How can Jesus be up in heavens when Holy Quran clearly states that no mortal can go up in heavens ‘bodily’. To prove my point read the following verse:
17: 94. Or, thou have a house of gold or thou ascend up into heaven; and we will not believe in thy ascension until thou send down to us a Book that we can read.' Say, Holy is my Lord ! I am but a mortal sent as a Messenger.’
Was Jesus :as: immortal and (Na’uzobillah) superior to AnHuzur:saw:?
So this clearly is false belief.
I think the correct reference is 17:93
Does this verse apply to Muhammed or to all prophets?
Sidenote: Ahmadis believe 
to be part of the revealed text so their Qur’ans have different verse numbers .. well actually only one verse more… correct me if i’m wrong Ahmadis.
This verse apply to Muhammad :saw: and as such to all prophets (as Muahmmad:saw: is best of the prophets). Here are the following verses in complete context:
17: 91. And they say, `We will not believe in thee until thou cause a spring to gush forth for us from the earth;
17: 92. `Or, thou have a garden of date-palms and vines and cause streams to gush forth in the midst thereof in abundance;
17: 93. `Or, thou cause the heaven to fall upon us in pieces, as thou hast claimed, or, thou bring Allah and the angels before us face to face;
**17: 94. Or, thou have a house of gold or thou ascend up into heaven; and we will not believe in thy ascension until thou send down to us a Book that we can read.' Say, Holy is my Lord ! I am but a mortal sent as a Messenger.’ **
17: 95. And nothing prevents people from believing when the guidance comes to them save that they say, `Has Allah sent a man like us as a Messenger ?’
17: 96. Say, `Had there been in the earth angels walking about in peace and quiet, WE would have certainly sent down to them from heaven an angel as a Messenger.’
17: 97. Say, `Sufficient is Allah for a Witness between me and you; surely, HE knows and sees HIS servants full well.’
It’s true.
Sorry for my ignorance, but thank you for the education.
If this verse is about Muhammed's Night Journey, why would one draw conclusions that this pertains to all prophets?
Seminole,
If this verse is about Muhammed's Night Journey, why would one draw conclusions that this pertains to all prophets?
A very genuine question!
According to the Ahmadiyya Muslim belief (which BTW is also a popular, though not absolute belief of all other Muslims), prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is the greatest among all the prophets. He combined in himself the attributes of all other prophets. This belief is best expressed in words of a famous Persian poet:
Husnay Yousaf, damay Issa, yaday baiza dari
Anchayay khooBaaN hama daranD, tou tanha dari
This Persian verse if translated & paraphrased into English means, the beauty of Joseph, the healing power of Jesus & the bright hands of Moses are great miracles of these great individual prophets but you O Muhammad (saw) combine them all unto yourself.
From the above belief, it is derived that as Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was a mortal, as explained in the verses mentioned in this thread, so were all the other prophets. And if the greatest prophet Mohammad (saw), still a mortal though, is asked to answer to the unprecedented demands of the non-believers to fly into heavens to get them the signs then how can Jesus go up in heavens? The argument follows, that if the belief of Jesus hurling up bodily in heaven, as is believed by the main-stream Muslims, is a common theme among prophets, then why would God not permit such a miracle for Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?
The above verse also is an argument against another common belief among Muslims that the Miraj (the famous and frequently quoted journey to heaven of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) ) was a spiritual one, rather than a physical one as is widely believed.
Why we judge mortality and immortality .. do time and space has same relevance for God and Gods creations? how can one be superior to live longer? Jesus (AS) may be anywhere does it matter.. even he comes back and die or live for ever.. how can we judge Gods actions .. I dont think vast majority of muslims even think about Jesus living somewhere.. a muslim is only concerned about basic faith elements like Tawheed, namaz, Quran, fasting, hajj.. and prophet Muhammad (PBUH) sunnah.. everthing else is irrelevant..
Mortality and immortality are human limitations. Allah :swt: does as he pleases.
Jesus is up in the heavens. Right now he rules the universe and everything else, for he is God.
and surely then Isa(pbuh) is not superior to Muhammad (pbuh) so if Muhammad (pbuh) needed a natural birth process to come into this world, so would Isa (pbuh)....
believe this (that Isa (puh) was born in the same way all humans r born) and u r out of Islam....
so if the birth did not lend Isa (pbuh) superiority over Muhammad (pbuh) than how cud being raised up alive????
