Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

What is really absurd and illogical is that the same people who call eid Milad un nabi bidat because they cannot find yearly celebrations in islamic history, are the same people who rejoice on the day of imam hussain's death yearly because Jews used to celebrate that day.

What is more important for Muslims? A Jewish celebration or killing of our beloved prophet's ahlebait?
What was God thinking when he first eulogized ahlebait in Quran and then allowed prophet to order Muslims to rejoice on the day a member of the same ahlebait was to be killed?


i am simply baffled and saddened by looking at what kind of people Islam has produced. They have drowned the religion and their fate by giving up on reason and closing their minds.

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

Khoji, those people believe in Prophet SAW, and since they know this hadith, therefore it is mandatory for them to believe in it. Why you think they do fast because of Jewish tradition and not because of following of Prophet SAW? Only Allah knows the intentions, so you can't say they do it because of haterd of Hz Hussain R.A (which no Muslim can harbour in his heart and yet claim the love of Prophet SAW due to his relationship, but also due to famous hadeeth in which Prophet SAW said Hussain is from me......).

I think its just a misunderstanding between the two sects. Majority of the Sunni's take Muhharam as a sacred month since Prophet prescribed to fast in this month (other than Ramadhan). If Hz Hussain R.A were to be shaheed in Ramadhan, would that have changed the status of Ramdhan for the Ummah? No. Because Battle of Badr happened in Ramadhan and it didn't change anything in the Rmadhan routines in the years after that battle. Instead Allah SWT has told us the significance of it because of the nuzool-e-Quran in that month. Similarly, Muharram was sacred during Prophet SAW time, and it remained the same years after.

As far as remembering the sacrifices of Prophet's ahle-bait in Karbala is concerned, this is a 365 days event for every Muslim. When we make dua after Salaat or after we finish Quran, we have been told to first recite Darood (which includes sending salawat to Prophet and His family) and all the Prophets, Siddiqeen, Shuhada, Saleheen and kul momineen wa mominaat and kul muslimeen wa muslimaat. I don't see a point of doing annual commemoration on exactly that day, celebrating shaam-e-gharibaa as if its any sawaab to cry like women and beat ourselves. There has been many events from Prophet's life alone that brings tears to our eyes and shahadat-e-Hussain R.A is also a similar one. The message of Imam can be revised and refreshed on a constant basis throughout the year in a much more decent way than what happens on the streets every year that reminds us of era of Jahiliyaah.

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

:salam:

Ok … I have done some working out and then quickly realised that I was going down the wrong route … But I found some interesting things out … First of all … Muharram will traverse the seasons … but the Jewish months Nisan in this case will jump back every 3 or 2 years … to align with the solar calendar. When mapping against Islamic months we see that Muharram will coincide with a different Jewish month every 2 or 3 years going backwards in the Jewish calendar … But all of this was the wrong approach because since the months jump by whole lunar cycles the point being made that 10th of Muharram could never be equal to 15th of Nisan is valid and correct …

So I looked again at the traditions and celebrations of the Jewish people and found some interesting things …

There are some notable events …
4 days or so before the passover on the 15th is the Sabbath HaGadol …
Shabbat HaGadol - The Sabbath before Passover

As impressive is this:

10th of Nisan - is the date when the Israelites crossed the River Jordan and here is the link:
Nisan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, in the Bible - Jesus (AS) comes to Bethany …

Six days before ****the Passover, ****Jesus therefore came to Bethany, ****where Lazarus was, whom Jesus had raised from the dead. **2 **So they gave a dinner for him there.

