First beard, then schools and now this..

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

Theek hai, I will not respond.. Everyone’s after me for no apparent reason. Any time I say something I am issued a stern warning or someone’s starts bad mouthing me. God knows whats wrong with this forum. Listen up guys 'n gals, facts are facts and sometimes bitter. Seems the forum’s been hostage to the Secularists and so called “reformists”- so much so that they dictate whats right and whats “appropriate”. They want to change everything with Pakistan- without realizing we have had a pretty decent journey so far for almost 60 years since our inception. When I was in Karachi, some people would always talk about Bollywood stars, Why don’t we talk about Shaan and Saima or Nadeem? People want to be attached to the Indians more than anybody else.. some have had even cultivated Hindi accents watching zillion of Bollywood sick flicks.. Whats up with us these days? Why do gals refuse to wear niqaab and guys refuse to grow beard? Why ppl refuse to offer namaaz even once? Even Punjabis on the forum behave sooo differently than they would in Punjab.. :grumpy:

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

I want to talk about Saima with you moin :) What should we focus on though? Shes a fine Punjaban isnt she?

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

Spock,

Saima is actually of Pakhtun heritage. She just happens to act in Punjabi films. Pushto films prefer bulky women :hehe:

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

moin.ul.atiq nay farmaya

** They want to change everything with Pakistan- without realizing we have had a pretty decent journey so far for almost 60 years since our inception. **

pretty decent journey, hmm lets see, lost half the country in bloody civil war, lynched a prime minister, assassinated another, how many martial laws, care taker govts and all.

When I was in Karachi, some people would always talk about Bollywood stars,

you are saying this as if bollywood movies are not watched in the rest of the country.

** Why don’t we talk about Shaan and Saima or Nadeem? **

why? because as bad as bollywood is, lollywood is a damn joke compared to it, and forget about pashto and punjabi movies..

aside from galiaan to producers for crappy movies, talking about how bad our actors are, what else is there to tal about?

**People want to be attached to the Indians more than anybody else.. **

yep..that unfortunately is true for many ppl regardless of which province they are from.

**some have had even cultivated Hindi accents watching zillion of Bollywood sick flicks.. **

many people had hindi accents already as they immigrated from India.

**Whats up with us these days? Why do gals refuse to wear niqaab and guys refuse to grow beard? Why ppl refuse to offer namaaz even once? **

wgat makes you think that this is ‘up’ these days. were all women in niqab in the 80s and did everyone have a beard when zia was in power? how about before that during bhuttos era, or during ayub’s era.

Even Punjabis on the forum behave sooo differently than they would in Punjab.. :grumpy:

Maybe you are only meeting a certain type of punjabi in punjab, which does not surprise me.

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

jaanBaaz is right.. Saima is Pashtun.. I guess she's married to Syed Noor. I have seen her in person.. she looks fatter than what she's potrayed on celluloid. Yara, Assi tay Sultan Rahi tay Anjuman de pankhay hain.

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

It aint that bad as you make it sound like sir! Remember Pakistan was born amidst religious riots and trains full of dead-bodies coming from Bharat.. A ravaged country was born on promises.. To deliver the promises, a country needs forsightness, and courage.. some of the early leaders like Liaqat did not lay that foundation.. he created rift among groups- until being assasinated he was busy building his "vote bank" and foundation- others who followed him carried his bakwas legacy and were busy fire-fighting and convincing the masses. This is the difference between countries like US whose founding fathers like Washington had vision. Quaid did have vision but he died soon after independence..

They are but others tend to follow what Karachi does.. just like rest of the US always watches NYC, Karachi has to lead by example for rest of the country.. Expectation are always high of Karachi.

There are as many good movies in Lollywood as in Bollywood.. I liked Moosa Khan, Aansoo Billa, Border. and Maula Jatt will always be a classic. Some of the early Punjabi movies are good too. One just have to switch from Bollywood- once for and all! Even South Indians in India dont watch as much Bollywood crap as Pakistanis do.

Atleast Lollywood aint about India-Bashing.

I thought they were supposed to have Urdu accent

That's because Zia could not realize his dream of creating a "Pure" state completely.. Had he been alive to this day, he would have surely created a nice Islamic state where every men would sport a beard and women cover themselves up.

Thats not true.. Since I am Punjabi, I am closer to them than any other group.. but I have friends from every province..

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

moin.ul.atiq nay farmaya

** It aint that bad as you make it sound like sir! **

and it aint as good as you make it sound like, I just gave you a diff perspective, at some point in time we need to move ahead. ns yes there was tremendous development in Pakistan right after independence, I know how ministries and public agencies ran without supplies and offices and ppl workign under tres, its a fact

*Remember Pakistan was born amidst religious riots and trains full of dead-bodies coming from Bharat.. *

Kinda goes against your previous argument that others did not give any sacrifices for pakistan. People who were in areas that were not going to become Pakistan yet joined teh struggle knew that they were doing so at a high risk to themselves.

