Re: Feminine Charms
Clearly my tongue wasn't planted firmly enough in my cheek.
Re: Feminine Charms
Ethically, it's a bit shady that women do this but the world isn't perfect so if other men are naive enough to get played then let them get played. Ironically, it's as easy as turning attractive women down (playfully) and calling them out on their BS to get stuff from them (not that I do it ;)).
Women definitely have it easier in terms of getting favours from men and I think the reason for that is because men are wired to want to please (woo) women. And yes, men are scum enough that we want every attractive woman we see (just sex, not talking about emotions here). I read an interesting article about this; imagine being an attractive girl. For most of your life, almost every man you've met has wanted to sleep with you and treated you as if you were special. It's almost like being a celebrity. Of course your personality is going to be affected by this.
The only place I really have a problem with women doing this is in the workplace. Anywhere else, they're free to try, and any man who gets played should stop being a chump. There's a simple test to see if you should go out of your way to help. Think of a girl who annoys you, who you don't find attractive at all, and imagine that she asked you to do her favour. Would you do it?
Sometimes I feel like the person you were in high school stays with you (at least a little bit) for your whole life.
Re: Feminine Charms
I agree that women using their femininity in the work place is wrong, although it does happen.
Although sometimes I have noticed I am not even doing anything and me and other girls get favoured by males in the work and teaching environment.
For example. there was a teaching session and in that session there were 4 boys and me and my friend who are girls.
The teacher was a male doctor, much older I would say late 30's.
In this session the doctor was going round asking all of us questions in order, but for some reason he would ask me and my friend easy questions or completely skipped us out!
Part of me was offended, part of me was flattered and part of me breathed a sigh of releif because some of those questions were hard!
Re: Feminine Charms
Mind you, feminine wiles aren't always premeditated. Some women don't know how to relate to a man any other way. Factor in cultural/social conditioning (Cosmo's 10-ways-to-drive-men-crazy lists). I wouldn't confine the use of charm to one sex, and I'd also expand the definition to include kissing ass/flattery to achieve ends (common in the workplace). But yes, it's true that most women don't have to try. On planes somebody will always offer to lift my baggage into the overhead bin before I've even found my seat. It's usually a white dude though. Desi males, the attractive beasts, will chew gum and watch me struggling with a 70 lb suitcase before falling over. They're not being dicks, they just don't want to give themselves a hernia.
Sure men employ charm. Strategically. The target has to be receptive though. Remember the scene in You've got Mail, where Tom flirts with the female cashier so she'll agree to run Meg's credit card in a cash-only line? He lowered his voice to a suggestive baritone, gave her that look, and smiled. It's no secret flirtation works. Personal anecdotes include guys I've worked with who brought on the smolder because they wanted something (no, not that). Did I relent? No, but I enjoyed the show b/c women are sexual objectifiers too (look, if you're working it, who am I to deny you an enthralled audience). Seduction ranges from the undiscernably subtle to the crude, and sexuality informs almost everything we do. It's not a gender blind world.
As for patronizing instincts, that's an interesting discussion. CM said something about self degradation earlier which I agree with. Yet upon closer inspection it's the woman actively patronizing the man when she operates with the belief that his brain is not located in his skull. Yeah I think I just went there.
fewer women are receptive; to fewer men; in fewer situations.
The difference is that for most women using their charms/seduction and engaging with men on *that *level is almost always an option. Its almost like a trump card. For men the risk is always there that it will backfire. So perhaps it wouldnt be wrong to treat this as a gender specific phenomenon.
I dont know if my choice of the word patronizing was appropriate or not, i actually meant men have an instinct to facilitate and sponsor women, notwithstanding the ulterior motive.
Re: Feminine Charms
.....she operates with the belief that his brain is not located in his skull. Yeah I think I just went there.
you cant have it both ways.
Re: Feminine Charms
Is it just me or is Uzair really angry about something?
Re: Feminine Charms
This is what girls mean when we say we want equality.
For example, when I was a TA, all my colleagues were males. And for some odd reason they could never find anything else to say to me other than complimenting me on my outfit. So I had to put a stop to that, and prove myself to be equally as intelligent as them… 
. Took me 6 months.
Re: Feminine Charms
Your colleagues might have been correct in their assessment.
Re: Feminine Charms
Ethically, it's a bit shady that women do this but the world isn't perfect so if other men are naive enough to get played then let them get played. Ironically, it's as easy as turning attractive women down (playfully) and calling them out on their BS to get stuff from them (not that I do it ;)).