Quran 4:156-159
That they rejected faith: that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge.
That they said (in boast) "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary the Apostle of Allah"; but they killed him not nor crucified him but so it was made to appear to them and those who differ therein are full of doubts with no (certain) knowledge but only conjecture to follow for of a surety they killed him not.
Nay Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power Wise.
And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness against them.
read carefully the verses that tell u that Jesus (pbuh) was "raised" by Allah unto Himself, it does not say that he was raised as in just giving him a high rank as some ppl say....
it is very clearly said in context of his death that he was not killed, and he was raised up....
and it is also said that those who doubt in this they have no knowledge and r following their own fancy beliefs....
so stop pretending to be muslims and if u want to call urself a muslim, believe in Quran and Sunna and do not stick to the foolish ideas spread by mirza....
how easy you end a post, to ignore the facts 
Only one person had to be alive and this is AnHz Mohammad :saw: nabiyon ka serdar!!!
and why was Muhammad :saw: supposed to be alive???
dont tell me u believe he is still alive 
btw Shaheed are also alive :).
why?? very easy, to come back and bring the Muslim (again) and whole world to the right path, which is Islam!!
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Originally posted by armughal:
**Nay Allah raised him up unto Himself; *
*
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Question: where was Allah at that time? in the skies? in the heavens?.. or does Allah has some physical existance in the skies or heavens (nauzobillah)?. May be your God live up there, but my Lord is everwhere so its hard for me to understand in which direction Jesus was pulled.
Remember only a physical thing can move towards a physical one and a spiritual towards spiritual. Body is physical thing and Soul is spiritual.
As far as the word you translate as ascention (i.e RAFA), has been used in Holy Quran many times and wherever it is mentioned in relation to human there is only ONE meaning, i.e RAISING THE STATUS. Let me get the verses for you and then ask you why you unjustly translate those verses differently.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by armughal:
**and it is also said that those who doubt in this they have no knowledge and r following their own fancy beliefs....**
[/QUOTE]
same can be said for you also... may be you are wrong, even one part in a million.. think like that.
Repent and ask Alah if you doubt in anything related to Him, surely He is still our living God and He does answer (only if you believe in Him)
Can you tell me why didn’t Huzur:saw: went up in heavens when Kuffar were asking him to do so. If he is the most loving prophet of Allah, and when Allah already has taken one of his prophets up to the skies, then why can’t he take Huzur:saw: to heavens?
And if Huzur:saw: knew already at that time that Jesus:as: is in heavens, why did he say"But I am mortal"?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
read carefully the verses that tell u that Jesus (pbuh) was "raised" by Allah unto Himself, it does not say that he was raised as in just giving him a high rank as some ppl say....
it is very clearly said in context of his death that he was not killed, and he was raised up....
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ARGUMENT: The words in verse 4:159 Bal Rafa'ahollaho Ilaihi --"Nay Allah raised him up unto Himself" clearly shows that Allah lifted Hadhrat Jesus'AS body to heaven.
REFUTATION: As a matter of fact the referred Arabic words simply mean that Allah exalted him (Hadhrat JesusAS) to Himself. Here the exaltation is the exaltation of the soul of which the Jews were trying to deprive him by putting to death through crucifixion, but Allah frustrated them in their evil designs.
In the Holy Quran, the Traditions of the Holy ProphetSAW, the Commentaries and in the Arabic idioms, whenever the word Rafa'a is used by Allah for a human being, it always connotes exaltation of ranks and spiritual nearness, because no fixed abode can be, or has ever been, assigned to God as the Holy Quran declares: "And He is Allah, both in the heavens and in the earth." (6:4) "So withersoever you turn, there will be the face of Allah." (2:116) "And We are nearer to him than even his jugular vein." (50:17) Hence, Rafa'a Ilallah does not necessitate one's physical ascension to heaven, rather this Rafa'a--exaltation is achieved on this very earth.
As a matter of fact that word Rafa'a has never been used in the entire Holy Quran nor in the Traditions of the Holy ProphetSAW as a connotation of physical ascension to heaven as is clear from the following references:
Wa Lau Shi'naa La Rafa'anaaho Bihaa Wa Laakinnahoo Akhlada Ilal Ardhi--"And if We had pleased, We would have exalted him thereby; but he inclined to the earth." (7:177) Here the commentators are unanimous in their interpretation of the exaltation of the ranks of the referred person. It is never meant to indicate the intention of physically raising up the referred person to heaven.
