Finally, US defeated

What written in Dr.Zhivago is cent percent true but our problem is we still carry on the same lane and track !

" Our problem is we dont listen to whispers of History "

Dr.Zhivago

Interestingly it is Zhivago or Cancer Ward , War and Peace or any other classic , ‘Red Bear’ took it 10 years to realize that

" There are 1000 ways to enter valley of Afghanistan but only 1 way to exit. And that exit passage crosses the Road of Death!

In July only , 40+ US , UK and NATO soldiers have been died. Yesterday , UK Foreign Minister shouted in international conference:

For God sake , talk with moderate Talibans.We will give them thier due share in Government but they have to sideline themelves from Al-Qaeda.No NATO country is willing to send any force in this Ghetto.They consider it some sort of Concentration Camp of Nazi era where scorching boiling summer is proving to be Death Heat Stroke to Chocolate Girl Friends Tooty Fruity soldiers.

Still after 8 years with latest tech and innovation , Mulla Omer , Al-Zahwari etc are behind the curtains

They are not my heroes neither i idealize such fanatics orthodox in front of true and moderate scholars .But problem is what British faced in 19th Century and Russia in 20th Century, US , Canada and NATO is facing in 21st !

They may start fighting with each other like we saw in 1988-2001 , they may ban girl schools again and live in cave era version

But

One thing is certain , they are Termites , anyone enter this Death VAlley , they stick to it and never leave after suckig all its blood

and we are watching this today in front of our eyes !

**

August tied for deadliest month in Afghanistan**

By AMIR SHAH, Associated Press Writer – Thu Aug 27, 7:35 am ET

KABUL – A U.S. service member died Thursday in a militant attack involving a roadside bomb and gunfire, a death that pushed August into a tie with July as the deadliest months of the eight-year war.

The death brings to 44 the number of U.S. troops who have died in Afghanistan this month. But with four days left in the month, August could set a new record.

More than 60,000 U.S. troops are now in the country — a record number — to combat rising insurgent violence. The number of roadside bombs deployed by militants across the country has skyrocketed, and U.S. forces have moved into new and deadlier areas of the country this summer, in part to help secure the country’s Aug. 20 presidential election.

Violence is on the rise in Afghanistan even as it falls in Iraq, where nearly twice as many U.S. troops are still based. Five U.S. troops have died in Iraq this month, three fewer than in July.

A statement from the NATO-led force in Kabul said the U.S. service member died in southern Afghanistan when the troop’s patrol responded to the bombing and gunfire attack. No other details were released. Thousands of new American troops are operating for the first time in Helmand and Kandahar, two of the country’s most dangerous provinces, in part to secure the country’s Aug. 20 presidential vote.

Afghan election officials have released two batches of vote tallies that show President Hamid Karzai with 44.8 percent of the vote and top challenger Abdullah Abdullah with 35.1 percent, based on returns from 17 percent of polling stations. The next partial results are expected Saturday.

Meanwhile, U.S. and Afghan forces battled Taliban militants at a medical center in eastern Afghanistan after a Taliban commander sought treatment there, and a U.S. helicopter gunship fired on the clinic after militants put up resistance.

Reports of the militant death toll from Wednesday’s firefight varied widely. The spokesman of the governor of Paktika province said 12 militants died, while police said two were killed. The U.S. military did not report any deaths. It wasn’t clear why the tolls differed.

The fighting began after a wounded Taliban commander sought treatment at a clinic in the Sar Hawza district of Paktika. Afghan forces went to the center and got in a firefight with militants. U.S. forces later provided backup.

Hamidullah Zhwak, the governor’s spokesman, said the Taliban commander was wounded Aug. 20, election day. Militants brought him and three other wounded Taliban to the clinic at noon Wednesday. Afghan forces were tipped off to their presence and soon arrived at the scene, he said.

Insurgent snipers fired from a tower near the clinic, and troops called in an airstrike from U.S. forces, Zhwak said. Fighting between some 20 militants and Afghan and U.S. forces lasted about five hours, and 12 Taliban were killed in the clash, he said.

