Feedback Re: Poetry

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1

While we appreciate efforts of the mods and the administrators for introducing these
changes to the Poetry section, I would like to mention that there is a dire need of
active participation of mods to make this section more lively. I understand that
participants of Poetry are people of passion - neither they stir controversy nor attract any and given this very fact, we assume this section does not need 24-hour
patrolling and leave our mods enough space to be energetic enough to actively
participate in the forum and be from us (like other forums and their mods.)

I would also like to state that new ideas should be tried reqularly like bait bazi
on a certain topic or inviting aashaar from members on a certain picture.

I hope our mods will be featuring regularly in our threads - we need you :~)
Thanx

2

No Use Amal! :-)
DeSiMuNdA i have requested here before this, that please make a Mod one of those persons who are really active and sensible at the same time, we can have pool on this , let us mention some names and then you can see who is really popular here and visits this form regularly and ofcourse that person can take care of this form bit better ( i think )
will you be doing something like that????
PS :- i am not against you or Sehar, both of you are good, sensible and know poetry well, but aap loog Eid ka chaand ho :p

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thanx for ur replies folks!

Amal: it is members like u who make the poetry forum worthwhile visiting :slight_smile: new suggestions are always welcome to make the poetry forum better, and we definitly look into them :slight_smile: so plz do continue to provide feedback to make improvements to the forum…

the suggestions u made here, about bait baizi on certain topics is a great idea! and i think we’ve even had a few threads here n there (not explicitly titled “bait baazi on a certain topic” etc) like that…the other suggestion was to invite ashaar from the members on a certain picture…again, a great idea…by all means, plz go ahead and feel free to start any threads of such sort which will get the members creative juices flowing…

as for getting mod participation up, both sehar and i try and do whatever we can…we read pretty much all of the threads that are around…it feel childish, to say the least, to expect a “pat on the back” for every single thread…the ones that stand out, we do tend to reply :slight_smile:

Eatern Thoughts: the decision to make mods for forums resides with admin…neither sehar, nor i can change that…the gupshup mod and admin team has had suggestions in the past about polling members to determine who a popular person is for a certain forum, but being popular is by no means the only criteria based on which admin will appoint a mod…a lot of other factors are involved as well…if u’d like to c that changed, u can contact admin, or even start a thread in feedback…its upto the admin then, as to what they’ll do about it :slight_smile:

re: being eid ka chaand :stuck_out_tongue: as i said above, both of us do read all the threads here…it doesn’t mean that we should be replyin to every single one repeating “nice work :k:” etc, and we do reply in threads which stand out or do invoke some feelings that are really strong :slight_smile: i hope that answers ur questions as well…

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Perhaps you do not want to comment on my observation that Poetry section doesn’t need 24-hour patrolling. Poetry is neither a problematic forum like Politics nor it is sensitive like Religion. It will continue to perform without any problem at all even if you do not visit Gupshup for a whole year. Now the question is, what are mods for? If extensive patrolling takes toll on your energy and keeps you on your toes and that’s why you don’t feel like appearing in all the threads, I would say it’s difficult for me to stomach.

As I said earlier, this is no politics. A thread in Politics forum may have an article containing 3000 words which means that the mod there has to go through every single line to scan for anything unwanted. How many words a thread in Poetry section may carry? Hardly 70-80 words. How much time did you spend scanning that thread? Hardly 1 minute. It means if Poetry has 60 new posts everyday (with a huge exaggeration). Now divide it between you and your co-mod and you end up with half-n-hour each. And I still insist Poetry section doesn’t record 60 new threads everyday!

As far as expecting “a pat on the back for every single thread” is concerned, I believe a pat doesn’t cost any penny! A pat, my dear friend, is an instrument of encouragement and absence of encouragement amounts to discouragement. Make sure you are not ‘discouraging’ your members unknowingly. Amjad has the same feeling and trying to make the same point which is not felt by you.

