Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
who brought him up in this thread?
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
Get your facts straight- Who told you Indian muslims sacrificed a dime towards creation of Pakistan? i don’t think they made any significant contribution. Most of the muslims who fought for Pakistan were Punjabi muslisms- Chaudhary Rahmat Ali, Allama Iqbal among others. And, had it not been for these “Chaudharies” you hate so much, you and your ppl would’ve become ghulam to but-parasts Hindus once again. We Punjabis and Pathans have defended our borders in 4 wars and wil continue to do so. Jeevay jeevay Pakistan 
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
I would sit back and have those who experienced it more tell you a little more about it.
Altaf needs to be tried by all means, but lets not give zia a free pass here.** The guy is dead but he was no squeeky clean leader.**
I am 22 year old but I know from my uncles and relatives- many of who were and are in Pakistani army that Gen. Zia did not codemn anything wrong. Zia belonged to the Arain tribe- who are ethnic Arabs. Arain are very pious and devout people. He made sure we don't become But-parast again. It's become fashion these days to call Zia this and that. Aisa Kiyoon?
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
kya likh raha hai bhai? If he did not condemn anything bad, that makes him a bad guy doesnt it?
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
I admit that was regrettably me this time, but it’s due to Spock bringing him up in every other discussion. Don’t tell me I imagined that.
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
Maybe Zia was not caught doing anything illegal but look at the state of the country now the intolerance, militancy are his major contribution.
Who do you think started the draconian hudood ordinance? You can argue that more rights have been given after the ammendments now, but thousands of people have been victimised because of that.
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
let me answer each of your statements one by one
- Zia did not conemn anything wrong. I think you meant he did not commit anything wrong. right?
a)Remember the missiles fireworks in islamabad?
b)did your uncles tell you about the horific rise in ethnic violence in Karachi?
c)how about the sectarian strife that gained a foothold then
d)what about the drugs problem, did you know Karachi had among the highest increase rate in drug usage in the world?..during the reign of this mard-e-momin
-
you talk about Islam. Islam says its not your race or color that makes you better. so how can one say all Arain are devout and pious people. This point is not even relevant in this discussion
-
why is it fashionable to criticize Zia? well obviously you could not have done so during his rule. but ever since then people have been talking about his short sighted policies and the hell he had made the country into.
-
when ppl talk about zia being so islamic and what nots and his ‘jihad’ against soviets ina fghanistan and support of mujhideen, why do they forget black september. Palestinians have not forgotten that.
Now this is not tgo say he was all bad and did not do anything good, but to say he was all good, did nothing wrong and was some sort of super muslim goody two boots is incorrect.
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
[quote]
Get your facts straight- Who told you Indian muslims sacrificed a dime towards creation of Pakistan? i don't think they made any significant contribution. Most of the muslims who fought for Pakistan were Punjabi muslisms- Chaudhary Rahmat Ali, Allama Iqbal among others. And, had it not been for these "Chaudharies" you hate so much, you and your ppl would've become ghulam to but-parasts Hindus once again. We Punjabis and Pathans have defended our borders in 4 wars and wil continue to do so. Jeevay jeevay Pakistan
[/quote]
Pakistan was created by votes. It were bengalis who voted most for Pakistan. The punjab was last to vote for Pakistan. 1937 election vs 1946 elections>
Mr Atiq! You better get your statistics right!
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
1) Zia did not conemn anything wrong. I think you meant he did not commit anything wrong. right?
a)Remember the missiles fireworks in islamabad? b)did your uncles tell you about the horific rise in ethnic violence in Karachi? c)how about the sectarian strife that gained a foothold then d)what about the drugs problem, did you know Karachi had among the highest increase rate in drug usage in the world?..during the reign of this mard-e-momin
2) you talk about Islam. Islam says its not your race or color that makes you better. so how can one say all Arain are devout and pious people. This point is not even relevant in this discussion
3) why is it fashionable to criticize Zia? well obviously you could not have done so during his rule. but ever since then people have been talking about his short sighted policies and the hell he had made the country into.
4) when ppl talk about zia being so islamic and what nots and his 'jihad' against soviets ina fghanistan and support of mujhideen, why do they forget black september. Palestinians have not forgotten that.