“After ensuring the clinic was cleared of civilians, an AH-64 Apache helicopter fired rounds at the building ending the direct threat and injuring the targeted insurgent in the building,” a U.S. military statement said.

A U.S. military spokeswoman, Lt. Cmdr. Christine Sidenstricker, said the clinic’s doctor gave U.S. troops permission to fire on the clinic. After the battle, Afghan and U.S. forces met with villagers and discussed rebuilding the clinic, a U.S. summary of the meeting said.

Villagers expressed “disgust” that militants used the medical center to fire from and that they understood that the action by Afghan and coalition forces was necessary, the summary said.

“The local villagers thanked the Afghanistan National Security Forces for ensuring all civilians were out of harms way before they were forced to use Coalition helicopters to engage the enemy,” the summary said.

Seven insurgents — including the wounded commander — had been detained, the U.S. statement said.

Gen. Dawlat Khan, the provincial police chief, said two militants died in the encounter.

The Taliban have gained control of large segments of Afghanistan’s south and east over the past few years, prompting the U.S. to send an additional 21,000 troops to the country this year.

The latest clash comes as the war-torn country awaits results from last week’s election. The lengthy vote count, coupled with ongoing accusations of fraud, threatens to undermine hopes that Afghans can put together a united front against the insurgency.

Re: Finally, US defeated

Death toll of troops in Afghanistan reaches 204

• Gordon Brown speaks of 'day of mourning'
• 67 soldiers killed in Afghanistan this year

The Guardian, Monday 17 August 2009

The death toll of British service personnel in Afghanistan has risen to 204, the Ministry of Defence said yesterday, just hours after Gordon Brown spoke of a "day of mourning" as the milestone figure of 200 was reached.

The 201st casualty was a soldier from 2nd Battalion, the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, who died on Saturday from injuries sustained when a bomb exploded during a foot patrol near Sangin, in the southern province of Helmand.

Last night the MoD said three more British soldiers from 2nd Battalion, the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers had been killed, bringing the total deaths to 204. They were killed in an explosion while on patrol near Sangin, yesterday morning.

Lieutenant Colonel Nick Richardson, spokesman for Task Force Helmand, said: "Each and every death is a tragedy and the whole of Task Force Helmand feels the weight of such great loss. Words mean very little in such an extremely sad situation, but our thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of these brave soldiers. We share their pain and mourn the loss of these true British heroes."

Earlier, the MoD had announced the 200th death, a member of 2nd Battalion, the Royal Welsh, who died at the Selly Oak military hospital in Birmingham from wounds suffered two days before during a vehicle patrol in Helmand.

The deaths take to 67 the number of British troops killed in Afghanistan this year alone, half of them in July and August, as insurgents plant more and increasingly sophisticated roadside bombs.

This switch by the Taliban away from more frequent direct contact with troops has focused attention on the human cost of the war.

According to a poll commissioned by Sky News, only 13% of Britons believe it is "very clear" why British troops are in Afghanistan, while 67% think they should leave the country.

Brown said the campaign, which began at the end of 2001, was necessary to lessen the threat facing the UK. "Three-quarters of the terrorist plots that hit Britain derive from the mountain areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan, and it is to make Britain safe and the rest of the world safe that we must make sure we honour our commitment to maintain a stable Afghanistan," he said.

The defence secretary, Bob Ainsworth, argued that the presidential elections this month were vital to see "the germ of Afghan democracy continue to grow".

"It's not western-style democracy and it won't be for a very long time, but we need this election to continue to move forward governance and Afghan democracy," he told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show.

The Tory leader, David Cameron, said: "The deaths of three more British soldiers today mark a harsh weekend for our Forces in Helmand and for their loved ones here at home … The latest deaths are yet another reminder of the debt we owe to our armed forces."

The Taliban are expected to increase attacks as the election date approaches.

Seven people were killed and dozens injured on Saturday in a suspected Taliban suicide attack outside Nato headquarters in Kabul. However, the country's intelligence chief confirmed that the government had struck deals with some Taliban commanders to allow voting to go ahead, as revealed by the Guardian last week.