About your theory to appear only in “outstanding“ posts, I guess both the mods featured hardly in 6 threads in last 3 months which means we had only 6 true classical postings and whatever was posted apart from that was as good as rubbish. Thanx for telling all the members of the Poetry section how bad taste we have got!

I believe even if we are that bad, being the mods, you have got a moral responsibility to give us a ‘pat‘. Again, it won’t cost you anything at all!

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:D

Amal ..... same feelings here, and for these Mods, sort of things said before by him..... he is forgetting that we spend our time visiting this website and you see people post beautiful poetry with immages etc , i mean , our time is also precious , isnt it Mod ???
and as much that pat is concerned, it really hurts, we all are same, and sorry to say but DeSiMuNdA , i felt as you saying that " being Mods , hum tum loogoon pur ahsaan kurtay hain " , by the way i myself dont care, neither i m very regular here, just sometimes i come here, but i would like to see a " Sensible, and Regular visitor " as Mod. who can appreciate good poetry "in time" not enough saying after 2 months, " what a nice poem and let it be poem of month " NO.
and may be i will write to Admins as well that we need a Mod from us, OR both of Mods here should give us feeling as they are around..... and if no one accepted, still i have my own choices to do what ever i want... :)

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Amal: *
Perhaps you do not want to comment on my observation that Poetry section doesn’t need 24-hour patrolling. Poetry is neither a problematic forum like Politics nor it is sensitive like Religion. It will continue to perform without any problem at all even if you do not visit Gupshup for a whole year. Now the question is, what are mods for? If extensive patrolling takes toll on your energy and keeps you on your toes and that’s why you don’t feel like appearing in all the threads, I would say it’s difficult for me to stomach.

As I said earlier, this is no politics. A thread in Politics forum may have an article containing 3000 words which means that the mod there has to go through every single line to scan for anything unwanted. How many words a thread in Poetry section may carry? Hardly 70-80 words. How much time did you spend scanning that thread? Hardly 1 minute. It means if Poetry has 60 new posts everyday (with a huge exaggeration). Now divide it between you and your co-mod and you end up with half-n-hour each. And I still insist Poetry section doesn’t record 60 new threads everyday!

As far as expecting “a pat on the back for every single thread” is concerned, I believe a pat doesn’t cost any penny! A pat, my dear friend, is an instrument of encouragement and absence of encouragement amounts to discouragement. Make sure you are not ‘discouraging’ your members unknowingly. Amjad has the same feeling and trying to make the same point which is not felt by you.

About your theory to appear only in “outstanding“ posts, I guess both the mods featured hardly in 6 threads in last 3 months which means we had only 6 true classical postings and whatever was posted apart from that was as good as rubbish. Thanx for telling all the members of the Poetry section how bad taste we have got!

I believe even if we are that bad, being the mods, you have got a moral responsibility to give us a ‘pat‘. Again, it won’t cost you anything at all!
[/QUOTE]

yes, poetry doesn't need 24 hr patrolling like other sections do...but just like other sections, everytime someone posts somethin in an older thread even, we have to go thru the thread newayz...so i beg to differ with ur calculation of 1 min per thread...it takes more time than that :)

as for ur idea of no encouragement = discouragement...and if the mods don't reply to a thread, it means its bad/rubbish...by no means is that true either...u said so urself, poetry is a forum of passionate ppl...there are so many shades of passion and feelings...if u read my above-mentioned post again, i said if somethin stands out from the rest, invokes strong feelings, thats what we end up replyin to...otherwise its a lot like baby-sitting the members, which is DEFINITLY not needed, by tellin them on every single post of theirs "good work" etc...most of the members who visit poetry are grown up enuf to realize that no encouragement is NOT equal to discouragement, and if a mod doesn't reply doesn't make their poetry rubbish :) there are so many shades of gray...not just black or white...and thats a fact :) so to expect a "pat on the back" for every thread is just not reasonable...its like working at a call centre, and ur manager after every call comes and tells u "good call!"...doesn't work that way...

