As you all well know, there is a stigma in Pakistan against infertile women. If people find out the woman is infertile, she may not get any rishtaas, and if they find out after marriage, her in-laws can make her life hell by forcing a divorce, or bringing in another wife against the consent of the infertile one.
My personal stance is if you’re infertile, big deal. Adopt. Too many orphans in this world anyway. Plus, thank your lucky stars you dont have to give birth (its kinda painful).
How do you guys see the situation?
Men: Would you marry an infertile woman, knowing she is? If she didn’t tell you or she didn’t know until after marriage, what would you do?
Women: Would it make you feel inferior if you were infertile, and how would you deal with it if no one proposed and you yourself were rejected if you did propose, based on fertility? Also, what would you do if your in-laws decide to pull in another woman, and yet they dont give you a divorce, so you’re forced to live with another wife who can have kids…?
If this post is in regard to Pakistani women and chastity is such a big deal in Pakistan, and it is, then how would people know if the woman is infertile before marriage? And if they did know, why would they spread that information around, especially since an unmarried woman is considered a burden?
My stepmother is infertile and even though my father wanted a son, they never adopted or went to a doctor to consider other options, at least not as far as I'm aware. It's always interesting to see my stepmother with kids. She never talks to them. In fact, she's never even held her own sister's daughter.
Anyway, I don't think it should act as a decideing factor when considering marrying someone or having a serious maybe-we-ought-to-have-a-baby-together relationship but in Pakistan, marriages are for a large part NOT based on love, their basic purpose is to bow to tradition and yield progeny. So if people consider stuff like religious inclination, status, etc then why not fertility or lack thereof?
kado kaki...i'm ready to marry her :)
waise itz easy to judge otherz 4 their actionz...when u'll face such situationz then i'll c how u'll handle it :)
Yes that's true ke it is easy to talk abt it and judge others but when u have to handle n face it thu it would be serious matter . well i will adopt a baby :) i love kids .
To answer one question, in one case I know, the girl had an operation at the age of 8 for some other problem, but at that time the doctors told her parents that due to the complications inside her, her chances of becoming a mother are extremely remote. Something to do with blood coming back into kidneys when ovaries are simulated or something, I am not sure.
In any case, they never told anyone. The girl got married at the age of 24. Her husband never knew about this problem. They tried for an year. The girl got continuous infections, and after repeated trips to the doctor, the guy finally found out the whole story. He felt cheated in the sense, that if they already knew, they should have told him before marriage, instead of telling him, one year after the marriage. He divorced her within 3 months. Its hard to tell, whether he would have married her in the first place, if he knew she could not conceive. All in all, it was a sad story.
On to the main question... regardless of how politically correct we try to be... in such matters, there is a definite emotional response. Most people want a baby of their own, a part of themselves. Someone else's baby might cater to their emotional need to care for a baby, but it doesn't fill the void of having your own flesh and blood.
If a couple finds out, after their marriage, that one or both of them can not conceive, then they may treat it differently, by looking at other options i.e. IVF, adoption etc. But its really hard to tell, why would one spouse be willing to even tie the knot if he or she already knew that their partner is infertile. If both are confirmed infertile then its probably a moot point. Not to say that an infertile person can not marry a normal healthy person, as sometimes, in marriage, there are other considerations, e.g. they may like each other so much that fertility is of relatively lower importance to them. Whether that state of euphoria is short-lived or not is something only time will tell. But for all reasons of political correctness, more power to them! :)
I think it is a man's right to know beforehand if the woman is infertile.
Fertility is something i see as important and as a personal thing wouldn't marry someone who was infertile. That is not due to the fact that i look down at someone who is infertile and think they are less a woman. It is simply due to the fact that i want children and i believe i am within my rights to set fertility as a prerequisite.
However other people may feel different and children may not be such a big thing so in essence infertility is not a big thing. Faisal made a good point about adoption in that it is not for everyone. Everyone is different and what may be important to one may not be important to another.
Just to turn the tables, how would you feel if you married a man who was unable to concieve?
I think it is a man's right to know beforehand if the woman is infertile.<<< >>>Fertility is something i see as important and as a personal thing wouldn't marry someone who was infertile.