Amrullah Saleh, the head Afghanistan's intelligence service, said some insurgent leaders had agreed not attack voters or polling stations. He said money had been paid. The defence minister, Abdul Rahim Wardak, also announced that Afghan government forces would observe a ceasefire on Thursday.

Re: Finally, US defeated

this news must give you an orgasm

Re: Finally, US defeated

Mercenary Bhai , orgasm kya hota hai :confused:

Plz. check this news of your ‘bravest’ Canadian soldiers from your favourite TV channel and news agency

Outcry to Afghanistan War Grows as Canadian Death Toll Mounts - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com

Re: Finally, US defeated

allah karay US army and NATO army as soon as yahan say dafa hoon.

they have killed many lac people in iraq, afghanistan and pakistan under the pretext of war against terrorism. around 5 to 6 thousand ppl got killed in 9/11 and they have killed hundread times more ppl in the name of peace.

and still they are blood thirsty.

Re: Finally, US defeated

^^ They have already been defeated.In 2 years , they will go back with impression that they have stablized the country and other would not raise fingers on thier defeat.McCrystal is brought for the same purpose to increase the troops no. and then finally quit and ISI and Pak Army will play a leading role in ' honurable' exit. Recent US Embassy in Pakistan construction and marines coming are for the same purpose.

Re: Finally, US defeated

^^ right :)

Re: Finally, US defeated

people in UK are demanding to call back all the troups from Afghanistan because of a rapid increase in soldier deaths in few last months....so desert bird is quite right here.

TheStar.com

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper now says that Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan can never be defeated. Never.

The problem with Afghanistanis is just simple.

They are "un-governable", not even by themselves.

So what if NATO is "defeated" or "on the verge of a defeat". Do the cheerleaders like DB ever realize the Afghanis will be killing each other by the "10000s", just like what they did before NATO showed up.

Do you guys even know that Afghanistan suffered more death and more destruction AFTER the Soviet-commies left that Gad-awful hell on earth place?

It looks like (and I hope I am wrong), that militants in Afghanistan and the militant-sympathizers (in UK and Pak) are more interested in defeating others, and no one cares about rebuilding that cesspool of a country.

May Allah rehm karay aFghano per. Amin.

Inki burbadio kay mashwaray hain Aasmano per.

Re: Finally, US defeated

^^ Historically false. Before 1979 , King was ruling Afghanistan and Kabul was more modern city than Islamabad at that time.When Russian entered , the situation turned over.This country became the centre of proxy wars in which ISI also did blunders.When in 1988 , Pakistan and 'Mujhaideen' , which US and Europe used to call them , invited them to White House and called them the Greatest Freedom Fighters of 20th Century and Hollywood made Rambo Series Movies on these 'Mujahids' .When they defeated Russia , thier biggest enemy , these wicked at once ran from this region without forming any stable government , without considering Pakistan who was holding 30 million refugees , without taking any pain for resconstruction of this war stricken country , its economy , its youth , education.

These looters , as per thier nature , when got the fruits without loosing thier single soldier , ran and never turned back to see what will be the consequence of 10 long years of wars in which 2 million died and whole country shattered to its roots in every field.Senator Hailery recently befopre Senate Committe admitted that these are the same people whom we left in 1988.These Impreliastic Powers now eating the fruits of thier own deeds first on 9/11 and now in the battle-field of Afghanistan where they have already lost the war.

**
US-Canada-NATO-Europe Millitary Machines have sunk in the Mountains of Hindokush as once happened for Russia and British in the past.
**

It may be amazing but not un-expected that few thousands defeated the the most advanced countries of the world with most sophisticated weapons and technology even when Pakistan was against them and 100K Army is at Afghan Border . But in Valley of Afghanistan , every oppresor faced the same thing from 3000 years.

Re: Finally, US defeated

Wow, Some things at Gupshup never change! :Rolleyes:

Re: Finally, US defeated

someone who bend front of Masters and being naked on JFK and Akron Canton etc never feel any shame as Masters are very concerned about internal security so trousers , belts , cellular phone history or sniffer dogs , Slaves are always ready to bend in front of Masters : Rolleyes:

Look who is talking.