6 posts in the past three months...i think we've replied more...and even if it is 6 posts in the last three months, we've been tryin to get these forums split up for sometime now...and that required time and a fair amount of work on the mods part, as well as admins part...not everything is a done deal right away...thats what mods do at the back end, which members don't c...doesn't mean we aren't doing any work...we are, just that u don't c it...and that takes time 2, just like everything else...

i do easily spend a couple of hrs every week just on the poetry section, either goin thru the threads, or doin some other stuff that has to be done related to the poetry forum which members can't c :)

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Eastern Thoughts: *
:D

Amal ..... same feelings here, and for these Mods, sort of things said before by him..... he is forgetting that we spend our time visiting this website and you see people post beautiful poetry with immages etc , i mean , our time is also precious , isnt it Mod ???
and as much that pat is concerned, it really hurts, we all are same, and sorry to say but DeSiMuNdA , i felt as you saying that " being Mods , hum tum loogoon pur ahsaan kurtay hain " , by the way i myself dont care, neither i m very regular here, just sometimes i come here, but i would like to see a " Sensible, and Regular visitor " as Mod. who can appreciate good poetry "in time" not enough saying after 2 months, " what a nice poem and let it be poem of month " NO.
and may be i will write to Admins as well that we need a Mod from us, OR both of Mods here should give us feeling as they are around..... and if no one accepted, still i have my own choices to do what ever i want... :)
[/QUOTE]

ET: by no means is it an "ahsaan" on u ppl that we are mods..by the same token, it can be taken the other way around...that u r doing an "ahsaan" by posting here when u don't have to and expect a reward for that :) i was just answering amal's concerns about the time that mods spend on the poetry forums...

yes, at the end of the day, it is ur choice what u do...and yes, there's admin above mods, so if u r not have any concerns regarding us and feel we are not answering ur concerns properly, by all means, do contact the admin :) like i said b4, it takes more time than what members think is needed ot keep things going...

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:yawn:

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The only reason behind this conversation was to impress upon you the necessicity of your regular appearance in our threads and, in a sense, we have already succeeded in activating you as you have been visiting this thread regularly :D By the way, this is precisely what were advocating for and you were arguing against. All I and Amjad seek is that we do not want you to just sit judge on us, sit with us as other members.

But if you want to carry on with the argument, could you explain why Nam/Ghazal of the Month was stopped? Since you claim that you go through almost every thread, than what propelled you to discontinue this competition as you already see everything and it only requires an announcment from you?

About your claim that “it takes more time than what members think is needed to keep things going,” I know very well that mods are never responsible for taking care of technical aspect of a board. It’s always Admin. As far as I know, Gupshup is being run on a PHP application of InfoPoP and it never takes more than 10 clicks and ten minutes to split a forum as the Poetry section has been done into. You had been making it a point for the last couple of months that both the mods were working on something new for us which actually we know is hardly an exercise of half-n-hour! Moving things around may take some time, but not the splitting.

For the sake of record, could you tell me when last time ~Sehar~ or you posted a ghazal/nazm? In fact if my memory is not playing me foul, you start Bait Bazi and do not bother to even start it with a sher from you. Instead, you just quote the last one from the last Bait Bazi.

DeSiMuNdA bhai if poetry is not your field than what are you doing here? And if you do have a sense and taste of poetry, than why you don’t post anything from the ocean of poetry? I am sure Amjad Islam Amjad, Faiz Ahmed Faiz or Ahmad Faraz and likes of them may have written one or two pieces in their entire lives which may “invoke strong feelings” and “stand out.”

I again repeat my question,** when last time ~Sehar~ or you posted a ghazal/nazm?**

Thanx indeed :~)

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Amal: *
The only reason behind this conversation was to impress upon you the necessicity of your regular appearance in our threads and, in a sense, we have already succeeded in activating you as you have been visiting this thread regularly :D By the way, this is precisely what were advocating for and you were arguing against. All I and **Amjad* seek is that we do not want you to just sit judge on us, sit with us as other members.