John 12:1-33 ESV - Mary Anoints Jesus at Bethany - Six - Bible Gateway

It appears the fast of Ashura is not directly linked to the Passover, but to the whole period plus and minus a week either side of the 15th of Nisan …

Then I came across this …
Why We Celebrate Shabbat Hagadol instead of the 10th of Nissan - Passover

According to this the 10th is mentioned in scripture and not the Saturday … so at some point in time the Jews have altered this celebration from the 10th to doing it on the Sabbath. Possibly so they don’t have to fast … because fasting on Sabbath is forbidden. Although they also say that since Miriam (sister of Moses (AS)) died on the 10th Nisan they do not make it specifically on the 10th …

There is enough evidence here to say that the whole argument about the misalignment is a non-issue …

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

The last para of your post was merely opinion. Talking about it is unnecessary and a waste of time.
regarding above points:
- they do it because of a tradition which is attributed to the prophet. That tradition says that prophet ordered this celebration because Jews used do it.
This is why I asked the questions above. That tradition is flawed. Because it is illogical and inconceivable to say that prophet would order to rejoice on the very day hussain would be killed along with his family.
- I did not say that people do it due to hatred of imam hussain. Rather I think people who made up this tradition did it due to hatred of Shias. They did not care that doing so will effect the very Omniscience of God.
- Muharram was sacred EVEN BEFORE Islam. It was not just during the time of prophet. But it means nothing. Because there were three more months which were sacred.

now please see my above questions again and see if they make sense. I really don't want to spend time on fringe arguments.

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

Khoji, you can call it personal opinion. But leaving all sort of examples related to all aspects of life, how could possibly Prophet SAW leave the importance of mourning on the day of Shahadat of his beloved Uncle Amir Hamza R.A? If it is as important as Shia think it is (annual mourning), the best example driven from Sunnah would have been of Hamza R.A's shahadat. Instead we don't see any reference to 17 of Ramadhan commemoration despite of its being in 2 A.H. with 8 more years before Prophet SAW passed away. We all know what that Shahadat meant for Prophet SAW, it would have been the best event to teach annual remembrance of day of grievance.

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

**12 **The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, **2 **“This month shall be for you the beginning of months. It shall be the first month of the year for you. **3 **Tell all the congregation of Israel that on the tenth day of this month every man shall take a lamb according to their fathers’ houses, a lamb for a household. **4 **And if the household is too small for a lamb, then he and his nearest neighbor shall take according to the number of persons; according to what each can eat you shall make your count for the lamb. **5 **Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male a year old. You may take it from the sheep or from the goats, 6 and you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month, when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill their lambs at twilight.a]
**7 **“Then they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and the lintel of the houses in which they eat it. **8 **They shall eat the flesh that night, roasted on the fire; with unleavened bread and bitter herbs they shall eat it. **9 **Do not eat any of it raw or boiled in water, but roasted, its head with its legs and its inner parts. **10 **And you shall let none of it remain until the morning; anything that remains until the morning you shall burn. **11 **In this manner you shall eat it: with your belt fastened, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand. And you shall eat it in haste. It is the Lord’s Passover.**12 **For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the Lord. **13 **The blood shall be a sign for you, on the houses where you are. And when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and no plague will befall you to destroy you, when I strike the land of Egypt.
**14 “This day shall be for you a memorial day, and you shall keep it as a feast to the Lord; throughout your generations, as a statute forever, you shall keep it as a feast. 15 Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall remove leaven out of your houses, for if anyone eats what is leavened, from the first day until the seventh day, that person shall be cut off from Israel. **16 **On the first day you shall hold a holy assembly, and on the seventh day a holy assembly. No work shall be done on those days. But what everyone needs to eat, that alone may be prepared by you. ******17 And you shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this very day I brought your hosts out of the land of Egypt. Therefore you shall observe this day, throughout your generations, as a statute forever. 18 In the first month, from the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread until the twenty-first day of the month at evening. **19 **For seven days no leaven is to be found in your houses. If anyone eats what is leavened, that person will be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he is a sojourner or a native of the land. **20 **You shall eat nothing leavened; in all your dwelling places you shall eat unleavened bread.”

As can be seen from the passage in Exodus 12 the section in green refers to the Passover a feast lasting 7 days (without eating leavened bread) … but the section in red has significance it is the start of the miracle … and it may be that Jews kept a single day fast on this date. I need to find non-Islamic evidence for that …

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

And here is the evidence of that too …

Fast Days of the Jewish Year

The fast of Miriam …

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

Regarding the insinuation that the observation of the fast of Ashura is replacing the mourning of prophet Muhammad (SAW)'s grandson is also a poor argument.

Rather it can be seen as a prophecy ... It is a better way to remember the martyrdom of Sayyiduna Hussain (RA) by fasting than it is to spill blood and inflict harm on ourselves. If the Holy Prophet (SAW) didn't mention it - it was due to his (SAW) adab of future events ... why is it strange to remember a past event to a nation who earned the favour of Allah (SWT)? There is nothing strange in it - rather it would be strange for RasoolAllah (SAW) to call for mourning for a future event ... Fasting is NOT a celebration as such it is an observation ... to do so on the anniversary of the martyrdom of Sayyiduna Hussain (RA) is not bad adab ... it is the best adab ... it is far better than losing our senses and harming our bodies. Ashrua - is an important day for many reasons, many things happened on this day ... and perhaps more things are yet to happen on this day ... the perfect way to remember this day is by fasting ... at the time of the narration the event of the martyrdom had not yet happened ... but after the martyrdom there are multiple reasons for this observation ...

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

Peace khoji

You see the Sunnis (as I am one) are people of tradition and then we use wisdom to bridge any gaps ... We don't just use our intellect without first resorting to our traditions.

Traditions have to be rooted in evidence ...

Now the continuation of a Jewish custom means that we recognise the authenticity of that custom to have come from Allah (SWT) - and we observe it by slightly differing in their practice. Conversely if there is no tradition for celebrating the birth day of RasoolAllah (SAW) then that too drives how we observe it ... I am personally of the opinion that to celebrate it is "allowed" - but I also assert that to do so in certain ways is not allowed. However, I do not say that it is Sunnah or Fard or carries x, y z hasanat, because that would be biddat to claim that.

Now it may betray your intellect to see that the celebration of Mawlid is not observed yet the fast of Ashura is observed, but that is because you do not recognise our approach - Our approach is primarily tradition ... If it is documented we do it - if not we do not and if there is some allowance for it - then we can differ in opinion and observe it as a neutral act with secondary benefits.

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

This has not to do with being sunni or shia. It has to do with common sense. This was not the way of sunnis earlier.

Not using intellect is what sends the religion down the abyss. The extremism which has engulfed Islamic world today has the roots in not using common sense.


Remember that SSP/LJ are not newly created entities. Such people have been present throughout the history. Such people fabricated traditions for various reasons, one of them being extreme hatred of shias and ahlebait. This is why almost everything that shia do has some sort of objection is some tradition in some book.
One of them is call for rejoicing on the day Imam Hussain and family were slaughtered by Yazid.


[quote]
Now it may betray your intellect to see that the celebration of Mawlid is not observed yet the fast of Ashura is observed...
[/quote]

Let me continue your sentence:
Now it may betray your intellect to see that the celebration of Mawlid is not observed yet the (*Jewish) *fast of Ashura is observed ... *on the same day Yazid killed Prophet's grandson!*

It is amazing how people could be satisfied with such contradictions in the approach. Yes, it does betray intellect. Not just MY intellect but anyone's intellect. The reason it betrays intellect is that this approach is illogical and unreasonable. As I said above, we know how many thousands of traditions have been concocted by people throughout the history. If we start accepting illogical and unreasonable traditions then the religion will go down the drain of extremism and blind following. Aren't we witnessing it today?

And it has nothing to do with being shia or sunni. There are sunnis who do not follow this blind approach and reamain sunnis.

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

That is my point ... You claim to be using "intellect" but you are using pure and erroneously placed "emotion" ... If you were using intellect you would quickly realise that "fasting" is not celebrating a festivity ...

Eid is our festivals and on Eid we DO NOT fast ... the Jews celebrate their 15th Nisan as a festival, but before this festival is a period of extreme prayer waiting before the azaab of Allah (SWT) struck the Egyptians ... the 10th Nisan corresponds to that ... and it also corresponds to the death of Miriam - which if you see the Jews fast on that date ... they do not celebrate her death ... they remember her as with the crossing of the Jordan River ... these are markers in time - given holy status as a time to gain reward - fasting is not celebrating neither in Islam nor in Judaism.

The best way to remember the shahdat of Imam Hussain (RA) is to fast - not to hurt yourself ... so if you want to remember Imam Hussain (RA) do so by fasting ...

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

Your line of argumentation reminds me of the line taken by Iblis ... He did not want to prostrate to the Adamic form - feeling he is greater and should only prostrate to Allah (SWT) ... He used his intellect over his direct instruction ... For us the authentic words of RasoolAllah (SAW) are instruction and we do not attempt to rationalise them ... although we can if we need to ...

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

The matter is very different in the two cases. It is not that we should give up all Quran and traditions, and only follow common sense. Rather it is that use common sense, besides accepting various other means, to accept whether that tradition is true or false.
There is no "direct instruction" in this case, rather what is being argued is that **IF **there is a direct instruction.

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

Ok. This is different. (And I can see that by my intellect ;) )
So does it mean that you do not accept the traditions that Prophet asked for fasting based on Jewish celebrations? If yes then that would be great. And there would be nothing to argue.

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

:ast: come on people. Allow people if they want to follow this practice of fasting based on some traditions. At the end its just nawafili roza, which can be be practiced on any day (except certain days). Why so fuss about it.

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

I believe that in order to show something to be wrong in hadith you have to demonstrate the chain to be with untrustworthy narrators and for it to be less than muttawatir otherwise there is a tendency to stretch it towards a biased position purely because it seems to conflict with our intellect.

Imam Abu Hanifa (RA) did not deem the fast to be more important than the prayer, despite the prayer not having qadza for a woman in menstruation yet the fast does have qadza for a woman in menstruation.

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

Some people do fast on 9th and 10th Muharram but I dont think they do it to celebrate something.

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

Brother Wa’alaikum Assalaam.
I think you are jumping from one event to another, trying to justify what is unjustifiable. :slight_smile:

You should remember that we are discussing fasting on 10[SUP]th[/SUP] Muharram due to hadith that Jews got liberated on 10[SUP]th[/SUP] of Muharram under the leadership of Musa (AS), and not anything else. Now coming to your post.

Above event is about Israelites crossing river Jordan under the leadership of Joshua. This crossing happened 40 years after Jews got freedom from Pharaoh under the leadership of Musa (AS). Joshua succeeded Musa (AS) as head of Israelite after the death of Musa (AS).

Jews getting liberated from Pharaoh (15[SUP]th[/SUP] Nisan) when they crossed into Sinai under the leadership of Musa (AS) is completely different than Jews crossing river Jordan under the guidance of Joshua, 40 years later, after their liberation from Pharaoh.

Jews crossed river Jordan under the leadership of Joshua to attack and capture Jericho. Joshua is remembered as one who won Jericho for Jews, and that happened after he crossed with Jews to capture Jericho across Jordan River.

So, even purposes of crossings are different. Crossing of Jews into Sinai from Egypt under the leadership of Musa (AS) was for liberation from slavery of Pharaoh. While Crossing of River Jordan by Jews under leadership of Joshua, 40 years later, was to conquer and expanding the kingdom of Jews.

Hadith do not talk about crossing of Jews under leadership of Joshua to destroy and capture Jericho … it talks about Jews getting freedom, liberation, from Pharaoh under the leadership of Musa (AS).

Now coming to your other reference:

I think if you had read what you posted and understood what is said, than you would have been clear and would not have got confused.

I would have given many references, but your quoting Bible (Exodus) is itself good and most reliable reference (as it is not just reference, but quote from source itself) … so I would discuss this event once going through your Bible quote … so here, I am giving brief explanation:

Jews got liberated on 15 Nisan … but while in Egypt, some Jews even started worshipping or revering lambs (that happened as they got influenced by Egyptian worship of lamb).

So, to get rid of that influence, God told Jews that to obtain lamb for sacrifice and bring that lamb home, on 10 Nisan … and keep that lamb at home so that it can be sacrificed on 14 Nisan (a day before Passover). This keeping of lamb for 4 days is to make Jews emotionally close to the sacrificial lamb, before sacrificing that lamb for God.

This sacrifice is called Shabbat HaGodal that happens a day before 15 Nisan (Passover day) … and the name is giving because sacrificing lamb is considered as great sacrifice.

[Recommendation of keeping sacrificial animal few days before sacrifice is same in Islam. That is to buy sacrificial animal 3 to 4 days before Qurabani and keep it at home (longer the better), so that one gets close to the sacrificial animal emotionally before Qurbani … else Qurbani (sacrifice) would not be of live animal a person is emotionally attached, but sacrifice is of only money that bought the animal … though there is no clear order of Allah about it, thus most people do not do that … and that is same with Jews, that they consider buying lamb 4 days before sacrifice is not clear order of God for later generations, hence they do not do that considering that buying sacrificial animal 4 days earlier was only for first sacrifice before first ‘Passover’ event… though some Jews do follow that … as some Muslims do, buy their sacrificial animal few days before sacrifice].

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

Psyah: Brother, now coming to passages you posted from Bible (book: Exodus) … that I think you did not read yourself carefully, so please read the passage you posted carefully, and you would find same what I wrote earlier and I am writing throughout.

You posted:

I am breaking down the passages of Bible (Exodus) you posted, so that it would be easy for all to understand:

So, you take/buy a lamb on 10[SUP]th[/SUP] day of Nisan … for what?
… lets go to next passages …

So, you keep that lamb until 14[SUP]th[/SUP] day and then sacrifice the lamb at twilight … not on 10[SUP]th[/SUP] Nisan but on 14[SUP]th [/SUP]Nisan, a day before Passover.

Now, is that twilight of fajr time on 14[SUP]th[/SUP] or after sunset on 14[SUP]th[/SUP]?

Shows that it must be after sunset on 14[SUP]th [/SUP]Nisan … but that does not matter, as it is mentioned that Jews should eat the flesh that night … so even if twilight was fajr time of 14[SUP]th [/SUP] Nisan, only night is of the day before 15th Nisan … that means … lamb can be consumed until morning of 15[SUP]th[/SUP] Nisan.

So, how and why lamb should be consumed before Passover (15th Nisan)?
lets go forward:

So what to do with the sacrificed lamb? … Eat the lamb in haste, so that none is left by morning of 15th Nisan … but if any of sacrificial lamb is left in the morning (of 15[SUP]th[/SUP] Nisan), do not eat but burn it …

Why?

Because that day (15[SUP]th[/SUP] Nisan) would be lord’s Passover. … and God do not want that on Passover, any of sacrificial lamb is left.

Here God is telling to Jews what he would do on 15th Nisan (that he would Passover them).

Now God is talking about Passover (15[SUP]th[/SUP] Nisan), not any day but Passover day and that is 15th Nisan (as can be seen from above passages), and telling Jews that this day (15th Nisan … or Passover day) should be Memorial Day for Jews forever, to be kept as feast day to the lord, throughout generations.

In above passages, God is telling Jews that they should celebrate Passover for 7 days … that means, from 15[SUP]th[/SUP] Nisan (from evening of the 14th Nisan) to 21[SUP]st[/SUP] Nisan (to sunset time of 21st Nisan)… where Nisan is first month, celebration starts from evening of 14th day of the month … and last until evening of 21st day of the month, when Jews are told not to eat ‘khameeri roti’ (leavened bread) as mentioned in above passages of ‘Exodus’… and that is what Jews are doing since then … they celebrate Passover for 7 days starting on 15[SUP]th[/SUP] Nisan … till 21st Nisan … and do not eat leavened bread.

[Note: Evening of 14th Nisan (after sunset) is actually start of 15th Nisan … and evening of 21st Nisan (at sunset) 21st Nisan ends … as those who follow lunar month, their day starts in the evening after sunset and ends at sunset … that is why moon is sighted after sunset not before sunset … and once moon is sighted after sunset, new lunar month starts]

Re: Fasting on the day of Aashoora (10th Muharram)

I am writing this because I feel some Muslims have plenty of misunderstanding and confusion regarding Islam that got created during earlier years of Islam and now engraved in Muslims’ mind. Actually, this misunderstanding and confusion is big tool of Shaitan to make people believe and practice without questioning, what is not from Allah but concocted absurdities and lies that got introduced into religion by Shaitan with the help of people in authority (religious or administrators). This is the way Shaitan has made Christians to believe that Isa (AS) was son of God, and Hindus to believe on numerous Gods.