Those who forever bent in front of petty tribals, are accusing others.

Pot calling the kettle black! hahah.

Re: Finally, US defeated

**Mullen blasts US ‘strategic communication’ efforts in Afghanistan
**

Criticism by highest US military officer comes as officials admit the US is losing the war of ideas against the Taliban

The highest officer in the US military today issued a scathing critique of American “strategic communication” efforts in Afghanistan and the Muslim world, writing that the gap between promised improvements and actual developments harms the credibility of the US message.

In an article written for Joint Force Quarterly, a military publication, Admiral Mike Mullen said that US efforts in Afghanistan and elsewhere to send a positive message about US military action and development efforts hurt US credibility when they do not coincide with what the populace sees on the ground.

Mullen’s criticism comes as US officials have acknowledged the US is losing the war of ideas against its Taliban and al-Qaida enemies. In an effort to bolster its image as Barack Obama ramps up the war in Afghanistan, the administration has established a $150m (£92m) effort to train Afghan and Pakistani journalists, set up radio stations and produce pamphlets, posters and CDs lambasting Islamist militants.

Mullen, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, described “a certain arrogance” to US strategic communication efforts. “We’ve come to believe that messages are something we can launch downrange like a rocket, something we can fire for effect,” he wrote. “They are not. Good communication runs both ways. It’s not about telling our story. We must also be better listeners.”

By contrast, Mullen wrote, the Taliban forces match rhetoric with action. “They aren’t just out there shooting videos,” he wrote, “They deliver… Each beheading, each bombing, and each beating sends a powerful message.”

He also noted that the Taliban has improved governance in certain areas, establishing courts, assessing and collecting taxes, and giving local populations avenues to express grievances.

Meanwhile the US message that US action will ultimately improve the lives of Afghan citizens lacks credibility because US commanders have not built lasting relationships among the local populace and has not delivered on promises. Meanwhile, unmanned drone attacks and bombing runs have killed countless civilians and enraged the people the US must win over if efforts to destroy the Taliban and its al-Qaida allies are to be successful.

Mullen lauds the Marshall Plan, which funded the reconstruction of Europe following the second world war, and other past US efforts as the “essence” of good communication, because US actions spoke for themselves without the need for opinion polling and other PR tools.

“We sure didn’t need talking points and PowerPoint slides to deliver aid,” he wrote. “We simply showed up and did the right thing because it was, well, the right thing to do.”

He also warns that US efforts will fail if they are perceived as being done merely for credit. Mullen did not single out specific programmes for criticism. Obama has sought to distinguish himself from his predecessor President George Bush, who was seen as arrogant.

In one widely derided effort, George Bush in 2005 dispatched long-time aide Karen Hughes to Muslim countries in an effort to boost America’s rapidly declining image. In one tactic, she took to repeating that she is a mother who loves children. Al Jazeera labelled her “the marquee clown [in] America’s circus diplomacy”.

Admiral Mike Mullen blasts US ‘strategic communication’ efforts in Afghanistan | World news | guardian.co.uk

Re: Finally, US defeated

The Afghanistan-Pakistan War: Obama’s Vietnam?

by Prof. Rodrigue Tremblay

. 

September 2, 2009

A solid majority of Americans (54 percent) now oppose President Obama’s Afghanistan-Pakistan War. In fact, among Democrats, only twenty-six (26) percent support such a foreign war. In other words, by enlarging this conflict, President Obama is governing as if the opinion of a majority of Americans and of his own political base did not matter. In a democracy, a politician can do that for a while, but not for very long.

This undeclared war, just like LBJ’s Vietnam War (1959–1975) and George W. Bush’s Iraq War, is an adventure with no clear objective and no clear exit strategy, but with tremendous costs in lives and money. Nobody can tell if the U.S. and NATO are killing people in Afghanistan and in Pakistan because this is an operation to stop al-Qaeda terrorists from mounting future Sept. 11-type attacks, or because it is part of a larger plan to counter a Taliban insurgency and prevent this Pashtun Islamist party to regain power. But also, it has been said that it is a war waged to protect a pipeline crossing Afghanistan. Such a pipeline would move oil from the Caspian Basin to the coast of Pakistan through Afghanistan. Nevertheless, since this is not clearly explained, the war remains a blur for most people. The reason why such a war brings fewer open protests than the Vietnam War is essentially because it is waged with mercenaries.