But if you want to carry on with the argument, could you explain why Nam/Ghazal of the Month was stopped? Since you claim that you go through almost every thread, than what propelled you to discontinue this competition as you already see everything and it only requires an announcment from you?

About your claim that “it takes more time than what members think is needed to keep things going,” I know very well that mods are never responsible for taking care of technical aspect of a board. It’s always Admin. As far as I know, Gupshup is being run on a PHP application of InfoPoP and it never takes more than 10 clicks and ten minutes to split a forum as the Poetry section has been done into. You had been making it a point for the last couple of months that both the mods were working on something new for us which actually we know is hardly an exercise of half-n-hour! Moving things around may take some time, but not the splitting.

For the sake of record, could you tell me when last time ~Sehar~ or you posted a ghazal/nazm? In fact if my memory is not playing me foul, you start Bait Bazi and do not bother to even start it with a sher from you. Instead, you just quote the last one from the last Bait Bazi.

DeSiMuNdA bhai if poetry is not your field than what are you doing here? And if you do have a sense and taste of poetry, than why you don’t post anything from the ocean of poetry? I am sure Amjad Islam Amjad, Faiz Ahmed Faiz or Ahmad Faraz and likes of them may have written one or two pieces in their entire lives which may “invoke strong feelings” and “stand out.”

I again repeat my question,** when last time ~Sehar~ or you posted a ghazal/nazm?**

Thanx indeed :~)
[/QUOTE]

ok amal, u want to talk logistics, so here is the breakdown...

all that i'm saying is that its not a simple click operation as u make it to be...coming up with how to split the forums (there were serveral ideas), decidin on what was best suitable, deciding on the name, comin up with the forum descriptions, gettin them approved from admin, takes a LOT more than 30 mins :) like i said, u don't c all that work...u just c the tiem taken to split the forums once all of that is done...same with ghazal and nazm of the month...u don't see the time it takes to sift through the threads first (since we didn't have a separate forum for personal poetry), then filter them for the good ones, filter the good ones again and then mutually decide which is ghazal/nazm of the month...that takes a lot more time than u think...that was one of the main reasons why we split the forums this way, one for personal poetry and one for contemporary poetry...so it helps us and keeps things organized...there were other proposed models...this was the best one that fit the boards needs, and this one was implemented...

yes, u r right, technical aspect is handled by the admin...thats what makes the process even longer :) cuz they have to approve of it as well...not everyone is available 24/7, it takes time to get somethin done...

so now u know why ghazal/nazm of the month was not continued in the last few months...repeating myself again, we were doing a lot of other stuff that u don't know about...logistics don't always give u the right answers...

gettin me to actively particpate, i also said i reply where its needed :) u have some concerns, so i'm addressin them ehre...same if someone PMs me with some concerns...i usually do reply to them promptly...

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PS all i want u members to do is also just not sit there and judge on us mods, if u don't know what goes on at the back :)

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back biting is kullun haraam :nono4:

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shukran ya sheikh…jazakAllah :stuck_out_tongue:

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My very dear friend, believe me it never takes more than what I told you - less than ten clicks and as many minutes :slight_smile: It’s a different story though how much time Admin takes to listen to you.

No I still don’t know why Ghazal/Nazm of the Month was stopped DeSiMuNdA bhai. You are continously contradicting yourself. When so many times you have to go through threads and than replies that ential and than a full process of filtering, why you can’t just announce which thread has got a class? A thorough scanning as you claim to be doing, is more than enough to give you a perfect idea about all the stuff posted. And even if we take your point as a valid one, you may not deny that Poetry section has got two mods. Can’t it be possible that one of you engage the admin on technical issues while the other one manages the internal affairs of Poetry section? Why you both have to be occupied for such a lenghty, as you put it, exercise?

Repetition! We do not see even you. Baba you have already claimed that you go through ALL the threads. So how come you have to comb through the posts again and again? :eek: If both of you have got a bad memory, make a note of everything which “invoke strong feelings” and “stand out.” sab kuch bataana parrta hey :smack: Anyway, if you are ready to listen to me, just as you have splitted the forum, split your responsibilites as well (with ~Sehar~).