Now this is not tgo say he was all bad and did not do anything good, but to say he was all good, did nothing wrong and was some sort of super muslim goody two boots is incorrect.
Yes Sir, I meant he did not commit anything wrong- it was a typo :( Sad we don't have a spell checker. English is not my first language and I, like tons of Punjabis tend to make mistakes pretty often :( Anyway,
Regarding 1) a) I would say it was neglect and you can't lay blame on Zia. Regarding 1) b) and c), I'd say that Zia, with his fearless approach kept Sectarian strife from becoming worse which it did after his death. The reason it turned from bad to worse post-Zia was because it was always waiting to happen in independent Pakistan. He did not start them. The lines of religious division if you will have their roots in the early days of Islam. Ethnic strife became a reality because of the way the sub-continent was divided- some people had been dissatisfied because the equations in the post-partition Pakistan had changed overnight- became hard for many groups to come to terms with reality and the new situation- Killing of Liaqat Ali Khan is an example.. and people had been divided post-partition since then. Zia did not create Mohajir-Punjabi-Pathan-Baloch divide. Zia kept them quite with his influence.. Let me remind you, the ethnic/religious violence increased ten folds after he died.. No one dared to demand for an independent Baloch/Seraiki Land when he was alive.. Okay I take back 2) although I will always respect the community for their contribution to Pakistan. What I meant in 3) was that ppl, if they were so dissatisfied could have taken to streets calling Zia names.. Zia after all, was just a military ruler in the lines of Ayub and Yahya Khan- if they had to public why not Zia? Millions could have made his life difficult but no one bothered.. they cud have dared... 4) was done at the behest of the west- Zia did what Mushy is doing now.. acting on the orders... just my 2 cents
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
Add fat blob, jahil, obscurantists, child molesting, homosexuals.
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
22years old!! Life has just started for you, its your generation who carries the torch for Pakistan, be good and best of luck. I will post my reply for your benefit only, do not try to reply immediately, I want u to try and absorb something different from what u r being tutored. You may not agree, but atleast u wud have heard something different.
[QUOTE]
Get your facts straight- Who told you Indian muslims sacrificed a dime towards creation of Pakistan? i don't think they made any significant contribution. Most of the muslims who fought for Pakistan were Punjabi muslisms- Chaudhary Rahmat Ali, Allama Iqbal among others. And, had it not been for these "Chaudharies" you hate so much, you and your ppl would've become ghulam to but-parasts Hindus once again. We Punjabis and Pathans have defended our borders in 4 wars and wil continue to do so
[/QUOTE]
Your above statement is not only factually incorrect it also shows the ethnic superiority complex that many Pakistanis suffer. Its the same kind of attitude We the West Pakis had when the poor Bengali demanded equal rights. We all know what happened next, ask your uncles in the army, Pak army had its A$$ whipped and handed to them on a platter.
Ch Rehmat Ali for me is one of the greatest Muslim freedom fighters but sadly is not even buried in Pakistan. Çh Rehmat Ali advocated separate homeland for the entire muslims of the Sub-Continent and never compromised on his ideals. Thus his falling out with the ruling elite of free Pakistan.
As for Allama Iqbal, well no words can describe his greatness as a scholar or visionary. Having said that, his writings are either in Urdu or Persian, being a Punjabi was never an issue for the Allama. Iam sure Allama must be turning in his grave knowing ppl are exploiting his Punjabiath.
Besides these esteemed personalities, we had many many other freedom fighters, known and unknown, Bengali, Pukhtoon, Punjabi, Sindhi and Urdu speaking. At that time they had one common goal. Now that we have the benefit of hindsight and a place called Pakistan, we sud celebrate all and not try to make it apppear as if though it was a pure aryan race kinda thing. Not true.
As for the four wars, you mention only two races, Pukhtoons and Punjabis. Well, young man, you need to get this aryan complex out of your system. Pakistan has been defended by all, Begali, Mohajir, Punjabi, Pukhtoon, Baloch, Muslim, Christian, hindu at one time or the other. That is why I keep insisting that we need to come out of this pre-conditioned mindsets that have a jaundiced view of our rich history.
Time to move on, best of luck. And Rub Rakha.
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
Time to ponder young man!
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
Time to move on, best of luck. And Rub Rakha.