That may be a reason why such open-ended wars fought with mercenaries can last for so long. For its part, Great Britain, a country used to colonial occupations, says through its incoming military Chief of Staff, General Sir David Richards, that it could stay in Afghanistan for 40 years. Even Germany seems to have regained its taste for military adventures, as its Defense Minister says it could occupy Afghanistan for ten years.

With this frame of mind, the world could be back in the nineteenth century, a century characterized by the anarchy of lawless armed conflicts, with militarized empires involved in prolonged wars, if not perpetual wars, with colonial and imperial military occupations. If the collapse of the Soviet empire in 1991 has simply ended the restraining its presence imposed on other empires from being lawless and imperialistic, then the world may be on a very dangerous course. It will be back to the future. All the democratic ideals of the second part of the twentieth century would be gone.

One has the feeling that such badly designed military adventures as the Afghanistan war, with no clear objectives in sight, are primarily launched and expanded to keep the military establishment busy and the military-industrial complex prosperous.

Mired in financial scandals and plunged into a deep economic recession, many Americans suffer from war exhaustion. There seems to be too many of these endless and costly wars, even though the professional warmongers relish them. For his part, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates declares that the American public is “pretty tired” of the seemingly endless war in Afghanistan, and he believes that the situation has to be turned around in a year.

Indeed. Only a few months ago, a substantial majority of Americans thought they had kicked the Bush-Cheney neocon warmongering crowd out of power. Those who favor American-led wars of aggression had a choice in voting for Republican candidate John McCain. But, to no avail. The Obama-Biden soft-neocon crowd seems to be in the same camp as Bush and McCain. Nothing of substance has changed, or hardly.

At least in terms of foreign policy, the question can be asked if the Obama-Biden administration is anything more than a third term of the Bush-Cheney administration? The Obama-Biden administration did not arrive in power determined to take control of the government apparatus and to change its direction. In fact, the reverse seems to have happened: It was pre-empted and subdued by the entrenched governing nomenklatura. This reflects a lack of preparedness, dedication and vision.

As soon as it was sworn in, the Obama-Biden administration began planning to enlarge the Afghan conflict with more troops and more mercenaries, and, to make its intentions crystal-clear, kept in his post Bush’s Secretary of Defense (Robert Gates) while asking Congress for $109 billion more funds to finance the adventure. Then President Obama fired Gen. David McKiernan, who had been in charge in Afghanistan, and replaced him with Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, a former Green Beret who lead the secretive Joint Special Operations Command, an outfit of commando teams that was involved in widespread murder and carnage in Iraq. And, what is strange, Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal proposed to President Obama the adoption of a Soviet Strategy of building bases and troop build-up for Afghanistan. With friends like this, Barack Obama needs no enemies.

As a matter of fact, Obama’s political enemies, beginning with Rupert Murdoch’s Wall Street Journal, but also other right-wing corporate media, are salivating at the thought. I wonder how many editorials the WSJ will write supporting candidate Obama in 2012!

But the die is cast: President Barack Obama now “owns” the Afghanistan-Pakistan (AfPak) war and he will have to live with the consequences. If the British and Soviet examples of foreign occupations in that part of the world are good indications of things to come, Commander-in-Chief Obama is going to be bogged down in this devastated mountainous land for years to come, and this may very well cost him his presidency in 2012. For a while, the Republicans and some neocon Democrats are going to cheer him. But later on, most Americans are going to turn against him.

Let’s place things in perspective here. Just as in Vietnam, the U.S. is intervening in a civil war involving Pashtuns (40% of the Afghan population), Uzbeks, Tajiks, and Hazara Shiites, among over ten minority groups sharing a traditional and often repressive and barbaric Islamic culture, in a country called Afghanistan. And it is waging guerrilla warfare in Afghan villages and towns in order to support a corrupt and illegitimate Islamist government.