*A ravaged country was born on promises.. To deliver the promises, a country needs forsightness, and courage.. some of the early leaders like Liaqat did not lay that foundation.. he created rift among groups- until being assasinated he was busy building his "vote bank" and foundation- others who followed him carried his bakwas legacy and were busy fire-fighting and convincing the masses. *

So who did the right thing? wen was Liaquat ali khan assassinated, and what has happened since then?

They are but others tend to follow what Karachi does.. just like rest of the US always watches NYC, Karachi has to lead by example for rest of the country.. Expectation are always high of Karachi.

so..ppl in other parts of the country are copycats of karachi folks who are busy copying bollywood?

when you talk all this about bollywood influence and what nots, could you go and shut down shahi mohalla, or is that in your view a really islamic place?

and then are lollywood movies really islamic

you cant have it both ways bro.

There are as many good movies in Lollywood as in Bollywood.. I liked Moosa Khan, Aansoo Billa, Border. and Maula Jatt will always be a classic. Some of the early Punjabi movies are good too. One just have to switch from Bollywood- once for and all! Even South Indians in India dont watch as much Bollywood crap as Pakistanis do.

lets have a vote here shall we? are lollywood movis better than bollywood.

I thought they were supposed to have Urdu accent

right and urdu accent could be hyderabadi, lukhnawi, dehelvi etc.

That's because Zia could not realize his dream of creating a "Pure" state completely.. Had he been alive to this day, he would have surely created a nice Islamic state where every men would sport a beard and women cover themselves up.

Zia could not realize his dream of creating a pure state bcompletely**????
he did nto even get it 5% right, what are you talking about.

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

Moin-Ul-Atiq----- sahab
I've read all of ur posts in this thread....i must say
agar app jaisey do char humain aur mil gaye to allah he malik hai pakistan ka.....

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

Its exageration of what actually happend.. but yes, there were problems and the whole reasons was that because Bharat got everything Britishers left including funds to run govt. and cities and we were left with practically nothing.. Leaders who assumed power (except Quaid) were busy establishing their vote bank and looting. You should appreciate that we have come a long way since then... We can boast of a much developed city (Karachi) compared to dirty Mumbai, a much modern capital Islamabad compared to New Delhi.

Trains full of dead bodies predominantely came from Indian Punjab. Almost 1/3 of Pakistani Punjab is contributed by the Indian Punjab. My theory is that Non -Punjabis who migrated to Pakistan did so because 1) they were being kicked out of largely Hindu Bharat and they did not have any option and/or 2) They saw oppurtunity to spread their wings in the new muslim homeland- they thought they would not face segreration as they would've in Bharat OR they can excel faster as teachers/engineers/executive in a largely argarian society. See, if you are a mahajir, I've to tell you and everyone else that I have nothing else Mahajirs at all- All I say/advise is that when you migrate to a new country, try to become one of them and NOT try to create a country within the country.

My family and biradri never celebrated his passing but then he didn't do a good job while in power... The same can't be said for Quaid.. Everyone knows how "capable" he was.. he was even opposed to our brothers Afghans coming to our country when he himself migrated from UP/Bihar. Haris Bhai, please don't give me another warning as I am speaking my heart out. I don't know why we have to be so politically correct on this forum and can't express our shiqwe-giley. Liaqat's job was like an opening batsman. You know what happens when the opening batsman fails in Cricket.. Others who follow are under tremendoius pressure to perform and with a high degree of probability they fail..

not quite.. they respect Karachites and want them to lead by example.. just like younger siblings tend to look towards older ones..

I am totally agains Shahi Mohalla/Heera Mandi and even seductive mujras that are sooo popular among the youths.. All religious scholars are against them. That aint Islamic place and thats one of the reasons why we need to examine our youth.. I want the society free from violence and sex

Most of the guppies here are either Bharatis, Bharati supporters or imposters.. no doubt Bollywood would win by miles..

Why should there be these accents when Delhi, Hyderabad and Lucknow were left by Urdu ppl long back and the first generation urdu-speakers haven't even seen these cities. I would welcome Urdu in Karachi and Lahori accents over these bharati cities accents any day.

[quote=Fraudz]

Zia could not realize his dream of creating a pure state **

Zia could have gotten it right.. he was busy with Afghanistan, and then Bharat, and making our defense strong.. he never quite get a chance to set things right.. sad he died before he could do that :(**

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

tuada wada shukriya, but I'm sorry I dont know you? Are you Indian or Pakistani? Urdu tu koi bhi bol sakta hai, par dil jiksa barra ho, wohi sachcha Pakistani!

