Rani,
LOL. Your comment about this being "my" forum hence me being able to say what I want shows clearly your lack of logic.
Let me turn it around. This is YOUR forum Rani, you have the liberty to say what you want too. Nobody is stopping you. Unless of course what you have to say is indecent.
Andhra,
I'll answer your post after you answer Elmo's.
I was about to post a big grin and leave this thread, but I guess I can post a couple of ‘serious’ words here.
First of all I never saw this place as some ones personal property, not even Azkar bhai’s, sure some dedicated ppl invest a lot in this to keep this place running, but normal members don’t see that, and in a way it’s ok. Personal BB’s with real agendas are really not hard to find. One tour through Indian and Pakistani fora on net and you’ll know. Anyway that’s not the issue here. Future of this section is – speaking as a member I’d love to see this section as a place from where I could get online help about any religious topic. I would like to feel welcome to post questions about Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism etc. Instead (ignoring the usual bashing and use of foul language) one doesn’t even feel welcome to ask tiny questions about other religions. Even about Islam you never know who’s on the other side, trying to feed you with made ups. Why are ppl so ashamed of their own religions, why do we have (or have had) so many imposters? Why are we so interested in posting so much propaganda against other religions? What goes on in one’s mind while searching for such material on net? How does it feel when you’ve found something negative that you can use against the another group – you know you’re not interested in any clarification, you don’t even want to understand, so why even bother? Isn’t it a sick no-life kinda behavior?
Of course every one should be welcomed here, but how could we be encouraged to post useful material? What other discussion methods do we know?
Should we allow threads that question the basics of Islam? <<
Of course we should, we should know enough to be able to explain questions about the basics of Islam. Provocative threads, that go on and on with non-stop religious bashing should be deleted though. Freedom of speech has limits – no ideology should be followed just for the heck of it.Should we allow people to question the basics of other faiths? <<
Same as before, but as most of our mod’s are Muslims, sometimes it can be difficult to see what a thread is about – so perhaps member should help the mod.As a group of intellectuals, exactly where do we stand on these issues?<<
I don’t have problems with ppl questioning Islam, I think it’s interesting – one of million different ways to learn. I know for a fact that GuShup Mod’s try their best to protect other religions, so does most of our members – but unfortunately not many react when Islam is under attack, and that’s one thing that really irritates me.
Should we allow non-Muslims to participate here?
Should we allow threads that question the basics of Islam?
Should we allow people to question the basics of other faiths?
As a group of intellectuals, exactly where do we stand on these issues?
As far as I am concerned non-muslims are welcome here. If they come with a friendly attitude they will be met with a friendly response. If they come with an agenda they will get kicked in the pants. It’s their choice and I’m happy either way.
As far as I can see this forum is mainly used for bashing islam. main guilty parties are faceup, ad-bulmalick, Rani and realpaki in his various nicks, to name a few.
Others like ZZ, Dhir and Andhra stick to the politics forum where myself, Malik, Ehsan, Mundyaa and others are doing the dirty work in keeping these pests under control, while the rest of you guys exchange pleasant chit-chat in the general forums.
No need to thank us. 'Ask not what your country can do for you…'etc
Xtreme, general suggestion for you. Change your nick to D.D.T. as you claim to control the pests. But alas, it is now banned in most of the countries, I hope the same does not happen to you in Gupshup.
see what I mean?
dhir,
Why participate in this thread if you have nothing more to contribute than a personal attack at Xtreme?
Why have you not addressed the original questions that I have posted?
ZZ,
In light of the above contributions from Andhra and dhir, I see how you can question the intellect here. I am beginning to understand why you would want to isolate the forum from such irrelevant and distracting messages.
Saba,
Thanks for the input. I must say that I agree with everything that you have said.
When I said that I am tolerant I was referring to what we all go through when we see people attacking Islam for no purpose except to hit out at something they have been "programmed" to hate. I'm hoping that this tolerance will eventually be rewarded. I continue to believe that if I have faith, nobody can take it away by bad-mouthing or mud-slinging. Why do other's not feel as confident about their religions?
dhir's reply is to a provocation of kicking in pants or whatever.. andhra seems a bit bored today and is adding to threads even if he has nothing new. but everyone has a bored day.. btw, as far as being intellectual or whatever, as i clarified to mundayya, i was just joking. at least i myself never had anything to do with being intellectual.. bye for today..
ZZ,
You claim that dhir’s reply is in response to the provocation? What provocation? The fact that if you come around with nothing to support your views your behind will get kicked? Isn’t that what happens when you lose a debate?
Are you suggesting that Mr.Xtreme’s explanation of what may happen is provocation enough for dhir to “attack”? Seriously now it’s getting rather difficult not to laugh.
And does being bored justify andhra’s comments? So will it be okay if I go around and make provocative accusations and allegations regarding some faith simply because I’m bored today?
You’re digging yourself deep into a hole ZZ by trying to support these people. Quit while you are ahead.
I just noticed another thing.....
There are such blatantly obvious flame baits around....and people here foolishly fall for them.
Why? Do you not see when someone is just trying to create trouble? Or do you see it and just because you're bored you go along with it?
Obviously moderators can check and know when one nick is simply playing with himself/herself (you know what I mean).....but is it that difficult for the rest of the membership to pick up on it?