The foreign soldiers are trying to “flush out the Taliban from villages” just as they were trying to flush out the Vietcong from villages. Since such wars cause many civilian deaths, sooner or later, the entire population will turn against the foreign military invaders and they are likely to be kicked out. That was the story in Vietnam and there is little doubt that this will be the story in Afghanistan-Pakistan. Sending more troops to this Asiatic region will only make matters worse. The advantage for the military establishment, besides generals getting a few stars on the shoulder, is that a prolonged conflict will keep the money flowing in their coffers and in those of their suppliers.

But wait. Now Obama is enlarging the Afghan conflict, not only by waging a drone war against tribesmen in Pakistan, but he also wants to turn the Afghanistan war into a war against Afghan drug lords. The logic here, I gather, it to multiply your enemies: the Taliban, al-Qaeda, Pakistan tribesmen, Afghan drug lords, etc. The more you have, the more likely the conflict will endure.

When you forget that the initial objective in Afghanistan, after the 9/11 attacks, was a narrow one, i.e. to prevent that country from becoming again a haven for terrorists, it is easy to widen a conflict ad nauseam. As a matter of fact, this was tried before in Afghanistan. The Soviets tried it for nine years, from December 1979 to February 1989, and despite sending in hundreds of thousand troops, they did not succeed. It was the Soviet Union’s Vietnam War, to paraphrase Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Jimmy Carter’s Security advisor.

Similarly, Obama’s war in Afghanistan-Pakistan would require hundreds of thousands of troops on the ground. Like the Soviet Union, the U.S. is building large military bases in Afghanistan and its commanders think there are never enough troops. Presently, the U.S. has some 60,000 troops in Afghanistan. Next year, it is easy to predict it will have more than 100,000 troops in that remote country, if the current policy is followed.

And under what legal basis? It is stretching quite a bit the terms of the U.N. Security Council’s resolution 1368 of September 12, 2001, to justify an open-ended war in Afghanistan and in Pakistan. That resolution was adopted under Article 51 of the U.N. Charter that affirms the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense. Since the 9/11 terrorists had trained in Afghanistan under Taliban control, such training camps had to be dismantled, either by the Afghan government or by external forces. Since the Taliban government refused to comply, the U.S. was in its right to intervene. Thus the overthrow of the Taliban government and the destruction of al-Qaeda training camps in that country. This was done in the fall of 2001.

On December 20, 2001, the U.N. Security Council (Resolution 1386) authorized the creation of a NATO-led military international force to assist the newly established Afghan Transitional Authority in creating a secure environment in and around the capital Kabul and to support the reconstruction of Afghanistan. That’s the legal reason why there are foreign soldiers in Afghanistan. They operate under the umbrella of the so-called International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), whose mission has been expanded, year after year, to cover most of Afghanistan (see U.N. Security Council Resolution 1510).

Later, the U.N. Security Council also authorized a mission of assistance in Afghanistan. In March 2002, the U.N. Security Council organized an Assistance Mission in Afghanistan’s (UNAMA) with the adoption of Resolution 1401. UNAMA’s primary mandate is “to manage all humanitarian, relief, recovery and reconstruction activities.” That mandate has been renewed in March of each year, the last time on March 23, 2009, extending it until March 23, 2010.

But now we are in 2009, eight years after 2001. Is there really a legal basis for the U.S. to drop bombs over villages in Pakistan and to occupy Afghanistan indefinitely with foreign troops? There is some play with words here. For example, the European countries participating in the NATO-U.S.-led mission in Afghanistan talk about a “police mission” to justify the presence of their soldiers in Afghanistan. In fact, this so-called police mission has turned into a permanent military occupation of Afghanistan and into a guerilla war against local militants and insurgents, in both Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Let’s keep in mind that many of the so-called “militants” or “insurgents” in Afghanistan, the Mujahideen and to a certain extent the Taliban, used to be called “Freedom fighters” by President Ronald Reagan (see the Reagan Doctrine) when they were fighting the Soviet invaders, with the help of the American C.I.A., Saudi Arabia and the Pakistani secret police (ISI). This shows how such “freedom fighters” conveniently change names when they switch camp! They have gone from being called “heroic” to being called “insurgents”. Such is the propaganda of war. —An historical fact remains: The unintended consequence of the Reagan Doctrine is the current Afghanistan-Pakistan war, and it may have played an important role in preparing the ground for the 9/11 catastrophe.

