Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

Its said a lot of times that non sindhi/non-karachi residents don’t know the real issues and make opinions based on stereotypes and pre-conceived notions and biases.

So, i want some questions answered, if thas okay.

ALSO - IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH NAWAZ SHARIF OR PTI -so kindly refrain from derailing the questions.

Do Sindhis believe that Establishment is inherently biased against them - and it takes action to the detriment of Sindhis?

If Yes, is that the reason why PPP gets elected everytime?

Do people prefer PPP and their style of governance as compared to anything from ‘Establishment’?

Do people of sindh support PPP in its recent stand against Rangers?


Do Karachians (MQM/Urdu Speakers) believe that Establishment is inherently biased them - and it takes action to the detriment of (MQM/Urdu Speakers)?

If Yes, is that the reason why MQM gets elected everytime?

Do people prefer MQM and their style of governance as compared to anything from ‘Establishment’?

Do people Karachisn support MQM in its recent stand against Rangers?

Finally, what would people of Sindh/Karachi deem as ideal scenario?

A- Rangers Action to Continue (even if it means some extra judicial actions and targetting of political people and targetting of corruption)

B - No Rangers need to be involved - it should be upto local elected representatives to make decisions

C - Ranger Action to Continue - but with prior approval/consent of existing political setup.

Since i don’t live in karachi or experience the ground situation - i want to know how people feel genuinely about this and whats their preferred course of action.

Thanks.

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

You need to add another category:

Allow same old tamsaha to continue - give MQM full lease for another 10 years, and wait for people of Karachi to cry they want peace and end to violence. Then call in "fauj" after every 10 years, do an operation against MQM, only for MQM to come back even stronger with more public support and vote through painting Army as Muhajir dushman organisation. So the tamasha of sending Fauj back after 10 months, calling fauj back after 10 years shall continue for few more decades...

Karachi is urban FATA. Can't live with or without Army's danda.

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

Your approach is much appreciated. This should be the way to carry the discussion. But as the environment has already been polluted, I would rather avoid commenting on anything. As I know the usual fate of such threads... Sindhis / Urdu speaking are racist to the core and xenophobic.... blablabla.

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

Its somewhat covered here.

[QUOTE]
B - No Rangers need to be involved - it should be upto local elected representatives to make decisions
[/QUOTE]

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

You can answer the questions asked, one by one - no need to worry about the 'fate' of this thread. When the discussion starts with accusation then u can say its wrong - but i asked very simple questions - you can reply only to those.

If you don't answer - how am I supposed to find out the answer?

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

Well you will find many non-Karachittes who are literally antra-yami (all known) about Karachi, without stepping in the city. They are very much enlightened and can enlighten others very well :)

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

I don't think people of Karachi/Sindh is a monolithic entity. Karachi, especially, is very diverse with people subscribing to a spectrum of political and social ideas.

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

Yes, lack of alternatives that can atleast provide a semblance of protecting Sindhi's safety and prosperity is the reason PPP gets votes.

Probably. Rangers is a federal force dominated by "Big Brothers"

Yes, not just establishment but even other ethnic groups (Sindhi's Pathans) as well are not trusted by mohajirs for good reasons. They see other ethnic groups as adversaries that are a threat to their safety and prosperity.

Yes. MQM has prevented any other mohajir group from taking hold. The Pathan party (ANP/PTI), Sindhi party (PPP) or Punjabi Party (N league, PTI) are not going to get their vote until they show that these other parties care about safety and prosperity of them. The religious parties are not favored by them either on the whole as they also are looked as oblivious to the safety and prosperity of mahajirs

Evidence of history shows the answer is yes.

Their supporters do. Rangers are a foreign force dominated by "Big Brothers".

A-Anything that provides safety and prosperity.

IMHO

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

Give your perspective sarkar and help him understanding the ground situation. Don't worry about other factors. It is a good thread and we need to post more to unravel these questions .

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

Done

Done.