Who can force you to reply even here as you happen to be the boss here! How come you and ~Sehar~ think on a same line that both of you will “reply where its needed” and incidently both of you feel this need hardly twice in a month?

And what “concerns” of mine you are addressing by the way? You still did not answer my question as to when last time ~Sehar~ and you posted a nazm or ghazal? Will you reply it here or I will have to send you a PM as you appear to be dealing with PMs more conveniently :slight_smile:

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*DeSiMuNdA * bhai, one thing really i am FAILED to understand that what thing making you people think as you people are Mods so you can deal the things as you want, and as u said " i reply where its needed ".... mayray bahi, if you are Mod, at the same time sensible, then you have to take care of few things where you are not directly addressed, i am NOT saying that if i am Mod here, i can perform better than you, but i am just trying to realize you that please get the point what *Amal * is trying to make clear for you, Do you know how much this guy is appreciated here on this poetry section??? you dont have idea sir ji :) believe me, if i was at your place and i may have not argue with *Amal * bulkay i may have given 'value' to his sayings and think positively about it, but aap nay tu ulta hi kur deya..... see he even told you number of clicks you need to seprate form :D
you can see my number of posts, just 500, so i dont think so if i am saying something it can be of that much value, but one thing is for sure that all guppies here think what i am saying :p , i dont know why they not able to say that, ok i am doing it on their behalf ;) , ok for me it is also accepted as *Amal * suggested 'split your responsibilites with *Sehar *'.
and we should know that WHO IS DOING WHAT, so that we can save our time and can blame only that person in future :-)

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amal, again u r only lookin at the time it takes to split the forum physically…why did u ignore the rest of what i said that goes into decidin how to split the forum etc…that takes time 2…can’t do stuff on a whim, that ok, members want this done, here it is…theres a process for everythin…if u read my last post, i told u the whole process that we went through to split the forums in 2…so by no means is the 30 min deal accurate as thats only the implementation time…and if u wanna talk in terms of technology (since u mentioned php, i’m assumin u r technically inclined), where does the most time take when developing anything…the analysis and design phase :slight_smile: the implementation is the ez part…so thats what u r choosing to ignore so far, only looking at the implementation and not the analysis and design…

how is that a contradiction? u mean to say ppl don’t reply when someone posts a nazm or ghazal? and if they do, then we should leave it unchecked? thats not how it is…so yes, we DO go through a thread several times…and yes, we DO have to go through the threads numerous times (in technical terms, iteration) to determine whats the best ghazal and nazm…the results are more accurate that way…so it IS a lengthy process…

i end up repeating myself cuz u r not getting the basic point across, which is that theres a LOT more involved than what u c as the face value here (there u go, i repeated myself once more)…refer to what i said above and u’ll get ur answer…and ~Sehar~ does equal work, if not more than i do…

haha…if these aren’t ur concerns, then why am i even replyin here…did u not bring up the issue of mods not spending enuf time according to YOUR standards? that is a concern to me…thats why i’m replying…

and u r forcing me to repeat myself here AGAIN…look at my last post and u’ll get ur answer about when was the last time sehar and i posted a nazm or ghazal of the month…

P.S. this is going nowhere as u fail to understand how things work…2 bad they don’t work the way u’d want them to, but thats how life is…not everythin works exactly how someone else wants…if u have more constructive opinions on how to improve poetry by starting certain sorts of threads like u mentioned bait baizi on certain topics and inviting ashar from members, plz share that with us…i think i’ve said all that i have to say on the rest of the issues…

enjoy using both the forums now :slight_smile:

