I’ve been watching people on this forum go after each other like cats and dogs. In most cases it’s like a kids fight where one child complains to the teacher that the other one started it first…ugh!
Instead of discussing subjects like civilized individuals people attack. They use sarcasm, name-calling and even go as far as attacking upbringing etc., instead of sticking to the subject and making their points with substantiating evidence.
Don’t know 'bout you guys but I’m sick of it.
I’d like to know what you folks think about this section. What should be allowed and what shouldn’t?
Should we allow non-Muslims to participate here?
Should we allow threads that question the basics of Islam?
Should we allow people to question the basics of other faiths?
As a group of intellectuals, exactly where do we stand on these issues?
Easy easy...me too watching here the same. Hence participated here very less since last 3yrs.
But there is no solution to that coz basically RELIGION is the only topic on which we put our own comments like a clergyman.This is not their fault. Look at our own nation acting like kids.
I think you have to have lil more patience. (Just Kidding)
Hope they will learn 'How to respect others?' As far as non-Muslims are concerned, let them be here. At least they are somehow getting some taste of our beloved religion.
It is ur forum. u decide. if u want to ban non-muslims, that is fine by me.
i personally almost never write here. last time i wrote was when ghazi and two other had flooded this forum with junk. i dont think i have started thread here except in ghazi times or sometimes answering mundayya or mr. xtreme.
i sometimes write here to clarify situations. these days i dont even do it.
as far as respect to others or other religions is concerned, there are pakistanis who are way more guilty than any hindus here. have u heard any profanities of level of mundayya or 2 pak from me, bombaykid, rani, andhra, anant, queer or whoever.
so trouble is not non-muslims per se. trouble is some individuals who should have been banned long ago.
Thanks for the reply. One question that came up in my mind as I read through what you wrote.....why do you feel that I am even remotely suggesting that it's the non-Muslims that cause the trouble?
In fact, of all the people around, I'm probably the MOST tolerant....simply because I believe that without diversity, we cease to grow as human beings. No matter what faith or sect we happen to adhere to, we will fail to increase our knowledge if we limit our exposure.
We like to believe that most decisions made on the forum reflect the views of the public...primarily so because the moderators are selected from amongst the membership, but if you want to take a step back and let someone else call the shots, well that again suggests lack of exposure, lack of diversity and therefore lack of growth.
The need for this thread came from recent debates and complaints being submitted. Upon the advice of our Admin team I have taken the time to review what's been going on in the Politics and Religion sections. The problems that I have seen do not have anything to do with profane language. They have to do with the quality of debate. They have to do with discussions being mixed. They have to do with personal vendettas against a person or group being carried throughout the entire section. That's what I'm complaining about.
It seems that nobody can discuss things without "throwing" stuff in each other's faces.
Rani,
Yes, I'm sure that you agree. I've been reading a lot of the material that you write and found that you rarely address any of the points that are directed to you...yet you are more than willing to direct questions back. What's with that? Is that a quality discussion?
mundyaa,
Compared to other places, you guys are GREAT, there's no doubt about that. Having said that, I still believe there's room for improvement.
This is not a place to "argue". I say that because the word has negative connotations. This environment has been created so that we can "discuss". That means exchange ideas with each other.....not insults. Get it?
I think all should be able to participate here, as long as they dont put junk and false information abuot ANY religion not just islam. And try to except the beliefs of one and other first and preach their religion later.
I think you are referring to a discussion about 'Sikh rules' where 'Chan' has already said what I was going to say and I didn't feel need to repeat everything again, Mallik kept on hounding me and pasting his post again and again. I have never pressured anybody to answer my post or questions ...or called anybody names because they have not answered unlike some people on the forum....I am only bringing this up because of your accusation....I don't have to answer something I think has already been answered.
I don't understand your comment "Yes I am sure you will agree".....did I say something wrong.
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 29, 2000).]
I’m sorry. I don’t mean to start what I am complaining about here in this thread. I do however, feel compelled to state what I have observed.
In answer to your question, no, you didn’t say anything wrong. I knew that you would agree with ZZ because he simply assumed that the blame was being put on the non-Muslims. I knew that you would agree because of your frequent claims regarding discrimination. There is no discrimination here. If there was we wouldn’t let threads that defame and disrespect our religion run at all. I’m sure you know that we do have the ability to delete anything we don’t like…we choose not to.
I disqualified ZZ’s assumption as I have repeatedly disqualified your accusations of discrimination.
Since we are on the subject I’m curious to know if you participate or even if you are aware of any other forum where people of the sub-continent discuss issues on politics and religions as they do here. All the places that I know of are entirely a farce. Discussions there are reduced to vulgarity and profanity within the first five posts.
Btw, when I gave example of your approach to debate I wasn’t referring to any particular thread. I’ve noticed that you do that quite often. In fact, I could go back and pull out examples if you haven’t edited them out. The other quite common method that I’ve associated with the nick “Rani” is the “I Rest my Case.” only to return three posts later approach.