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

MQM has lost a lot of support among mohajirs in Karachi as evident by the lower turnout in LB election. There are just no good alternatives. None of the parties appear to care much about Karachi and mohajirs. PPP is completely Sindhi centric. Apparently the current Sindh cabinet has non one from Karachi/Mohajirs (same at federal level). Their representatives in Karachi are the Lyari gangs. Given a choice between the local MQM goon or a Lyari gang criminal, MQM is the better choice. PTI had support and hopes but they are in bed with Jamaat and have become party that appears to care only about Pathan interests N league have no qualms about being showing themselves as a Punjeab centric party. If N league had given some representation to a Karachiite in the cabinet and resolve some of the local issues, they could win votes but no. What is preventing PPP or N league from starting a Mass transit program in Karachi which the transport mafia has fought against for so many decades? Nothing if they really cared.

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

Most people will tell you that they had been hearing the rhetoric of MQM losing the Muhajir support for past 30 years. I think this rhetoric might become slightly more believable when an actual 'against' vote develops over MQM. Otherwise, less people coming out to vote for MQM, and the rest of the public sitting at home feeling so assured of their victory doesn't really count as 'losing support'. It basically means there's no political competition and people don't bother voting when they already know the outcome. But Democracy is as much about against vote as it is about for votes.

I can understand why in a city like Karachi it is so easy to sell the propaganda that PTI only focuses on Pathan interests simply because it has government in KPK and its leader is a Pakhtoon. But pray tell me which of the following PTI Karachi leaders are Pathan or KPK imports: Arif Alvi, Ali Zaidi, Imran Ismail, Naz Baloch, Faisal Vawda (plus Naeem ul Haq and late Zahra Apa). So much for being Pathan party, name me one Karachi leader who is actually a Pakhtun or a KPK import. All PTI Karachi leaders, strong or weak, good or bad are as local Karchiites (mostly Muhajir) as they get. But still they are still the victims of racial attacks, ethnic propaganda and xenophobic slurs *in their own city.
*
It's beyond shocking and disgusting.

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

^^^ It is going to take more than the window dressing of a few local leaders, even if that is a good start. People are smarter than that. They can see where the party's concerns are and they see PTI standing with JI, JUI and ANP types. They can see MQM getting roughed up by rangers and establishment whereas PTI gets favorable treatment. Imran and PTI has the most support after MQM among mohajirs of all parties. PTI can win only if they actually raised some voices on issues that concern mohajirs in Karachi. MQM has made a living out of lip service against the quota system. Can Imran Khan do that? Can he/PTI utter a word about mass transit? Can he or PTI raise voice to empower the elected mayor? Can he say anything against the wholesale encroachment by land mafia in Karachi? What is Imran Khan's political position in Karachi other than opposition of existing parties while uniting with JI? All his social projects are focused in Upper Punjab and KPK. Can he start a project in Karachi/Sindh? Finding support among Mohajirs against MQM should be pretty easy as MQM besides bringing nothing but violence have also consistently failed to do anything on the issues (non-representation/low representation of mohajirs in power, quota system, stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh, transport mafia, etc.) that made it popular. A smart politician can just issue some favorable statements asking for mass transit or local power or sufficient representation in assemblies and gain sympathy votes but just like all other parties IK have failed there and MQM have won again by default despite idiot Altaf Hussain.

N league and establishment is even worse. They couldn't even take advantage of the golden opportunity of nailing the murderous Altaf on Imran Farooq case. They have clearly turned a criminal case into a political case getting tried in media. People can see through that. People are smarter than what establishment think of them. By their own action, the cases against MQM are not credible any more in the eyes of mohajirs in Karachi.

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

^ This is not a "dressing of few local leaders", some of these Karachi leaders are founding PTI members and life long close aides of Imran. Remember PTI won in KPK when it had no real representation of Pakhtuns in their party. But sadly in Karachi, PTI leaders are always made to prove their Muhajirness and Karachiness to MQM and their supporters/sympathizers. Why this culture of ethnic xenophobia or is it simply a class divide? It's not fun doing politics in such environment.