Wa Rafa'anaaho Makaanan Aliyyaa--"And We exalted him (Hadhrat IdrisAS) to lofty station." (19:58) Likewise see: 24:37; 80:14-15; 56:35; 58:12.
Idha Tawaza Al-Abdo Rafa'ahollaho Ilas Samaa Is-Saabiati--"When a person shows humility, Allah lifts him up to the seventh heaven." (Kanzul Ummaal Vol. 2, page 53) This Hadith clearly shows that even if the word Samaa (sky) had been used here instead of Allah, the verse could not have meant anything else but spiritual honor and exaltation. Will the non-Ahmadies believe that every act of humility literally lifts a person up to heaven in both body and spirit? Certainly, there can be no bigger folly than such an inference. Why then draw such inference in the case of JesusAS? Why should he be sent up to heaven alive? Was not this earth sufficient for him as the Quran declared: Alam Najalil Arza Kifaatan Ahya'an Wa Amwaatan--"Have We not made the earth sufficient for the living and the dead?" (77:26-27)
All the Muslims are aware of the fact that there occurs the word Warfa'anee (and exalt me in ranks) in the prayer which the Holy ProphetSAW used to pray between two Sajdas (prostrations). (Kitab Ibn Maja) All the Muslims supplicate this prayer between two Sajdas in their Salat, but does any one ever think that he is supplicating for his physical ascension to heaven? Or, is there any doubt regarding the Holy ProphetSAW's Rafa'a (exaltation of ranks) despite his sojourn on this very earth?
In the Commentary of the Holy Quran known as Tafseer Saafi under the verse Maa Muhammadun Illa Rasool Qad Khalat Min Qablihir Rusul (3:145) the demise of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on him) has been mentioned in he following words: Hatta Idha Da'a Allaho Nabiyyahoo Wa Rafa'a Hoo Ilaihi--"Until when Allah called His Prophet and exalted him to Himself." Now here are words Rafa'a Hoo Ilaihi used for the Holy ProphetSAW had never been interpreted as his corporal ascension to heaven. Is it not strange and outright blasphemy to interpret the word Rafa'a for the Holy ProphetSAW as exaltation of his ranks, and for JesusAS as his physical ascension to heaven?
And what would you say of this:
Another verse of the Holy Quran runs thus:
"And Muhammad is only a Messenger. Verily, (all) Messengers have passed away before him. If then he die or be slain, will you turn your back on your heels?" (3:145)
In this verse of the Holy Quran the passing away of all the Messengers who came before the Holy ProphetSAW has been pronounced; and the passing away has been adjudged only in two ways--either by death or through assassination. Had there been any third way of passing away (like that of ascending to heaven) it should have been mentioned by God. As a matter of fact this verse (3:145) has been revealed specifically to declare the death of Hadhrat JesusAS, as the passing away of other Messengers had already been mentioned in 5:76 wherein Allah says:
"The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; surely Messengers like unto him had indeed passed away before him. And his mother was a truthful woman. They both used to eat food."
It is an admitted fact that the ceasing of Mary's eating was due to her death, hence, on the same analogy, the ceasing of Hadhrat Jesus'AS eating too was due to his death, as both have been mentioned equally.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by zakiahmed: *
And what would you say of this:
Another verse of the Holy Quran runs thus:
"And Muhammad is only a Messenger. Verily, (all) Messengers have passed away before him. If then he die or be slain, will you turn your back on your heels?" (3:145)
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Notice the word "IF". Why did Allah not use the word "WHEN" instead since He is all knowing and ultimately knew how and when the Prophet (saw) would die?
Why is it that the Quran is filled with ambiguity and confusion, that has caused Muslims over the centuries, to interpret it in whatever way they deem fit, gradually dividing instead of uniting them? Yet it claims ".... Truth stands out clear from error" 2:256??
ZALIM: i knew ppl wud come up ith the meaning exalted for the word rafaa and that is why i mentioned that Allah says “Jesus did not die but was raised”…
now it makes no sense to say raised means exalted here cuz saying someone is not dead but exalted makes no sense…
u r talking about two different things…
it clearly says, they thought they killed Jesus, but they did not kill him no crucify him , but Allah raised him…
my interpretation makes more sense…
ZAKIAHMED: u put ALL ni the verse otherwise the Quran only says that prophets have died before Muhammad :saw:, the ALL is not mentioned in the verse…