Women definitely have it easier in terms of getting favours from men and I think the reason for that is because men are wired to want to please (woo) women. And yes, men are scum enough that we want every attractive woman we see (just sex, not talking about emotions here). I read an interesting article about this; imagine being an attractive girl. For most of your life, almost every man you've met has wanted to sleep with you and treated you as if you were special. It's almost like being a celebrity. Of course your personality is going to be affected by this.
The only place I really have a problem with women doing this is in the workplace. Anywhere else, they're free to try, and any man who gets played should stop being a chump. There's a simple test to see if you should go out of your way to help. Think of a girl who annoys you, who you don't find attractive at all, and imagine that she asked you to do her favour. Would you do it?
Sometimes I feel like the person you were in high school stays with you (at least a little bit) for your whole life.
On the contrary i have seen that men with skills of trade have it much easier than charming women. Women can get small things done and get small favours but there are few men who will go too far or bestow too much on charming women and they are more concious of others noticing this behavior. On the other hand women in authority more commonly have their 'favourites' or 'pets' and are more likely to be oblivious to it and will do a lot more for their favourite male than a man would.
Re: Feminine Charms
Your colleagues might have been correct in their assessment.
Or these men were't willing to accept a good female TA?
Re: Feminine Charms
On the contrary i have seen that men with skills of trade have it much easier than charming women. Women can get small things done and get small favours but there are few men who will go too far or bestow too much on charming women and they are more concious of others noticing this behavior.** On the other hand women in authority more commonly have their 'favourites' or 'pets' and are more likely to be oblivious to it and will do a lot more for their favourite male than a man would.**
argh, how true is this, and very childish. But I think it changes as the level of education/skill required/experience increases :S That's my observation, there does come a point when a woman is known for her work, like a man is, rather than these weird things on the side.
Re: Feminine Charms
Or these men were't willing to accept a good female TA?
lol, why would men purposefully not want to accept a good TA. TAship isn't even that great of an issue, most people do ok and in an educational setting I don't think male students are out to judge women in such a manner. I see a lot of encouragement.
Re: Feminine Charms
^In any organisation worth its salt people become known of thir skills quickly, how much they are rewarded for it is a diferent matter.
Re: Feminine Charms
lol, why would men purposefully not want to accept a good TA. TAship isn't even that great of an issue, most people do ok and in an educational setting I don't think male students are out to judge women in such a manner. I see a lot of encouragement.
It's not about it being a great issue. And not all educational institutions are equally as encouraging in minimizing gender discrimination. While most men I have worked with are indifferent to gender, but not in this case. I was the first female to be given this position, and it was tough to say the least. And being Muslim made it even worse.
So it took six moths for the inappropriate compliments and the underlying sexual harassment to stop. If I would have taken this to the Dean, I would look weak but the problem would have been solved very quickly. But I chose to handle it myself.
Re: Feminine Charms
Clearly my tongue wasn't planted firmly enough in my cheek.
Sadly nope. Shame really.
Re: Feminine Charms
Ugh. so now when I work (if by some miracle I start working again) not only do I have to worry about doing my WORK I have ot think about being a female too!!! 
Re: Feminine Charms
Is it just me or is Uzair really angry about something?
Yeah, and I don't even mean this in a mocking way......but at times I wonder if he got turned down by attractive, average, and ugly girls alike.
Re: Feminine Charms
who was that guy who argued nonstop about the merits of paying for sex? I forget his nick but he did make interesting arguments
Re: Feminine Charms
Has it occured to you that may be you weren’t really good enough for 6 months?? and it had nothing to do with your gender and might be just that it could take 6 months to make an assessment??
why is it that…whenever girls see a challenge/hurdle…its always somehow construed as gender discrimination?? 
Re: Feminine Charms
So a woman uses the man's other brain so to speak to get things done. I am wondering if its insulting to a man or a commentary on a woman's self esteem that she can not compete like equals when it comes to such matters and must employ the potential for sexual favours as their best method to get the job done.
This is kinda redundant considering my agreement with your self-degradation point. But to humor you :
if other men are naive enough to get played then let them get played. Any man who gets played should stop being a chump.
Whether this behavior damns the woman more than the man, I'd say the manipulation of another's weakness says something about both the party that employs it and the party that falls for it. But for the sake of argument : what of men who flirt with female superiors in the workplace to curry favor? Are they suffering from low self-esteem, or do they operate with the assumption that they're dealing with a bimbo who'll lap it right up? Objectification isn't the preserve of menfolk anymore (although I can and do argue that women can seldom win the game of objectification for the very reason our sexuality is more vulnerable than a man's). Yet for obvious reasons we analyze this behavior in women as a lack of low self esteem and/or incompetence, whereas for men it's just strategic maneuvering as they have the privilege of not having anything to prove. Can the conventional roles of object (woman) and objectifier (man) be interchanged?
/endrhetoric.