Muzna, extremely partial views you have. Please do go through the posts again and see who was trying to be provocative and who used a more sober language. I take it that calling someone pests or kicking in the pants are part of so called sober code of conduct you want to be enforced. Then fine. I am guilty. I shall certainly follow suit.
Dhir,
You have a point!
Dhir,
You have a point!
No he doesn't. I mentioned that thoes that come with a friendly attitude will get a friendly response. Those that come with an agenda will get a kick in the pants. What do they expect - a handshake and a cheery wave?
[quote]
Originally posted by Mr Xtreme:
**>>Dhir,
You have a point!
No he doesn't. I mentioned that thoes that come with a friendly attitude will get a friendly response. Those that come with an agenda will get a kick in the pants. What do they expect - a handshake and a cheery wave?**
[/quote]
dont u urself have an agenda xtreme? kick urself.
Xtreme and Muzna, can you make out a difference between the two ways of saying the same thing:
(1) Your gun has backfired.
or say (2) You have been pointing fingers at us now you put your finger behind yours.
Muzna and Xtreme will definitely choose to use the second version. It is not what you are saying that instigate unnecessary brick bats, it is how you say it.
OK Dhir,
here's a test for you. You have been posting jokes here fairly regularly and I never cross your path in that forum. Similarly if you open a thread in the General forum about say, Knitting V Sewing as a pastime, I doubt i will have any arguments.
If you come into the Politics Forum and start bad-mouthing Pakistan then you will get your kick in the pants - and you will deserve it. This is a Pak forum and we don't allow non-Pak members to undermine our nation or religion without a befitting reply.
dhir,
I have said it before and I will say it again…those that fall prey to provocation pay the price.
There is nothing wrong with what Xtreme said. If people come to an environment where they are a minority and they choose to create trouble by posting defamatory material 'cause they get a kick out of seeing people bicker, then yes, they should get a kick out of it…just not in the same place that they may have anticipated.
I keep asking this question and nobody wants to provide an answer. Because dhir you believe that I am biased, why don’t you answer it for me? What forum can you go to as a minority and still expect fair treatment? Is there an Indian forum where Pakistanis are as welcome as Indians are here? Please provide an answer with evidence to back yourself up.
Next…if you witnessed some trouble-makers cluttering up a good thing, would you just allow them to be or would you get rid of the pests? Wouldn’t you kick them in the pants and show them the door? This applies to Indians and Pakistanis, Muslims and Non-Muslims alike. (I’ve made my position clear on that earlier in this thread.)
About making out the difference in the two statements, I’m not clear of what you are saying…dunno if it’s a grammar issue or what but please restate it.
I agree with your view that it’s not what you are saying but how you are saying it. If you understand that then why respond to provocation? Surely you can take the logic to that next step.
Finally, you seem very quick to want to “follow suit”. Why is that? Don’t you want to come to some sort of agreement on this matter? I’m still here discussing it…why are you not willing to?
ZZ,
Everyone has an agenda. It’s not having one that’s the problem…it’s what the agenda is that we are questioning.
If you come with the intent to discuss, learn and potentially convince then all is okay. If you come with the intent to stir up trouble, create fitna and cause unrest then of course, we will have a problem.
Adbulmalick,
No he does not.
[quote]
Originally posted by Mr Xtreme:
*OK Dhir,
here's a test for you. You have been posting jokes here fairly regularly and I never cross your path in that forum. Similarly if you open a thread in the General forum about say, Knitting V Sewing as a pastime, I doubt i will have any arguments.
If you come into the Politics Forum and start bad-mouthing Pakistan then you will get your kick in the pants - and you will deserve it. This is a Pak forum and we don't allow non-Pak members to undermine our nation or religion without a befitting reply. *
[/quote]
I do not agree with this presumption. Maybe we are helping pakistan, by putting what they presume, to evaluation.
Let there be dialogue at equal terms. pak or non pak unless u are sure that u have no arguments to support urself.
Let me make it very clear. You can bvery well have the policy of admitting only pakistani sunnis on the forum. None is dying to write here. However, if u allow members, there is no reason to treat non-muslims as secondary citizens though I am aware that this is glorious pakistani tradition. Right stratgy would be having no restrictions on opinions, definitely on expression.
[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited August 01, 2000).]
ZZ
you missed the point. We are very happy to have you here, but you can only expect a reply according to the attitude you bring here. By all means say what you want...don't be surprised if you get paid back in same coin though.
[quote]
Originally posted by ZZ:
However, if u allow members, there is no reason to treat non-muslims as secondary citizens though I am aware that this is glorious pakistani tradition. Right stratgy would be having no restrictions on opinions, definitely on expression.
[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited August 01, 2000).]**
[/quote]
ZZ,
When will the message be clear? Perhaps it's true that no matter what we do or say, those of you that come with preconceived notions will never be able to understand.
If you come to the table with the attitude that the world is out to get you, then what hope have you of ever accomplishing peace? Your attitude and preconceived notion is so apparent from your comment: "glorious pakistani tradition".
And yes, we do have the right strategy. We welcome all opinions but we restrict the way you express them. If you choose to look at it in a favourable light you will see that the protection works in your favour too.