Final decisions

Now i have spoken to alot of religious conservatives in my short period on GS and i still don’t understand one thing. Why can’t muslim scholars just sit down and decide stuff like Drinking haram, Female Circumcision haram, dating haram, living in the US halal, living in the UK halal, marrying a jew is religiously halal (i don’t know i am just coming up with crazy stuff) drugs are halal or haram or makru…

So the question is why don’t all the “great” respected and accepted scholars sit down and basically make shariah and islamic jurisprudence as clear as crystal. As you can see on GS you have many diverging views on alot of stuff. Much of it biased and full of weird stuff. Why not clean it up and publish it in a book. Makes it easier for everybody.

Like Music, dancing and photography. Halal or haram? Decide in a shura or whatnot and get it over with. It will make everybodies life eaiser.

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CM the great scholars DO agree on all the ones you have listed. It's often the ignorant people who come up with the differences and the silly new rules of their own.

Most of the times I think we just have to use common sense.

The major haram/halal rulings are made very very clear. However, every now and then people will come who don't like Islam as it is. So they dig and distort and suit the rules to their own whims.

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Who are you kidding man?

All you hear is molvi-bashing and you think anything they will come up with from Quran or Sunnah will make the mod-muslims feel better.

AQ agrees with MQ.

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S# agrees with AQ

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M agrees with S#, AQ and MQ. CM :@

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Most scholars historically have been against codifying Islam as you suggest. The argument is that they themselves might just be wrong and so Islam would be corrupted. Therefore, Islam is constantly open to interpretation.

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See that is what ZK said and so did Ahmed. It just doesn't make sense to me. If something is considered 100% true. Eating pig is haram then why not codify it.

MQ and her minions :p :D they might agree on all of it but there is so much disinformation spread on GS not to mention in the world. There should be one accepted resource guide for what is right and wrong? I personally would like to see something like "An Idiots Guide to halal and haram in Islam". It would make it much easier to tell our resident idiots that they are idiots.

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Assalamualaikum,

The scholars actually agree on most matters of fiqh (that includes everything you posted). Then why does there seem to be such a great amount of differences in fiqh among the ummah? The first reason has already been said. Another major reason is because a lot of laypeople (like us) tend to take the very small differences that do exist and argue about it as if it will determine life and death. (and there is a hadith about this affair:
Yahya related to me from Malik that Abdullah ibn Abdullah ibn Jabiribn Atik said that Abdullah ibn Umar had come to them in Bani Muawia, one of the villages of the Ansar, and said, “Do you know where the Messenger of Allah (saw) prayed in this masjid of yours?” I told him, “Yes,” and I pointed out a place near where he was. He said, “Do you know the three things for which he made dua here?” I said, “Yes.” He said, "Tell me them then. "I said, “he asked that He would not make an enemy from among the non-believers triumph over the believers and that He would not destroy the believers by bad harvests, and he was given both these things. And he asked that He would not make the believers fight amongst themselves, and that was refused.” ibn Umar said, “You have told the truth”, and he added, “Turmoil will not cease until the day of rising.” [Muwatta Imam Malik; 15/35]

As far as the hadith that the Prophet (saw) said: “Differences are a mercy to my Ummah”- this hadith is an outright fabrication

Sadly, this is the state of affairs of Muslims. But to say that in those issues which there are differences, that people should unite. This is a good thing which, however can never be done in EVERY SINGLE thing. Not every single issue will be a situation where you can make one choice or another. There are issues, however, from those small differences, where people do have a choice to unite in it. But Many people stick fanatically to their madhab, and will not budge even when shown hardcore proof that the opinion they follow is not right. The salafis today want this unity for the ummah (and so do others), and even though they might be following a madhab, they do not follow it blindly and fanatically. This is a reason why they are hated amongst many people, because many other hisbees claim that the salafis disrespect the Imams in this way. However, IF you refer to the books of the respected Imams, you will find that the salafi are actually respecting those Imams. (I will not go any deeper in this issue)

But one person did ask a scholar ‘Why is there 4 madhaahibs?’ and a lack of unity? The answer is found in this link, http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543290

Im guessing your probably still thinking, why can’t the muslims just get over their differences. It is definitely not that simple, and this disunity is a test from Allah. We should try focusing on doing our best to make our hearts soft and full with Iman and call people to unity. On this thorny path, no doubt you might be humiliated or something, but Allah tells us in the quran that he test the believers with trials and tribulations, so take note: PATIENCE REQUIRED!

Insha’allah CM, if you really want to learn about this stuff, you should take an al-maghrib class. Do you live in the U.S or canada?

AND ALLAH (SWT) KNOWS BEST

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It is codified. In the Quran.

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or if u are looking for a fellow human researcher of Quran, go get a book by Dr. Ahmed Saqar of Chicago.