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

moin.ul.atiq

** You should appreciate that we have come a long way since then... **

sure...but not long enough, the growth was amazing in early days, akistan actually regressed after the 60s and only in parts fo Nawaz tenure and Now is it back gainging some momentum.

read up on stats and see year by year metrics and see for yourself.

**
Trains full of dead bodies predominantely came from Indian Punjab. Almost 1/3 of Pakistani Punjab is contributed by the Indian Punjab. My theory is that Non -Punjabis who migrated to Pakistan did so because 1) they were being kicked out of largely Hindu Bharat and they did not have any option and/or 2) They saw oppurtunity to spread their wings in the new muslim homeland- they thought they would not face segreration as they would've in Bharat OR they can excel faster as teachers/engineers/executive in a largely argarian society. See, if you are a mahajir, I've to tell you and everyone else that I have nothing else Mahajirs at all- All I say/advise is that when you migrate to a new country, try to become one of them and NOT try to create a country within the country.**

People who were in non muslim majority areas supported teh struggle for Pakistan at great personal danger to themselves and many of them.your theory is bogus and baseless.

Lets not forget the atrocities commited by the people here...in Punjab as well. the massacres were not one sided.

as far as someone migrating to a new country and trying to be one of them...every person who migrated came with that intention. I guess many did not realize that the idiots in this new counry thought they were punjabi, balochi, pathan and sindhi first and Pakistani second.

Everyoen is free to celebrate their identity and their roots whether they are from a region that is part of Pakistan now or not. but they have to be Pakistani first. sadly I see too many idiots who dont think that way.

I am totally agains Shahi Mohalla/Heera Mandi and even seductive mujras that are sooo popular among the youths.. All religious scholars are against them. That aint Islamic place and thats one of the reasons why we need to examine our youth.. I want the society free from violence and sex

the shahi mohalla was doing brisk business in Zia's era, so much for his islamization. wah ji wah kya mard e momin tha.. aik mohalla bulldoze nahen kara saka...shabaash aisay islami nizaam ki

Most of the guppies here are either Bharatis, Bharati supporters or imposters.. no doubt Bollywood would win by miles..

Untrue, is your completely unfounded baseless assumption.

*Why should there be these accents when Delhi, Hyderabad and Lucknow were left by Urdu ppl long back and the first generation urdu-speakers haven't even seen these cities. I would welcome Urdu in Karachi and Lahori accents over these bharati cities accents any day. *

and who do they learn languages from? their teachers and their parents, where are the teachers and parents from, where did they grow up. And please.. urdu needs to be spoken in proper urdu style, karachi and lahori accents to urdu are like kaloo and redneck accents are to english.

there can eb argument whether the propr urdu accent i lukhnawai, dehelvi or whatver, but surely that peen peen peen or the baaan baan baan that passes for karach or lahore urdu..is not the proper accent.

Zia could have gotten it right.. he was busy with Afghanistan, and then Bharat, and making our defense strong.. he never quite get a chance to set things right.. sad he died before he could do that :(

surprisingly we are not to extend the same courtesy to Musharraf that he was busy with 9/11 aftrermath. although he has delivered more in 8 years than Zia did in 11. and that..is a fact.

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

Sure I agree with you.. but blaming everything on the premier aint quite right.. they are zillion of variables that control the growth.. The premier has a say on a lot of things but can't do much either... Things are improving now is not because of mushy boy.. huge amount of US aid is coming every year.. Mushy can't even manage that well... plus, expatriat population has growth expotentially over years.. they pump in $$ every year to the Pakistani economy.. Kashmir conflict is lying low and there haven't been any wars with Bharat for over 36 years.. all these factors are fuelling the economy.. not mushy alone.. as I said earlier, there are zillion of factors involved.. Zia and Nawaz did their best to boost the economy and help people.. Zia was busy saving our borders and Nawaz did not get time.. Was fired by Ghulam Ishaq once and Mushy toppled him another time..

Those days the wave in the sub-continent was anti-Hindu or anti-Muslim.. muslims in India obviously supported the anti-Hindu sentiments.. no big deal.. Most of the mayhem and murder happened in Indian Punjab.. Many muslim villages in Eastern Punjab were completely wiped off.. Trains coming from Eastern Punjab would be full of body parts, limbs and what not.. there wasn't much violence against Hindus and Sikhs in the western part.. many muslims helped their Sikh and Hindu neighbors migrate to India safely... not many killings took place in the western part in my knowledge.

