs slipped into it over centuries.
Re: First copy of the Qur’an
Because if you look at the Quran from the time of Muhammad:saw: which was written on the skin of Camel to a Quran printed by Taaj Company Limited of Pakistan.. I challenge you find a difference of a single letter…
Re: First copy of the Qur’an
I am not sure we need to make such challenges. First, because we dont have the original on the skin of Camel anymore to prove it hasnt changed. Those texts were written more than 1400 years ago on perishable mediums. In addition, Quran grave discovered in Yemen contains copies with slight variations in spellings and verse organization. Even the Taj company would unintentionally, print Qurans with mistakes, before Arabic type writers were invented.
The reason we have so much faith in the text of our Quran is because Mohammad p had established a political empire that was ruled by his disciples, who conquered the Eastern Roman Empire and the Persian Empire before their death. Thus the Jews and Christians of the region are witnesses to Mohammad and his companions ruling them. The authority and knowledge of the disciples of Mohammad is undisputed due to their known link to Mohammad. Thus, even Sunni and Shia, inspite of their differences, believe in the same text of the Quran. In the case of Jesus the link between the scribe of the text of the NT and Jesus is a little murky. It is further complicated by the fact that there are significant variations.
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
Personally, I dont think the text has changed, except yes maybe in verse organization (but that's no big deal, as long as the verses themselves aren't changing; afterall, the verses were organized into book-form by man anyway).
The reason is because I dont think that the companions of the prophet would have the guts to do anything liek changing around text - because there are other companions who would check them. And they did check each other. Just look at the fights between Aisha (R) and Ali (R).
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
The fight between, Aisha (rah) and Ali (rah) was not becuase one of those two was at fault and the other decided to sort him out. So i dont think that example would work in the situation you'r talkin about.
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
so you really don't have any original so can't really claim this is the word of your God.
Shouldn't prevent you from learning and following the good stuff from it.
Problem is only when the terrorist jihadis start quoting it as justification for their crimes. Imagine...they quote the same book that you want to establish as the word of your God for killing innocent children. Some sobs used it as reason for forcing people to convert against their will...some sobs used it as reason to destroy idols that belonged to others.
Question is how will you reconcile word of God is Koran and root of evil arguements?
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
^
beta jee, it is universally agreed upon that Quran has been unchanged since its revelation....
not only muslims, but non-muslim research has also led to the same conclusion....
so u dont come up with ur own theories without justification to state otherwise....
unless ofcourse u can prove what u r saying....
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
Atlantis
"Problem is only when the terrorist jihadis start quoting it as justification for their crimes"
would you like to explain or tell us which "terrorist jihadis" has qute what from quran to justification for their crimes?
and what about these christens who killed thousends of innocent children in the name of war aganist terrorism in Afganistan and Iraq why you dont consider it as terrorism.
Re: First copy of the Qur’an
that’d be quite interesting to me - I am part of the universe and I have not agreed to any such conclusion…
but go ahead and tell us how you learnt ‘it is universally agreed’. You can’t.
even more importantly, why do you think it is the word of God?
Re: First copy of the Qur’an
I don’t think I need to explain anything that obvious and public - take your pick of Al Jazeera throat slit videos, mullacracy pronouncements, osama/atta/gen.Mahmoud Ahmad (a pak general) conspiracy that led to 9/11, any of the suicide bomber exploits…they all are easy proof.
And did I ever tell you I don’t consider it terrorism if christian kill civilians? That’d be terrorism also.
Question here is not about terrorists. It is about Koran, how easy it is to use ir for any purpose, how easy it’d have been to corrupt the word of God and have gullibles eat it all up!
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
I didn't question the authenticity of the Qur'an. When the Qur'an was compiled during the time of Hadhrat Abu Bakr (Radhi Allahu Anhu), thousand of Hafiz-ul-Qur'an and hundereds of scribes were brought to put the Holy book togther.
The same thing happened when the third Caliph made 2 copies of the Qur'an.
The other thing is, every Ramadhan, during the time of the Prophet, the entire Qur'an of what had been revealed so far used to be recited by the Prophet in the Masjid infront of the Companions and other people.
Finally, the chain of Qur'an recitors (memorising it by heart) has never been broken for over 14 centuries. During the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), he sent many companions to foreign lands to invite them to Islam, they had no written bok with them but had memorised it by heart (they were also Hafiz-ul-Qur'an).... still to this day, all these foreign lands have got the same Qur'an. So the authenticity of the Qur'an cannot be disputed.
All that I asked was where is the first compilation of the Quran? (and I don't expect the non-muslims to have the answer to this).
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
first of there is no proof of any thing of what you have said about 9/11 and all other stuff.
its your words aganist my word
i say all of these things has been done by Americans them self.
The question what i m asking you is which part of Quran you are talking about which can be used for terrorism???
Re: First copy of the Qur’an
Your question touches upon an extremely sensitive issue, rarely discussed and in many cases considered a taboo subject.
If we were to rephrase your question to the “first officially compiled Quranic manuscript”, then the answer wud be that it was most likely destroyed once the third Khalifa finished his compilation and restoration of Quranic manuscripts.
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
fatguru - I've never heard of the topic considered being taboo or sensitive. I always thought that the first compilation of the Quran is still around. Somewhere in museum in the middle east.
At least that is what my white friends who have lived in the UAE tell me. And that is also what I know from other people as well. (not that those are great sources)
Why would the first manuscript be "destroyed" after the compilation/restoration done by 3rd caliph?
You're not supposed to destroy Qurans - I thought that much was common sense.