Since hadith … fasting on 10[SUP]th[/SUP] Muharram … linking it to Jews liberation from Pharaoh under the leadership of Musa (AS) … and various other contradictory hadiths … is present in various books, and some people want to consider any hadith as true due to acceptable Isnad (chain of narrators) without going into content, they consider these hadith reliable, regardless of content of hadith is true or not. Thus, I would like to mention something that all Muslims should know, remember and understand (for their own good):

Quran is words of Allah because whatever is there in Quran is true, and there are no lies, contradictions, or absurdities in Quran. Quran also tells about things our soul (roh) inherently knows, understands, and hence accepts as true. If there were lies, contradictions, and absurdities in Quran then Quran would not have been words of Allah but concocted book. If our soul (Roh) did not knew, understood and recognised what is written in Quran, rather for our Roh, Quran would be saying things that are weird, mysterious, and unknown for our soul (Roh), something that our soul (roh) inherently did not knew, then also humans (Muslims) would not have accepted Quran as words of their creator.

Actually, if there were lies, contradictions, discrepancies, and absurdities in Quran, than believing that Quran is words of Allah would meant, believing that Allah lies, have contradictions in his words, and talk absurdities. That would have been big sin, rather kufr, and anyone with such believes deserve to abide in hell. See what Quran says about Quran being free from all flaws (contradictions, lies, irrationality, absurdities, discrepancies, etc) and also says that if here were flaws then Quran would not have been words of Allah (it would have been words of others). Shows that flaws in saying cannot be from Allah … or Prophets (AS).

*Yusuf Ali (Quran 4:82): ... *Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy (contradictions, irrationality, absurdities, lies, etc).

One should remember that ‘we accept Quran as book of Allah because it has no lies, no contradictions and no absurdities’, and ‘it is not’ that ‘we accept Quran as book of Allah in spite of lies, contradictions and absurdities’.

Same is true about hadith:

Hadith is true because Prophet (SAW) could not have said anything untrue, lie or absurd. Regardless of the Isnad (chains of narrators) and theirs’ acceptability, we cannot accept any hadith to be words of Prophet (SAW) if ‘Matan’ (contents) of that hadith is lie, illogical, irrational, contradictory, or absurdity.

If we would do that, accept hadith regardless of content having lies, contradictions, irrationality, or absurdities, on strength of Isnad (chain of narrator) then by dong that we would be accepting that Prophet (SAW) (nauzobillah) was saying lies, had contradictions in his sayings, was irrational, was illogical, and used to talk absurdities.

Thus, whenever we accept sayings as words of Prophet (SAW) that has flaws than that would be abusing Prophet (SAW) and his integrity, and that could lead us to hell … because Prophet (SAW) could not have said lies, could not have made contradictory statements, could not have said something irrational, could not have made illogical statements, and could not have said things absurd … so, it is our duty to reject what has flaws and only accept as hadith from Prophet (SAW) what is flawless, especially what is accordance with Quran (that itself is flawless).

It is same as anyone who you trusts tells you that your father said something that you know is lie or absurd, then if you have respect for your father and know that your father could not have said such lies and absurdities (he was not liar or idiot), than regardless of whoever is the narrator and however reliable you consider that narrator, you would reject what the narrator is saying about your father, rather you might even start abusing the narrator and may even stop respecting the narrator.

But then, how shameful it is that there are people who may reject lies and absurdities if it gets associated to their biological father, regardless of who tells them, but when it comes to Prophet (SAW), they are willing to accept lies and absurdities and would defend that, just because to them the narrators’ name associated with hadith are reliable, respectable and important. This belief and behaviour is clear disrespect and abuse of Prophet (SAW), and that could have big consequence for the person after death.

[Note: When one considers that a particular hadith is not from Prophet (SAW) but concocted, one is not necessarily demeaning the narrators, as it is also possible that some notorious person may have concocted the saying and used the name of people as narrators to make sure that people accept the concocted sayings.]