Re: Family Planning?
Quran tells us about youm al Alast ... Alastu' be rabbekum; qaalu bala
that means, no matter how much family planning is being done, those souls who are destined to come and are sleeping in Aalam-e-Barzakh will come...
Go ahead do family planning as much as you can :D
Exactly......Allah is the best of Planners.
Re: Family Planning?
Quran tells us about youm al Alast ... Alastu' be rabbekum; qaalu bala
that means, no matter how much family planning is being done, those souls who are destined to come and are sleeping in Aalam-e-Barzakh will come...
Go ahead do family planning as much as you can :D
ALLAH is almighty and i fully agree
Re: Family Planning?
How about enforcing family planning through government ordinance, two children per family? Imposing heavy penalties on violators including ineffective reproduction system.
FARID
Re: Family Planning?
If its in someone's qismat to be born, then do what you will, that person is coming in this world.
very true AQ, but that does not mean that people ahve so many kids that they cant provide for them, 'sell' them into bonded labour or in the 'care' of madrissas.
Its about being responsible,..being responsible to the children one has, to provide them the best one can, to be responsible to the society, and not add to teh number of people who had no opportunities, and no foundation on which they could build a future.
By all means, have all the kids you want if you can afford to give them a good upbringing.
It however seems that the circles where people are not responsible in terms of planning, are the poor, less educated circles, the number of people in this group just increases with each generation.
Re: Family Planning?
I think for Pakistan family planning would be beneficial, but I'm against it by means of unnatural methods such as abortion, sterilization etc. I don't think it's fair to force people to give up their kids without making them realize why. People need to be made aware of overpopulation, and we need education and public awareness to make that happen. Generally educated people have lesser kids than uneducated people. If some people still insist on having kids, I think a fine or regular fee would work. We can do as much as we want to, but in the end, Allah decides it.
By the way is it true that Islam doesn't allow family planning? Because I heard that in Iran the govt encourages family planning (although Iran's shia anyway).
Re: Family Planning?
retroguy, abortion is a whole different issue, its discontinuation of a life, although definition fo life varies based on which school of thought, but regardless unless medically needed its not allowed in any school of thought from what I have read
but to prevent a pregnancy whether its a surgical procedure, or contraceptives available, why would there be a problem with that?
Re: Family Planning?
^^
Taxing per head would be TERRIBLE. It would lead to poor people getting illegal abortions!!!!!!
The only thing that can be done is education. Pepole must be made to realise that neither the government nor NGOs or the private sector have the kind of money it takes to continue providing the current level of services to a growing population, and that Allah SWT isn't exactly making extra money materialise in the government's treasury as the population grows.
People must realise they must choose between continuing to have large families and have their kids experience a falling quality of life, or have less children so that more can be spent per child by themselves and the government.
Re: Family Planning?
but to prevent a pregnancy whether its a surgical procedure, or contraceptives available, why would there be a problem with that?
I think you're raised in North America. The prophet (PBUH) in a hadith ordered his companions to try to have many children so that more Muslims could be born and Islam would grow. Many people believe that even today it is not allowed in Islam to deliberately avoid having many children... besides, how many parents nowadays give there children good Islamic knowledge anyway? Many parents - especially poor ones - just have more kids so that their children can work and earn money for the family.
Re: Family Planning?
^ Fraudia:
my point was being directed towards Abortion and similar practices being used as tool for family planning… I agree with your explanation nonetheless; because we are commanded to plan out everything in this world… Prophet:saw: did plan out the war and pact strategies… If Allah:swt: would have wanted, he:saw: would never have to go through with all that struggle…
Point is that, to do anything in family planning (for ‘anything’ read Farid’s post) is wrong.. just like you can not force people to offer salah but only encourage and preach… it comes to personal level of decision making… The reason it was never implemented on Govt. level ever in olden times was because Islamic countries ruled under the umbrella of Sharia were supposed to be “Welfare Country” where provision of food for its peoples is govt’s responsibilty…
PS: I come from a big family as well.. 
Re: Family Planning?
I think you're raised in North America. The prophet (PBUH) in a hadith ordered his companions to try to have many children so that more Muslims could be born and Islam would grow. Many people believe that even today it is not allowed in Islam to deliberately avoid having many children... besides, how many parents nowadays give there children good Islamic knowledge anyway? Many parents - especially poor ones - just have more kids so that their children can work and earn money for the family.
Actually, I spent a great part of my childhood in Saudi Arabia and a couple years of my teens in Pakistan. I did not come to US until I was 16.
I understand the views people have that they need to have as many kids as possible and all.
and also know that in some cases ppl have many kids so they bring in earnings for the family too. but at what cost, i mean if the vicious circle continues than you would have kids who would have kids just so they can bring in money. generation after generationf of kids that are robbed of a childhood and a chance at making their life better than their parents and to get out of this trend of poverty passing generation to generation.
Re: Family Planning?
... The reason it was never implemented on Govt. level ever in olden times was because Islamic countries ruled under the umbrella of Sharia were supposed to be "Welfare Country" where provision of food for its peoples is govt's responsibilty...
AQ even if it is a welfare society, personal responsibility has to count for something. I mean if people just have kids knowing that other people's tax money will support their kids, I think its utterly irresponsible and selfish.
welfare systems in many countries are crumbling due to the abuse of these systems by people.
these systems were supposed to be there as a safety net, and not as a primary source of sustainance for people.