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What about woman's right to know about you in case you are shooting blanks? You seem to be single, how are you so sure about your own fertility?
I think the important thing is, whether the person knows it before he or she actually gets married. In Eastern culture, due to comparatively lower instances of pre-marital sex and relationships, chances are that the couple will find out about such things together, and not before marriage. In which case, they need to deal with it, depending on their own circumstances and their feelings for each other. A person may find out about it, in cases of some medical problems (like I explained earlier).
If, for some reason, a person already knows that he or she is infertile (or have significantly reduced chances of fathering a child or getting pregnant), BEFORE they even got married.... then in my opinion
(1) this is a significant enough fact about yourself that honesty requires you to disclose it to your proposed spouse; and
(2) be prepared that you may get rejected for this reason alone.
Channmahi
And did i say it is not a woman's right to know about whether a man is shooting blanks. I asked how a woman would feel if they married a man who is infertile, so answer the question instead of making personal comments about me. I gave a personal opinion as i would like to have children and in the same way i am sure that women themselves do not want an infertile man.
And just to answer your question about how does one know they are fertile and your reference to how i know I am fertile. I'll give you a simple example. If a woman's sisters or mothers have had the ability to have a lot of children, you can assume that so will the girl. It is the same with men. It comes down to simple genetics. So yes i do know if i will be capable of having children Insha'allah. And just like a man has a right to make a choice, a woman has the right from Islam to choose her husband so I stick by my personal opinion.
So Channmahi please read beyond the first line of my post before passing judgement.
My grand mother had her first baby after 11 years of marriege, she says her husband (my grand father) or his family never was rude, or mis behaved with her in anyway, infact the subject was never raised/discussed in home at all for all those 11 years.
My Uncle’s wife was infertile, my uncle never thought of second marriege, or all thesed things that were mentioned. After few years when they visit UK, (one of the family memeber who is a doctor in UK) suggested to get tested there & with the help of the operation everything went fine in future.
One of the another girl i know (old class fellow) was rapped when 8, she claims shes infertile, her fiance is aware of her rape & infertility, & he claims to love her more since he find out that.
Yes its a big deal in Pakistan, luckily i never witnessed a worst condition in those cases, only the positive ones.
Infertility is hereditary huh, sheikh ji? I will have to check this out. Not everything is genetic by the way, and many things are not 100 percent genetic. So, before people go around believing that natural infertility is hereditary, please do let me check up on it.
As for turning the tables. If I married a guy and he told me before marriage that he was aware he was infertile, I'd be okay with it.
If he hid it from me until after marriage, I would be upset in that HE LIED and began the marriage with a lie, but I wouldn't take drastic measures. I'd wave it off, and tell him not to be afraid of telling me stuff like that in the future.
And if we found out after marriage, and neither of us knew he had "blank shots", then again, I'd be okay with it.
I know the urge is there to have a child of your own flesh in blood, but I would definitely not regret adopting children. After all, if you can't reproduce, then you can't reproduce. Religiousy speaking, (listen up sheikh ji), infertility would be God-given. I know there is some hadith that encourages men to marry fertile women (although there is some discrepency on the connotation), but I dont think that a man has any right to reject a woman based on her infertility, especially if she's got the guts to face him and tell him she's infertile. I think that kind of woman is strong and honest, and would make a great wife on that basis. And I dont think that having children of your own is THAT Islamically important, otherwise God wouldn't have made infertile people.
Pcg :nono:
Most 51 to 99% people when they mary have expectation of having there own biological children
As much as i am in favour of adoption & there has been many adopted members in my extended family specially orphans etc.you cant blame some one of having your own child b/c adopted children can acquire whatever you want to teach & train him but cannot have your genes & some people may be very fond of there & there family traits hopefully good ones.
Islam & almost all family recognize that right PCG ,and you are not right that you have to have permission of first wife if she is too jelous for second wife who can full fill that defeciency .
we are jum;ping ahead of our time on the belief of science that science will make every old point irrelevent .Yes if you have insulin defeciency you have insulion injection for diabetic but still it is hell of lot better not to need that .Yes there is adoption & yes there are invetro fertilization ,there is abortion prevention ,there is selectionof ovum likely to survive ..etc.etc. & should be used by all means but the importence to some men or even women to have biological child is a right & should be respected.