You have kind of proved the point that if PTI is serious about gaining support in Karachi, it will have to indirectly on directly jump on the ethnic bandwagon through providing lip service on quota system. It seems a thoroughly defined position on quota system is the ultimate litmus test of loyalty with Muhajir vote bank. Whether like MQM, PTI does anything practical about it, at some point they will need touch upon this issue to raise popular slogans and stroke emotions which MQM is so good at doing.

Yes, there will indeed be a time when PTI will decide that its policy of taking a moderate position on Sindhi-Muhajir divide won't yield any results. Imran will have to close all doors on Sindhi support by asking Karachi to be made into a separate province (ultimate power weapon of MQM) and by going belligerent on quota system. But at the same time, he will not win the trust of Muhajir vote back until he takes definite position on these issues. It is what it is.

But the onus is on Imran and PTI, whether they are ready to compromise on their aspiration of all inclusive national party by jumping in ethnic quagmire of Sindh for sake of Karachi or for rural Sindh votes. Wishy washy rhetoric of non-violence, unity, de-criminalisation has no market out there.

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

Rangers/Army cannot make permanent peace. It is political forces that need to take over after the temporary fix. But it appears PPP want absolute authority of the whole province and MQM dont want PPP's role in Karachi.

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

There is genuine innocence in non Karachiites where they use their common sense and basic humanity to assume that violence would be Karachi's biggest issue (like it was in KPK), when clearly it is not, as it now appears from many Karachiites' own views. Trust me, any normal person would be happy to say that a city which has picked up 12,000 dead bodies in mere 5-6 years would be yearning for peace and de-criminalisation of their streets and political offices. Would you say Imran was wrong in speaking against political mafias? rampart violence? Crime? Target killings? No LG system? Ghettoisation? Daily strikes? Ghost employment? Politicised police? Political appointments? Capital flight? China cutting? Terrorised traders and business community?

These are the issues Imran based his Karachi campaign on, if none of these issues are Karachi issues then that's fine. Maybe people outside of Karachi are really misled about situation in Karachi.

If finding support amongst Muhajirs was as easy you claim to be, then MQM would have been punished by their own community since they have brought nothing but violence and ghettoisation to the city (as claimed by you). But we have seen how it is next to impossible to gain Muhajir support even when MQM is at its weakest. This reminds me, 4-5 years ago, people used to say, you weaken MQM's militant hold on Karachi and see how Karachiites kick them out. So really, these are all feel good talks.

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

Feudalism and tribalism is also a factor in PPP continously winning from interior sindh.Someones a wadera,pir or sardar.Sindh has the highest number of landless farmers.The zardaris ,bhuttos and qaim ali shahs are known to have big landholdings.

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

PTI does have attraction in Karachiites but it is still not very well connected, PTI's statements and actions have impacted on some supporters as well as 2013 elections and then disappearance of PTI candidates.

If PTI or any other party wants to really win the elections (MNA/MPA/LG) they will need to fully maintain presence in public and help getting things done for them... social media campaign followed by a short rally of few car/bikes and a public speech is not going to make a big difference. My 2c.

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

PTI will of course have some 'attraction' here and there, but the point is, Imran and PTI will never achieve a breakthrough in Sindh until they recognise the reality of ethno-nationalism there. PTI will have to decide which part of Sindh it needs to appeal to - the rural or the urban. They can't have support in both!

Whether its quota system or division of Sindh: PTI either needs to passionately oppose it or support it to stroke emotions on either side. Yes ethno- nationalism is the ultimate reality.

There is simply not enough 'against' votes for MQM despite all evil they have done, so bit naive to assume that magically there will be 'for' votes for PTI if they fix themselves here and there. The situation is not as simple as some people make it look like.

Re: Few Question to Sindhi/Karachiites brothers.

Before anyone bring in PMLN and Lahore. Trust me, Lahories will be the first one to kick out PMLN the day party turns their beautiful city into a weapon infested ghettoized war zone with no go areas. No matter how less than perfect the alternative is, Lahories will not shy away from punishing PMLN for destroying their city.

Ask any resident Nooras for further confirmation.