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Eastern Thoughts: *
**DeSiMuNdA * bhai, one thing really i am FAILED to understand that what thing making you people think as you people are Mods so you can deal the things as you want, and as u said " i reply where its needed ".... mayray bahi, if you are Mod, at the same time sensible, then you have to take care of few things where you are not directly addressed, i am NOT saying that if i am Mod here, i can perform better than you, but i am just trying to realize you that please get the point what *Amal * is trying to make clear for you, Do you know how much this guy is appreciated here on this poetry section??? you dont have idea sir ji :) believe me, if i was at your place and i may have not argue with *Amal * bulkay i may have given 'value' to his sayings and think positively about it, but aap nay tu ulta hi kur deya..... see he even told you number of clicks you need to seprate form :D
you can see my number of posts, just 500, so i dont think so if i am saying something it can be of that much value, but one thing is for sure that all guppies here think what i am saying :p , i dont know why they not able to say that, ok i am doing it on their behalf ;) , ok for me it is also accepted as *Amal * suggested 'split your responsibilites with *Sehar *'.
and we should know that WHO IS DOING WHAT, so that we can save our time and can blame only that person in future :-)

[/QUOTE]

ET: if someone is appricated, doesn't mean what they say can't be wrong :) i disagree with what he has to say, so i'll argue my points...thats all there is to it...and i've replied to whatever he said...

the responsibilities are equally shared b/w sehar and i...we don't need to announce to everyone that this is what we are doing...i gave an example b4 about the manager of a call centre tellin someone everytime after every call "good call!", doesn't work that way...same thing here...they seldom tell others what tasks they have to perform routinely to keep things going, and with whom are they sharing this repsonsibility, who's doing what...theres no need for that...

so ET, if u have any more constructive thoughts on how to improve the forums, plz let us know...

i'll end up repeatin myself over and over again, so i'll stop replyin to the concerns that've already been addressed...and if u or amal feel that i haven't appropriately addressed ur concerns, plz contact admin for that...

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hmmmm, Well Man,we are not like 'typical pakistani nation' hain jin say hamaray 'leaders' her baat munva laytay hain.....
ok you dont answer anymore here but as before i said , from each n every words of urs you have written above, you giving us a feeling kay 'ho ga wo hi jo hum chahtay hain' , well for me, i dont care.... i will keep saying what i want.... aur aysa koi khass musla nahi hay Mr. , Admins ko bhi i will write...., and make it clear in your mind that Admins may feel even 'Amal' as a better Mod than both of you and intresting thing is that Amal will not like to be a Mod. he is too nice for it.....
and whats wrong in this if you have your one introduction as a Mod and you tell us what things you have been performing to make this Poetry section running ???.... and i cant see any reason to hide it...., and you giving me example of Manage of a Call center ???? MAN..... he does those things caz he is afraid of losing his customers, and e will get less profit.... , SO.... IT MEANS.... WE DONT KNOW and YOU PEOPLE ARE GETTING PROFIT, so you want to hide few things so that you dont lose your profit...... hmmmm ..... tu bahi pahlay hi kah dayna tha seedha seedha.... hum aap kay profit main kumi ka na soochtay....
OK this is the lasttime i am particepating in some thing to make this website bit better.... i never knew this before that somehow WE ARE USED..... for myself, i dont like it and will NOT allow anyone to get advantage of me........ soon you will see less acceesses from my PC, for your help, you can see it in website logs that who and from where website is accessed.....
Amal, from me, thats END..... if you still think to say something regarding making this poetry section better, you can do but i am leaving this discussion now.....
i will do little research and if really it is proved that 'I WAS USED' u will not see me on pak.org anymore.....

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:confused: i didn’t follow the profit bit…can u rephrase that?

the rest is of course ur choice…how much u participate, we can’t control…happy surfing :slight_smile:

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ET: ap kis ko samja rahay hum ne ap ki sari conversation parhi hia yuun lagta hai bhanse k agay been bajanay wali baat ho gaye yahan tu( sorry mods no hard feelings it’s just a aik exaple dya hai) jab k desi bahi khud se kah chukay k ye un ka feild nahi ab kisamt ne unhin bana dala hia mod tu …:wink:

PS: wesay Amal aur ap ne :k: