I have always held a belief in my heart that Muslims should be more united… one of my life dreams is to see the Sunni and Shia sects come closer together and work as a more cohesive force for the greater good of the Islamic cause and for humanity as well.
However do you my esteemed elders, beloved brothers and sisters agree that unity is something we all need to work on?
Like many Orthodox Suni Muslims i am a deeply religous man however i have always had a view of making peace with my fellow Shia in as many ways as i can, to me it’s important that if our faith is to continue to remain strong beyond the 21st century we need to come to terms and stop needless bloodshed and hatred between our peoples.
This view of mine can be taken further and inter faith dialogue can even take place with non Muslims to a degree… i believe in resolving conflict without coming to blows… although i’m used to causing controversy with my skill at arms i also recognise that force of arms is not the only way forward.
Also if possible could moderators add a poll to the effect that the question i pose is thus:
Can we bridge the divide between Sunni and Shia… do you think we should?
I would like a serious debate on the issue but please can we all refrain from hate speech and labelling at the end of the day our differences are not as many as our simmilarities and right now i have no shame in admiting i am a lover of the Ahle Bayt and that i am also a fan of the Shia resistance who are defending Islam as well if not better than many a Sunni regime.
In these dark times it is not wrong for Muslims to feel victimised… though we need not assume we are in the Crusades, but even if we were surely it is to the benefit of all Muslims that unity be acheived between our peoples.
Too much innocent blood is spilt on this pointless centuries old hatred between two very simmilar branches of our faith and we need to analyse what went wrong so long ago.
Sure we all know a bit of history but lets not be blinded by cultural and other scare stories and let there be more dialogue between the sects and even at a later stage other faiths… for surely on GS we have an oppurtunity to have a sensible and very helpfull debate on what is such an important and diverse subject.
Great thinking. Its actually a need of time as well. More than ever before.
If shias don't abuse Sahaba, we will not question if the Imams were born from their mothers' thighs or existence of 12th Imam.
There is a clear common ground where both sects can unite, that is Allah, Muhammed SAW and Quran, but people like to bring later politics into religion, which destroys the trust. Although, nobody can gain anything if someone snatched someone's right to rule 1400 years ago. Its not relevant anymore. Allah, Quran and Prophet's legacy will remain till Qiyamaat.
If shias don't abuse Sahaba, we will not question if the Imams were born from their mothers' thighs or existence of 12th Imam.
Shias love the Sahabas who remained loyal the Prophet and his household. Don't be naive enough to believe everything you read. Aaema (as) were not born out of their mothers' thighs.
I was expecting this answer :) Gosh, you guys have built-in replies everywhere. I have been hearing this and other typical counter-arguments to twist or divert a discussion since I was kid. I can write a whole book on tactics you guys are taught to avoid discussion over controversial stuff in your own books. Those even refuted by your own scholars.
Sunnis normally do their laundry in open, so I know a lot of things you can point to. We lived next door to and were friends to a prominent and practicing Shia family and have discussed and shared books and views etc on things that normally used to attack each other.
^
[25:63] And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!";
Allama Baqir Majlisi writes in Haqqul Yaqeen, page 126 "We, the Awsiya of the Prophets are not conceived in the wombs of our Mothers, but in their sides. We do not come out of the wombs, but out of the thighs of our Mothers. We are the light of God,and hence, we are kept away from filth and uncleanliness."
This is the denial state you live in, even after your books printed and available in the markets.
have u been going to that hate mongering Khalid b Walid mosque lately or what?..if yes then my advice is that there r many decent mosques in Toronto so save urself from shaitaan and make a change…
for ppl like u there is a wise saying that goes…never debate with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience…but oh well…the above is a sleazy copy & paste from a nasibi site such as this here kr-hcy.com this one…Shia exposed: their false beliefs | The Revival this one… http://sunniperspective.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/are-shia-muslim/… or here islamic-forum.net among many other deceitful nasibi attempts.
did u even check the reference urself b4 posting?..ok how abt a little task…how abt u scan any book from a shia marja or high ranking scholar to prove this belief or any of those beliefs stated from the nasibi websites…
or even better if we open a new thread ‘Shia v Sunni hadith’ where we cud start of by u giving me list of top 3 or 4 Sunni books of hadith…I will give u my top 4 books of Shia hadith and then we will compare and debate the contents as we go…does that sound fair?..it wont b copy n paste jobs anymore but more real, one to one, authentic discussion…u cud show me what u have learned off ur " shia neigbours" abt the Shia faith and I will show u what I know…deal?
Nuss.....whats up with Khalid Bin Walid mosque. I don't even know where that is, nor I discuss my personal opinion in my circles, just like many Shias won't even if they think Sunnis are Munafiqs etc. Why doing personal attacks?
I did copy and paste from the website (not the ones you pasted links of) but I have read it in Irani Inqilab (written by a Sunni) so three different sources point to the same book of yours to exactly same page number. Before telling me, do you have or read Haq-ul-Yaqeen???? Can you deny that the book doesn't have the controversial belief? Can you provide a proof, since I am failed to back it up?
I actually want to study couple of books from scratch (like Usool-e-Kaafi) read some chapters long time ago. Is there a reliable Shia book store where I can get both Usool-e-Kaafi and Tahrir-ul-Waseela (Khomeini) in Urdu (preferred) or English.
Also mention, what do you think about Usool-e-Kaafi and Khomeni sahab. Is everything written in those books are authentic? I don't think any Sunni will claim that all Hadeeth in Sahihs are authentic. There are ofcourse some weak ones.
If you think the same way, then we are on same page. Some ppl probably made up stories on both sides. Otherwise I will bother you once I have those books in my hands and once I find all the references in the chapters or page numbers containing concerned phrases.
Like 'baab mowaleed al-aimma alehimus salaam' in Usool-e-kaafi mentions weird drink that an angel gives to Imam before the baby is conceived that night. I am trying to download online copy in the mean time to give you reference.
I was expecting this answer :) Gosh, you guys have built-in replies everywhere. I have been hearing this and other typical counter-arguments to twist or divert a discussion since I was kid. I can write a whole book on tactics you guys are taught to avoid discussion over controversial stuff in your own books. Those even refuted by your own scholars.
hey lets save this for some firey discussion elsewhere. At least exaggerations have been refuted by our scholars and we have sayings from the imams which exhort the shias to refrain from such canards. I could go on and on about sunnies having built in defense mechanisms when it comes to sahabas and their glorious acts. But that is not the discussion here.
Unity means tolerance. And tolerance is not an impossible task to achieve. You dont have to convince the other party to your beliefs to achieve unity. I dont agree with cursing prominent personalities revered by sunnies. I dont believe in saying the call to the prayers three times a day only. I detest this habit of shias. But they do have the right to criticise. They have the right to carry out their jaloos and azaadari. Sunnies and Shias have coexisted peacefully in the past, at least in pakistan. And they still do, except for the few salafis that we have today. I never had problems with any sunni in my life and we never had the urge to discuss religion. That is unity. Live and let live.
smoothy…I will b getting in touch with u as soon as I cud get some time in my hands…in the mean time u cud start with the book we call Nahjul Balagha which is a collection of sermons and letters of Imam Ali…if u wish to study more books and other subjects then for more text u cud visit http://www.al-islam.org/alpha.php?sid=130041954&t=alpha_shell&
don’t have hate mongers like Manzur Nomani dictate u Shia beliefs but instead visit websites of our scholars and ask them questions directly urself…
They have the right to carry out their jaloos and azaadari. Sunnies and Shias have coexisted peacefully in the past, at least in pakistan. And they still do, except for the few salafis that we have today. I never had problems with any sunni in my life and we never had the urge to discuss religion. That is unity. Live and let live.
Precisely my point.
Furthermore were not just talking unity here... Muslims from both Shia and Sunni schools stood side by side in the same rank and file agains the Crusaders in bygone days.
We won the Crusades... i'm not saying this war on terror is the new crusade but if it was surely we Muslims need to respond with the same old united front right?
Besides we all dream of a great glorious Islamic superpower right? Well most such Muslim superpowers existed when Sunni and Shia were working together... and when they stopped co-operating and fought each other the empires shattered.
I will briefly respond now that you have shown some manners and have actually put forward some queries rather than rhetoric.
Over the past centuries there have been tons of books written by both side. Many of them are propaganda and counter propaganda and offer not much more than that. If you wish to waste your time on those them it is up to you but if you are interested in theology then Nahaj ul Balagha will be a good place to start. If you wish to study Hadith then you could start by Kitab Al Kafi by Sheikh Kulayni. If you are interested in supplications/spirituality then Sahifae Sajjadia is an excellent collection of duas from Imam Zainul Abideen (as)
Al Kafi is a huge book that consists of more than 16 thousand narrations. Its an excellent book but do remember that the author himself has graded 5 thousand of the narrations as Sahi or while others are of various grades as hadith are classified in 5 different categories. Here is an Urdu link of Al Kafi both Asool and Faru’: http://shiamultimedia.com/urdubooks1.html
We consider no book free from error except the Holy Quran. I have already mentioned the gradation of the hadiths in Al Kafi.
Agha Khomeini was a scholar and leader and I have utmost respect for him. Whats the relation between him and Kafi?
It is foolish to provide excerpts from Shia books without having at least somewhat knowledge of the science of hadith, which I may add is very complex. For example, an illiterate Shia will pick a hadih from Bukhari and say that this is the belief of Sunnis. You have a good example of Wahabhis who take their ideas from Saha Sitta but differ greatly in their beliefs from mainstream classic Sunni scholars on issues as fundamental as Tawheed.
Here is a good site that lists the Shia beliefs as penned down by some classic Imami scholars: http://www.tashayyu.org/kalam