Sub-continent has been around for more than 5000 years.. that muslims migrating to the new-born country did not know the pride the natives had in their Aryan/cenrtal Asian heritage and origins is not Punjabis/Pathans/Kashmiris/Balochis' fault.

Janaab ai dasso, aap kis nizaam ki baat kar rahe ho? He tried his best to limit these activities.. He made Hudood Ordinance so that women don't turn toward Kothas and stuff.. he was far-sighted... He imposed martial law when he deemed necessary. HE was Allah's banda and did what he thought was right. He could not bull-dozed Heer mandi and snatch the livelihood of 100s of pros/female entertainers.. could he have done it?

What is proper Urdu Style? Lucknowi I guess.. janaab, anything related to Hindu-culture or Bharati would not be acceptable to general awaam of Pakistan. As I said even though Urdu might have been born in India, it stands a better chance of survival if its mixed with Punjabi or loses its identity.. in democracy, majority always rules. I am always okay with any Pakistani city touch to Urdu..

Initial years were very tough for Zia because of the Afghanistan war. One of my relatives who served in the Army told Zia had grand plans for Pakistan.. during his time he worked towards making roads, providing electricity to all villages in Punjab and what not.. but his attention and money was diverted somewhere else due to the situation at that time.. Sir, I assure you he would have a lot more for Pakistan than he actually did.. Economy did not do badly during his tenure.. Zia made sure one thing that our armed forces get what they want to defend our land and he delivered.. One thing I fail to understand why many people are so angry with Zia on the forum? everyone bad-mouths him once in a while despite unko guzrey huwey aik zamana ho gaya, par log unkey kabr se bhi nafrat kartey hain.

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

Moin,
Please know that warnings are issued for good enough reasons only.
The forum is obviously meant for sharing views/shikwey etc.

And one doesn't have to be politically correct; one just has to be morally correct on this forum.

Regards :)

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

Man you crack me up. Go and study what hudood ordinance did to women and how they were exploited before saying it was good.

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

This statement makes me wanna believe that i'm talking to a 6th grader......who just finished reading Mutaal-e-pakistan chapter 11.
**

^^ dil key saath saath demmagh bhi bara hona zaroori hai mere bhai
I dont have stamina to argue with u like Mr. Fraudia.....but one thing is for sure that with a conservative stuck up thinking like your.....i highly doubt it that....any one can ever have a constructive conversation with you.
U need to stop living in 50's era
welcome to 21st century my friend....racial thinking wont lead u anywhere. *
*And just to let u know Your so called brothers from afghanistan has done more damage to our country than anyone.

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

Hain?? Aap ne tu meri patloon he utaar di janab! I have a brain, bhai saab. Tu menu dassya nahin- Are you Indian or Pakistani? I don’t usually talk with Indians.. :grumpy: You mentioned your wife is a Chrisitian.. Is she a gori too? I have seen Pakistanis who have a gori wife are very liberal.. “muali” could mean Muhammed Ali- I am safely assuming you are a muslim.

Don’t say anything about our brothers from Afghanistan- they are more faithful than many Pakistanis like Balochi sardars and many other ppl I can’t take names of in this forum.. All Pakistanis have Afghan blood in us.. Why do you think they have done more harm to us..

Khair, You talk about modernity. Imagine if your kids refuse to have beard when they grow up or your daughter refuses to wear niqaab? Scary isn’t it? Socho, mere bhai, socho.. modernity is not what we want..

I don’t have anything against Fraudia Brother.. He seems to be angry with me.. Fraudia bhai seems to be a nice gentleman. He seems to be well-read and writes really well.. It just happens that we have very different views.. :bummer:

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

As much as I respect your opinions but still how were you able to reach this conclusion.

I don't have beard neither it is farz so what's so scarry about that. Same goes for niqaab, first prove if it is even Islamic, show me where it says that niqaab is farz. The ignorance and being a lakeer ka faqeer is more scary than anything else brother.

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

All Islamic scholars advise you to keep beard and wear niqaab.. IT is not Sunnah but Prohpet(pbuh) advised all his sahabas to keep beard.. so to answer your question, no it is farz but advisable.. I am not laqeer ka faqeer. Have you seen Saqlain Mushtaq, Saeed Anwar and Junaid Jamshed- they improved their life by becoming completely Islamic and have seen happiness in simple life..

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

Thats the key phrase my man, "advisable" means I have a choice to take it or leave it without any repercussions. You can have happiness without beard by just being simple, hard working and fair in your daily life, it's not rocket science.

Re: First beard, then schools and now this..

mr fraudia = sensible, mature, level headed
moin ul atiq = brainwashed, radical, biased