Excellent.
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
*Regarding 1) a) I would say it was neglect and you can't lay blame on Zia. *
Neglect? hahahahah
interesting that the neglect happened just days before US auditors were going to inspect what was going on with the stuff they had given to Pakistan.
*Regarding 1) b) and c), I'd say that Zia, with his fearless approach kept Sectarian strife from becoming worse which it did after his death. The reason it turned from bad to worse post-Zia was because it was always waiting to happen in independent Pakistan. *
Zia's regime made the shia sunni divide worse, sipah e sahaba, lashkar e jhangvi all have their roots in that era. The reaosn it went from bad to worse was incompetency of the next set of rulers, plus extremist groups were allowed to foster and grow during zia's regime and theygained critical mass and gained momentum.
** The lines of religious division if you will have their roots in the early days of Islam. Ethnic strife became a reality because of the way the sub-continent was divided- some people had been dissatisfied because the equations in the post-partition Pakistan had changed overnight- became hard for many groups to come to terms with reality and the new situation- Killing of Liaqat Ali Khan is an example.. and people had been divided post-partition since then. **
What was the frequency and magnitude of the sectarian strife before Zia's time, and what was it during Zia's time?
*Zia did not create Mohajir-Punjabi-Pathan-Baloch divide. Zia kept them quite with his influence.. Let me remind you, the ethnic/religious violence increased ten folds after he died.. No one dared to demand for an independent Baloch/Seraiki Land when he was alive.. *
Oh he did not create it but it sure increased and went down a slippery slope since his time. ethnic violence increased after he died, but ethnic violence increased exponentially after he took office too.
Yeah as far as independent balochi land, he managed that by sending a military man to run balochistan and push people around, the results of that folly are still being seen today.
** 3) was that ppl, if they were so dissatisfied could have taken to streets calling Zia names.. Zia after all, was just a military ruler in the lines of Ayub and Yahya Khan- if they had to public why not Zia? Millions could have made his life difficult but no one bothered.. they cud have dared... **
because he was more totalitarian than previous military rulers. lets just say freedom of speech did not exist then.
4) was done at the behest of the west- Zia did what Mushy is doing now.. acting on the orders... just my 2 cents
So if we are going to complain about musharraf being this or that or a puppet. But Zia ul haq was a mard e momin mard e haq zia ul haq zia ul haq....well he was a puppet too, and under his watch Palestinians were butchered.
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
Counterpoint,
Interesting assumptions.
First thing, members’ views are NOT forum or moderator views.
Moderators only warn/take action against undesirable activity/twists in a thread/discussion.
All of which has been done in this thread previously prior to your noticing anything. There’s more to it all than meets the eye.
Secondly, it’s extremely ironic how every once in a while moderators get to hear this from all sections of society having differences at any point over any issue. At times even in recent past Pathans have felt they are cornered and ignored and all others cared more for, same goes for Afghans, Mullahs, Mohajirs, Punjabis, Baloch, Sindhis, Hindus, Christians and so on.
Perhaps that in itself proves that there are no biases against ANYONE here.
Immoral or unacceptable comments/opinions against anyone or on any subject are always taken care of with equality.
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
Basically what Haris is trying to say is that at GS we mistreat all our members equally :D
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
moin.ul.atiq,
You must refresh your facts and views and acquire more insight into matters and history, and stop posting flaming arguments that cause hurt and anger among fellow Pakistanis and forum members.
You’ve been warned earlier. Be careful please.
Meanwhile,
All sub-continent was once India and all parts had Hindu population.
Freedom activists came from all corners of India.
And, in the 4 wars; Pakistani blood has been shed for Pakistan. it was always red, but came from muslim, christian, punjabi, pathan, mohajir, baloch and sindhi bodies; all sacrificing for one Pakistan and all defend Pakistan together today, and have done so since 1947.
Indeed Jeevey Jeevay Pakistan!
BTW, Everyone, please stick to the thread topic!
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
Since our equal love for everyone often goes unnoticed, might as well try explaining our position putting it this way 
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
****Vasectomy of all clean shaven, ipod carrying PAki students in any grammar school.
Re: First beard, then schools and now this..
Vesectomy? What's that? Sounds like some thing medical?