Since u mentioned the problem and then asked question 'Should we allow non-Muslims to participate here?' I answered the question as a non muslim. basically, i said that i have no problems with the ban though it will not solve you problem.
I felt that was a partisan way of looking at things, though u could believe otherwise.
In fact, given the intellectual nature and sophistication of posts of non-muslims on this forum you should have asked 'should we allow only non-muslims on this forum?' ha ha. i mean, at least none of them sinks to the levels of you know who.
[This message has been edited by ZZ (edited July 30, 2000).]
What do they say about teaching and old dog new tricks? Yaar, simple see baat nahin samajh kay day rahay aap. I'm trying to get you to look above and beyond but you refuse to.
This type of one-track thinking makes me wonder who's to blame. Either you drop an issue and look beyond it or you keep harping on it. Who do you think would be favoured and successful?
With regards to sinking....you have no idea what we have edited out. There have been plenty of non-Muslims that have spewed filth much worse than those you continue to blame. I could direct you to some examples but then I would be dwelling like you are, wouldn't I?
And one more thing...it's getting rather comical to see people criticizing this board for this, that and the other type of behaviour while they continue to participate. Exactly what does that mean? Obviously it's not as bad as they claim otherwise they would have left long ago.
And yes, that applies to everyone, not just the non-Muslims.
In fact, given the intellectual nature and sophistication of posts of non-muslims on this forum you should have asked ‘should we allow only non-muslims on this forum?’ ha ha. i mean, at least none of them sinks to the levels of you know who.<<<
hardly true… are u saying that ppl with nicks like pakistanigharib bigbull and others like them were all Pakistani?
and as far as your assumption that you guys have been posting very breathtaking posts here… well you just said that you stopped posting sometime ago. and as for the rest of you, they also run from time to time when faced with HARD FACTS… and when you are made to look inside.
of course, i am joking.. i dont have such high opinion of myself. as far as my not posting here, religion normally bores me. perhaps it has to do with being an almost atheist. so it becomes more of a discussion which has no direct relevence unlike, say kashmir problem.
Btw, when I gave example of your approach to debate I wasn't referring to any particular thread. I've noticed that you do that quite often. In fact, I could go back and pull out examples if you haven't edited them out.<<
Very few people on the forum answer each and every question posed, most participants are selective as to what they answer...you can almost pull any participants post and you will find that.
The other quite common method that I've associated with the nick "Rani" is the "I Rest my Case." only to return three posts later approach. I believe you use that one quite often too.<<
You must have also noticed that many times partcipants get personal and start attacking me or my family ect. the choice would be to attack their families or withdraw ...I don't like to attack people personally or their families.. but if somebody else comes along and wants to discuss without personal attacks, I may willing to discuss.
BTW, I would never go back now edit anything...why would I do that.
[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 30, 2000).]
I think we should not treat any religion as a secret cow and should discuss everything we could about it but unfortunately not everyone of us knows enough about all religions to discuss and participate actively. I also think while doing so we should not refer to religious personalities in any deragatory or insulting way that hurts other participants' feelings.
Another aspect of religious discussions is that it should be to understand how the other religions works or what are their philosophies. Purpose of the discussions should not be to prove which religious philosophy is superior than which one becuz that lands us into the sensitive territory of insusling religious figures and name calling.
Of course profanities of any kind against any one, including participants, should not be tolerated.
Actually the better part of the population is quite adept at answering questions that are posed to them. Only those that are debating without evidence to back themselves up are those that play the avoidance game.
With regards to getting personal, frankly Rani, you've done it as many times so I'm not even going to go there.
Chann-ji,
I wish more people would take the approach that you have recommended. Unfortunately it seems that everyone remembers respect etc., only when it refers to their own faith. Why is that?
In fact, of all the people around, I'm probably the MOST tolerant....simply because I believe that without diversity, we cease to grow as human beings. No matter what faith or sect we happen to adhere to
Tell that to your Mullahs dripping with hatred,
As of now you can't show a photograph of yourself or listen to music in Taliban controlled Afghanistan.
What tolerance are you talking about ?
I am not quoting from an Indian source but from 'Christian Sciencxe Monitor' which you have to agree is a third party if not an independent one.
As far as I can see from your posts so far, you think of this forum as some kind of war-ground to counter even a sensible statement/question with not something relative to the issue, rather just any ant-muslim accusation you can pluck out of the blue.
What has someone's tolerance level got to do with an accusation that some other individual; just because they might from the same religion, thinks something a different way.
That is exactly like saying to a Hindu(for example) who's trying to promote sensible discussion, that "Tell that to your Bal Thackeray dripping with.."
Actually the better part of the population is quite adept at answering questions that are posed to them. Only those that are debating without evidence to back themselves up are those that play the avoidance game<<
I disagree with what you are saying, but this your forum, you can think or say whatever you like.
Time makes me late, so you should wait! 