Re: First copy of the Qur’an
During the life of the Prophet (saas) (570-632 CE)
The Prophet (saas) used to recite the Qur’an before angel Jibreel (Gabriel) once every Ramadan, but he recited it twice (in the same order we have today) in the last Ramadan before his death. Jibreel also taught the Prophet (saas) the seven modes of recitation.
Each verse received was recited by the Prophet, and its location relative to other verses and surahs was identified by him.
The verses were written by scribes, selected by the Prophet, on any suitable object - the leaves of trees, pieces of wood, parchment or leather, flat stones, and shoulder blades. Scribes included Ali Ibn Abi Talib, Mu’awiyah Ibn Abi Sufyan, Ubey Ibn Ka’ab, Zayed Ibn Thabit.
Some of the companions wrote the Qur’an for their own use.
Several hundred companions memorized the Qur’an by heart.
During the caliphate of Abu Bakr (632-634 CE)
Umar Ibn Al-Khattab urged Abu Bakr to preserve and compile the Qur’an. This was prompted after the battle of Yamamah, where heavy casualties were suffered among the reciters who memorized the Qur’an.
Abu Bakr entrusted Zayed Ibn Thabit with the task of collecting the Qur’an. Zayed had been present during the last recitation of the Qur’an by the Prophet to Angel Jibreel (Gabriel).
Zayed, with the help of the companions who memorized and wrote verses of the Qur’an, accomplished the task and handed Abu Bakr the first authenticated copy of the Qur’an. The copy was kept in the residence of Hafsah, daughter of Umar and wife of the Prophet.
During the caliphate of Uthman (644-656 CE)
Uthman ordered Zayed Ibn Thabit, Abdullah Ibn Al Zubayr, Saeed Ibn Al-Aas, and Abdur-Rahman Ibn Harith Ibn Hisham to make perfect copies of the authenticated copy kept with Hafsa. This was due to the rapid expansion of the Islamic state and concern about differences in recitation.
Copies were sent to various places in the Muslim world. The original copy was returned to Hafsa, and a copy was kept in Madinah.
Three stages of dotting and diacritization
Dots were put as syntactical marks by Abu Al-Aswad Al Doaly, during the time of Mu’awiya Ibn Abi Sufian (661-680 CE).
The letters were marked with different dotting by Nasr Ibn Asem and Hayy ibn Ya’amor, during the time of Abd Al-Malek Ibn Marawan (685-705 CE).
A complete system of diacritical marks (damma, fataha, kasra) was invented by Al Khaleel Ibn Ahmad Al Faraheedy (d. 786 CE).
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/compilationbrief.html
I found this.
Re: First copy of the Qur'an
From renaissance.com.pk
Question: What is the oldest written record of the Qur’an? How old is it? Do we have a complete written parchment/ paper/ anything Qur’an from the time of 'Uthman (rta) or the Prophet Muhammad (sws)?
Answer: The first manuscript of the Qur'an compiled by the Prophet (sws) was copied and recopied by thousands of his companions in his time and this process is going on ever since with millions and millions of copies coming into existence. Once a large number of its copies had been made and circulated among the Muslims, the original Qur'an compiled by the Prophet(sws) was wisely destroyed by Marwan Ibn Hakam the Umayyid Caliph lest it should become a source of trial and commotion for the Ummah. He had ordered Abdullah Ibn 'Umar (rta) to recover it from Hafsah (rta) the Prophet's wife with whom it remained after the Prophet's death. It was brought to his court, where it was torn apart by him since it was not needed any more.
The countless copies of the original Qur'an which today lie with the Ummah are the copies of the original Qur'an as is testified by the consensus of the Ummah in every subsequent period of time. Nothing can be said with certainty about the oldest surviving copy of the Qur'an -- and in the light of the above mentioned facts, perhaps discussion on this topic would only be an academic exercise.
Its kind of weird. I came across another site that said it was accidentally burned in some fire. That site called it "the Will of God".
Something seems weird here.
Re: First copy of the Qur’an
This makes the issue clearer, although its hard to trust stuff from the net.
I just looked it up. In Surah 9, the last two verses are controversial.
Uthman’s final compilation of the Quran includes these two verses. Its PROPOSED that the original one that was destroyed does not have these two verses. Apparently, Ali (R) might have been really against these two verses.
The reason why people MIGHT have made up these verses (although it can’t be verified they did of course at this point) is because the verses talk specifically of the Prophet, and are meant to praise him. I dont see anything unIslamic about them, except maybe that they might be putting the Prophet on a higher pedestal. I’ve always been against people who idolize the Prophet, since that kind of thing is not permitted. Although muslims still do think he’s infallible and that he was a perfect being. These verses don’t suggest that, but they might be highlighting the Prophet’s importance.
Of course, if they’re verses that never were transmitted from Gibril to the Prophet, and that some scribes made up, this is a grave sin. I’m not too worried about it, because its not like the verses say “Go stone women” or something horrendous. But I’m sure that the people who did tamper with the verses, IF THEY DID, will get their sazaa. Because its probably the most ridiculous act to put words in God’s mouth.
Here are the verses from my translation - By Abdullah Yusuf Ali:
“Verse 128: Now Hath come unto you an Apostle from amongst Yourselves; it grieves him that ye should perish: Ardently anxious is he over you: To the believers is he most kind and merciful”.
"Verse 129: But if they turn away, Say: “God sufficeth me: There is no God but He: On Him is my trust, - He the Lord of the Throne Supreme!”
Foot notes:
Verse 129 is basically God instructing the Rasul on how to respond when someone rejects his message.
Pretty harmless verses, as far as I’m concerned. Like I said, its not something I would be too concerned about, because the implications are not negative. Its not like the verses are teaching us to do something wrong.
At the most, if they were falsely made up by scholars, then well - I’m sure God will take care of that business.