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Scholars of every sect do have consensus on many of the basic practices/acts. Then there is another set of beliefs/acts that scholars differ. This could be because they could be residing in different countries, so they have to take the local conditions into consideration or it could be because they have examined different set of ahadith or teachings than the other scholars. Or perhaps because they find one set of evidence more convincing over another. Whatever the case may be, it should be alright so long as whatever we're following is in accord with shariah.

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Medic not all shariah is codified in the Quran. I seriously doubt the issue of music is codified in the Quran, but i could easily be wrong. There issues of day to day practice that could easily be codified, yet they aren't. I am just wondering why. Personally i think codified rules would make it much easier for us to discern right from wrong and give our "mod muslims" a true picture of our faith and how they don't practice it.

Thanks for the author AQ.

Sadiyah i am just wondering out loud why things that are agreed to be 100% true are not codified. I am guessing a good majority of islamic teachings say 75% of them can easily be codified. There is very little scope for weaseling out of what is wrong in Islam. Why not just write it down and stamp it.

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How do you want it to be codified? What kind of format do you have in mind exactly?

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Basically in legal terms you have a paper which a group of "Experts" writes up and more "experts" agree to it and its all written down. Not another Quran. Rather i am not sure about this but has there ever been a complete record of every shariah law passed and applicable to muslims? If there is one already existing well then they are codified. If there is no such thing, that is what i propose.

A simple book which states what is acceptable and what is not acceptable and it gets official religious approval.

Basically small day to day issues that confuse the hell out of me. Stuff like a photo being taken is considered to be haram by a few. I personally don't think it is. But then again going to any store or resturant that serves alcohol is not acceptible (i think that is correct) so what does one do if they want to go out in say france where there is more wine than water?

For better or for worse a resource guide of right and wrong.

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There's Fiqh-us-Sunnah by Syed Sabiq. It is comprised in 5 volumes. It points out the basic laws on a number of topics. I never got a chance to read it in detail, but I believe most of the Sunni scholars do refer to it.

In addition, for issues such as whether to take pics or not, there have been small books compiled covering such topics, but then again it doesn't really work out well as different scholars hold different opinions. However, Fiqh-us-Sunnah is good and something that many can refer to, while keeping in mind that there may be other rulings that may be correct as well.

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Read Halal and Haram by Yusuf Qardawi (spelling?). It comes close to what you mean.

There will never by coded rules the way you mean, because each school differs on matters because of the possibility of different interpretations each with their own daleel, and it depends on your own knowledge (or lack of knowledge) and your own sense which you will follow.

I guess it's the best to take something good from each group. People will always differ, including scholars.

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Final decisions do exist for most issues....rather all issues that have been explicitly mentioned in the Quran, and they dont necessarily need further codification. The problem with us people is that when we look for rulings on a certain issue or problem, we go about it with preconceived notions. For a liberal woman, quranic rulings about pardah would mean simply covering the bosom, whereas for a conservative woman, the same ruling would translate into a head to toe cover. Point being, we read what we want to read. People essentially wish for Islam to conform to their lifestyles, rather than the other way around; hence, you will find fatwas both in favor of, and against just about anything out there.

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Difference of opinion in matters of fiqh has never really been and should never be a cause for disunity... these differences are there from the earliest times... even the companions of the Prophet (saw) were never as a whole united on exactly the same fiqh opinions on every issue... but that's not the problem... the problem is our inability to be accommodating of legitimate divergent views, instead unashamedly using such differences as excuses to shout "disunity!" and lambaste fellow Muslims... historically, the scholars have always been above such petty quibbling on matters where there’s scope for more than one view

so I think we are coming at this from entirely the wrong angle... the question is not how we can codify jurisprudic rulings... but how we can work on keeping our hearts united despite our varied opinions

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I suppose the differences happen when 'relativism' comes in....That is when people take what is convenient to them.

I read somewhere that it is okay for a muslim to live in a non-islamic state. I also read that this is true only if the muslim did not have a realistic choice. If the latter is correct, almost all migrants from muslim countries moving to western countries are not doing the right thing. Now ask a migrant who thinks of himself as a fairly good practising muslim. He would take the view either 1) I am not actively participating in the affairs of this nation and hence it is okay or 2) There are no really true islamic nations that exist in the world and hence it doesn't really matter which country I am in or 3) the whole world belongs to Allah and hence you don't have a right to tell me that I should not live here.

It would be impossible to disagree 100% with any of the above.

There are no absolutes in the world.

Losing control on my mind because of alcohol is a no-no to me. But I am perfectly okay with losing this control because of anaesthesia when I need to be operated. Allah would understand. I am not like Gandhi who was able to go through surgery without anaesthesia, simply by reading religious texts.

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The problem with a list of DO's and DONT's as proposed by CM, is that

  1. very seldom ALL scholars will agree on all items resulting in people branching off into sects

  2. the list will have to be dynamic - i.e. continually being added/deleted to cater for changes in technology/science, etc.

  3. major problems rooting out cultural issues presently imbedded in the way some people practice the religion

  4. people will tend to try and find loopholes

  5. there might be a tendency on some people to use it as a "add-on" to the Quran and Hadiths