Re: Family Planning?
Islamic welfare system is different and it was run successfully during the reign of Khulafa-e-Rashideen atleast. The "wazeefa" system from "Bait ul maal" was for the most part for the needy persons... people still used to work and it was the system that made it possible.
other countries where it is being abused is due to the "chor darwaazaY" in the system itself...
Re: Family Planning?
Beautiful posts Fraudz, sorry for my incorrect predictions about your bring-up :p. AQ also has a very good point; we should acknowledge that Pakistan is a democracy (politics-wise in the vein of USA, Canada, India etc), and not a Shariat-run country, in which case the govt would provide all the necessities of its people, a kind of “welfare state” like AQ said (kind of). I don’t think that there is any proper shariat-run country in the world currently; Saudi Arabia claims to be a shariat-run country but I doubt that they’re fully so, have a look at their treatment of expats as an example. But I wonder if sharia states will still encourage population growth after the growth rate has taken its toll on the resources/ environment 
And bringing this issue to Pakistan, you can’t turn a democracy into a sharia state by burning video CDs and parading around the streets in burqas and canes; it’s a massive - and very complicated - procedure to convert a democracy into a sharia state. Considering Pakistan’s established system, I think that family planning will aid in reducing poverty.
Re: Family Planning?
Islamic welfare system is different and it was run successfully during the reign of Khulafa-e-Rashideen atleast. The "wazeefa" system from "Bait ul maal" was for the most part for the needy persons... people still used to work and it was the system that made it possible.
other countries where it is being abused is due to the "chor darwaazaY" in the system itself...
AQ where is wazeefa coming from? from taxes right? and as the load increases taxes on individuals would need to increase to support the additional pressure on resources.
And that is where personal responsibility comes in. I can see this wazeefa helping someone who became disabled, or in a case the primary wage earner passes away, or due to some disaster people's livelihoods are impacted. sure, no issues with that at all.
But one should not have more kids than they can afford to raise properly, and depend on the state to raise them. The wazeefa is a stop gap measure and to deal with the types of situations I indicated above, and should nto factoor in as a source of funding as someone contemplates having a 6th child..
Re: Family Planning?
Back then, the only tax was "Zakaat"
I still believe if that system is implemented and zakaat is made compulsory on muslims who are eligible, and Zimmah tax on eligible non-muslims, that will be enough because I can bet the top richest people in Pakistan do not even pay the govt. regulated taxes... I saw the evidence back in 93 atleast from a paper publihsed by city govt. of Karachi - from mayor's office.
Re: Family Planning?
regardless AQ, zakat/tax same thing. But the point still remains, it should be a fallback measure and to those in need, and should not be seen as a source of funding by people who dont have the resources to give a good life to child #6 etc.
Re: Family Planning?
Back then, the only tax was "Zakaat"
I still believe if that system is implemented and zakaat is made compulsory on muslims who are eligible, and Zimmah tax on eligible non-muslims, that will be enough because I can bet the top richest people in Pakistan do not even pay the govt. regulated taxes... I saw the evidence back in 93 atleast from a paper publihsed by city govt. of Karachi - from mayor's office.
Well, who told you that Zakat is tax or that government has right to collect Zakat from Muslims.
Actually, Zakat is personal deed for Allah. Tax is government revenue and in Islam, government has all rights to impose reasonable tax on people for day to day running of the country or for any reason government feels fit. That is different matter that excessive tax by state on people is Zulum.
It is up to individual that they pay Zakat to those that are illegible of Zakat. But then, if they want to and state has facility of collection and distribution of Zakat, they can give Zakat to state too.
There is misinterpretation that Abu Bakar (RA) fought those Muslims who stopped paying Zakat to state. The thing is that if a Muslim start denying that Zakat is fard in Islam, then that person becomes Murtid. Hence Abu Bakar (RA) fought those that start denying Zakat as fard, else if he fought for any other reason, that would have been against Islam.
If those people had stopped zakat on pretext that they would pay Zakat to whoever they like, there was no need to fight for Zakat, and going to war against such people would have been un-Islamic. I do not think that Abu Bakar (RA) would have done such un-Islamic thing.
As for giving Zakat or not giving Zakat, it is personal deed and no one other then oneself needs to know. Allah tells Muslim to give Zakat to any illegible person, preferably near ones, neighbours, friends, and those one know and believe as needy and illegible of Zakat.
A person cannot give Zakat to those whose financial responsibility is his duty. That is the reason a person cannot give Zakat to his wife, children, or parents. Else, a person is recommended to give Zakat to those near him/her. A person can even give Zakat to his brothers, sisters, cousins, uncles, neighbours, or friends. A wife can also give Zakat to her husband, as husband financial responsibilities are not duty of wife.
Re: Family Planning?
replacement of the two selves - is the best thing. so two is good and hopefully God will be kind in giving one from each gender to those who are wanting to become parents.
Re: Family Planning?
Why is this thread in politics and economics.
Re: Family Planning?
Cut out the discussion over shariat, zakat etc. Pakistan is not one of those "Islamic sharia-based states". Pakistan is a DEMOCRACY. Think about Pakistan in the same way as you would about the US, India or Commonwealth; think of Pakistan as one of these nations, only with a Muslim population. You can't expect a democracy to be the same as a sharia-run state. Sharia-based Islamic states have a radically different political and juridical system than a democracy.