Nevertheless, let us say that this is stretching the U.N. Charter to the limit to say that it now permits the permanent military occupation of a sovereign country by foreign troops. It is true that the U.N. Charter, under Chapter VII (Action with Respect to Threats to the Peace, Breaches of the Peace and Acts of Aggression), can authorize collective action against a country for good reasons. But the intent of such a military intervention is to be short-term and not to be turned into a permanent colonial occupation.

In conclusion, let us say that since the Obama administration is clearly enlarging the Afghan conflict and has authorized drone bombings in Pakistan, it would seem that the U.N. Security Council should be called to authorize or condemn such an enlargement of the conflict. It should also indicate that it favors a compromise solution to the conflict.

*Rodrigue Tremblay is professor emeritus of economics at the University of Montreal and can be reached at [email protected]

Rodrigue Tremblay is a frequent contributor to Global Research. Global Research Articles by Rodrigue Tremblay*

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=15030

Re: Finally, US defeated

Are we approaching a tipping point in Afghanistan ?

David Hughes

1st September,2009*

David Hughes is the Daily Telegraph’s chief leader writer. He has been covering British politics for 30 years.*

The American commander in Afghanistan, General Stanley McChrystal, has warned that Nato’s strategy is not working. In the coming weeks he is expected to press Barack Obama for even more troops - the President has already sent an additional 21,000, taking the US contingent to 68,000 - if the Taliban are to be nailed. McChrystal might find his request meeting an unenthusiastic response. For the growing evidence that Hamid Karzai has fiddled the Afghan election to give his rotten-to-the-core administration another four years to milk this benighted country has prompted more and more people to ask what on earth we are doing there. Polls show that opinion here and in the US is swinging against the war - YouGov found that two-thirds of voters in this country want us to pull out of a conflict that has so far cost more than 200 British lives for no discernible purpose. The Government’s claim that if we abandon the fight against the Taliban, al-Qaeda will be emboldened and the streets of Britain will face greater terrorist dangers is beginning to look threadbare.

The Nato strategy has been brilliantly demolished in a Washington Post piece today by George Will who says that an effective counter-insurgency operation would require hundreds of thousands of coalition troops for a decade or more - “that is inconceivable”, he argues. He says that America should only do what can be done offshore using drones, cruise missiles, special forces and the rest. Military types will argue that Will’s gameplan is fantasy fighting and there can be no substitute for boots on the ground. Yet I suspect that the Will thesis is going to start gaining a lot of traction in the coming months. He points out that the Afghan conflict has already lasted half as long again as the United States’ combined involvement in both world wars. The time is surely fast approaching when American public opinion says “enough”.

Are we approaching a tipping point in Afghanistan? - Telegraph Blogs

That actually sounds disasterously bad. It implies that following a US withdrawal, with the inevitable Taliban victory when NATO troops are withdrawn, that the USA's strategy should be to permanently keep Afghanistan unstable and ungovernable by keeping it constantly under bombardment and other forms of attack.

That would lead to just as much chaos as the current situation.

Re: Finally, US defeated

^^ yeah and otherwise the al qaeda and other terrorists will set up training camps and keep sending terrorists around the world for global operations like 9/11 or 77/7

I posted the following 6 months ago and it seems were are moving towards that direction, if so, so be it.

Currently the goal is to stabilize Afghanistan and make it into a viable nation which opposes terror. If that fails what do you expect? Do you expect the U.S. to walk away like they did in the late 80's and allow terror organizations to operate freely and go unabated? Before leaving you can bet the opposition, be it the Northern Alliance or some other group, will be armed to the teeth to wage war with the Taliban. Undoubtedly the country will descend into further turmoil but as long as terrorists can't operate freely that will have to do, that will be the accepted victory.