In case of men i think a woman can demand divorce or enmancipation on ground of impotency ,low sperm count or any other reason when the fault is that of man
gymno, if the family wants to send out another proposal to make up for the deficiency, then that is the family's right indeed. However, consent and happiness of the first wife is highly necessary, because she did not go into the marriage expecting her husband to reject her and take another wife. The first wife also has the right to take a divorce. I'm talking of situations where they dont let the infertile wife get a divorce, so she's like living in a situation she doesn't like.
And look, you can say what you want, Islamically. Polygamy is certainly permissable, but monogamy is definitely promoted over polygamy, and happiness of both wife and husband factors into issues like these. And the FACT is that when a woman is infertile, it is HIGHLY insensitive to not talk the issue out with the infertile wife and jump after another woman. The psychological damage is too great for me to believe that it would be Islamically permissable.
Keep in mind, guys, that you dont have to bring only Islam into this. Your personal preference is good to share too.
Generally if a woman has a family full of fertile women then it is likely that she is fertile too.
If I had a choice between a fertile woman or an infertile woman the fertile woman will definitely be first choice as i would like to have children of my own.
However if during my marriage my wife was to develop a problem eg a miscarriage which stops her from having children(Allah forbid) then i would keep her as a wife as it is not her fault and it is my responsibility to help her through.
If she knew she was infertile and lied then i would be upset and it could lead to an end to a marriage as on thing i am entitled to is honesty as a husband so expect nothing less.
I share Gymnoplast views that it is natural for a man and woman to want children of their own and as i stated if i had the choice in who to marry, i would marry someone fertile. However if i was to end up in a situation where my wife suffered and became fertile i would not leave her on that basis, the only time i would consider leaving over this issue is if she lies.
If it's not her fault then why leave her?....at the same time if i know someone is infertile then i will not get married to them as children of my own are very important to me.
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*Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
Keep in mind, guys, that you dont have to bring only Islam into this. Your personal preference is good to share too.
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Well, this is all nice and good, but if people are sharing their personal preferences, then the others should be well-advised to accept differences of opinion. We can't expect people to expose their personal thoughts (like sheikh did) and then we turn around and give them a third-degree by criticizing them or asking them to justify their opinions (religiously or sociologically).
For PCG, e.g. having own kids is not that important (for some reason she thinks its not "THAT Islamically important" too). For Sheikh and Gymna, they are important. Fine. To each his/her own. Political correctness aside, and public declarations to the contrary, most people I know (almost 100%, actually) do feel strongly about this issue. All things being equal, they'd rather go for a fertile spouse.
Lets refrain from criticizing the person, and instead focus on the argument, pros and cons either way.
i've seen so many infertile couples in my family n they r living a happy healthy life... but they didnt opt for adoption either... its their personal choice but then i sure wondered about it... they must hav their reasons... all i want to say is.. fertility is sumthin that we take for granted..we moan n groan.. without even knowin wut infertile couples muss b goin through..
If i were in that situation.. i probably adopt .. wuts the big deal anyway... nobody is perfect .... rite? we still havto learn to accept people as they are .. with all their imperfections...
Assalamualaikum
I think it a sensetive thing for woman or man to being in situation like infartility, but I would say as everyone above mentioned that he/she should be aware of the othe partner's disability or so. BUT I don't think that any family will allow their daughter to tell the truth to her husband to be (especially in Pakistani and Indian culture) imagine in a society like Pakistan where Girls are not gatting good proposals even if they are good looking ,Educated and "Modest", How would they get good proposals if they already tell that they are not capable of becoming mothers? Telling the husband to be or wife to be Carries a great risk. I don't think one can be that brave especially dependent girl who can see that there are 3 more sisters who needs to get marry after her marriage CAN SHE DARE TO DO IT when her family will evantually come to know that she did it. so I just wante dto point it out that this could be the situation as well. PCG I don't foun myself brave like you I would not prefer a person who is infetile when i have choice. But yes after marriage it would be different for me. Like I might be able to accept him/ her as he/she is or might not depending on relationship and behaviour how he/she treats me.
