Is this understood by most to be allowed or encouraged in Islam? Does it mean revenge or justice?
This was posted in another thread:
If a noble person would not engage in ‘eye for any eye’, then why is there no blame for someone who does? Shouldn’t everyone strive to be noble?
And do Muslims think the ‘turn the other cheeck’ preached by the Biblical Jesus was made up, or did the Quran supercede his non-violent message?
Re: Eye for an eye
you cannot enforce nobility, it is the right of someone on whom injustice has been meted out to recieve justice. that said, it is nobler to forgive and be merciful.
but based on that, you just cannot deny people the right to justice.
Re: Eye for an eye
lets say for example (this is s very small case) someone hits you and wants to starta fight with you and calls you all sorts for no apparent reason, it would take a bigger and better person to walk away from this than it would for a person who argues back with the person and starts a fight with them, although if you did hit them back because of what they were saying or the mere fact that they hit you first you wouldnt be held blameworthy, but you would be more noble to forgive the person and walk away.
do you see what i am trying to explain? hope it clears it up!
Re: Eye for an eye
But isn’t the whole idea behind religion to encourage nobility? And is revenge seen as justice? Does hurting someone (verbally or physically) really equate to justice?
Re: Eye for an eye
Allah knows the nature of man, that he wants that justice or taht revenge so Allah says that it is your right to gain justice but it is better that you forgive but you wont be wronged in trying to gain justice.
The main point one should conisder is that Allah knows the wisdom behind everything, and athough we cant see it at times Allah knows best and one should submit oneself to the rules and commands of Allah.
Re: Eye for an eye
encourage yes, but enforce? and yes, i think almost all justice systems do enforce punishment when enforcing justice..
isnt the whole point of being noble lost if you’re acting under compulsion? letting people have the option of extracting justice/revenge gives their act of forgiveness much, much more meaning, than if they were constrained to do so by their religion.
Re: Eye for an eye
That is contradictory. If it is better to forgive then that should be how we strive to live our lives. To say it is preferred but you can do it if it strikes your fancy doesn’t make sense. I have a hard time equating revenge with justice anyway. That allows anyone to make a judgment based on their personal feelings which doesn’t have anything to do with righteousness, but strength of character.
Re: Eye for an eye
justice. Therefore the first part of your question doesnt need to be answered.
None of the Prophets preached the ‘violent’ way of dealing with others. So far as I know they were always for the non-violent way.
Re: Eye for an eye
Why is vengnece single out when so many other things are to be enforced? I mean it is so important to not eat bacon but it’s ok to kill someone because they pissed you off. Wouldn’t men treating women with respect and constraint have more meaning if they did it because it was the right thing to do instead of requiring women to cover up and not socialize with men?
Re: Eye for an eye
its not okay to kill anyone because they pissed you off. the ‘eye for an eye’ is enforced by a judge. vengeance isnt any more important than the other stuff.
see we’re required to do both. men are supposed to deal with women with respect, constraint, protect them from harm etc etc, and women are supposed to cover up. but i dont see how this relates to your thread?
Re: Eye for an eye
Seminole, here is a related ayath from Quran. It is pretty self explainatory, however, if you need to discuss, let me know
005.045
وَكَتَبْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ فِيهَا أَنَّ النَّفْسَ بِالنَّفْسِ وَالْعَيْنَ بِالْعَيْنِ وَالأنْفَ بِالأنْفِ وَالأذُنَ بِالأذُنِ وَالسِّنَّ بِالسِّنِّ وَالْجُرُوحَ قِصَاصٌ فَمَنْ تَصَدَّقَ بِهِ فَهُوَ كَفَّارَةٌ لَهُ وَمَنْ لَمْ يَحْكُمْ بِمَا أَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ فَأُولَئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ
005.045 We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.
Re: Eye for an eye
seminole its not about contradiction....Allah is ar-Rahman ar-Raheem, He fashioned man and understands his nature thats why if we were to gain justice it wouldnt be a sin and we wouldnt be punished.
Re: Eye for an eye
It is another story if we are talking about a judicial system, I understand that concept. I am talking about from a personal viewpoint as the quote in my initial post indicated.
Aren’t women covered up and not allowed to socialize so as not to tempt lustful men? Isn’t the whole point of being noble (men not lusting after women in this case) lost if they’re acting (or not) because women are under compulsion to cover up and be segregated?
Re: Eye for an eye
giving charity is noble....
someone who does not, u cant blame him....
sacrificing ur own pleasure for the sake of someone else's pleasure is noble, but if someone does not do so, u cant blame him....
hence read the middle part of verse 5:45 again....
kaleem has posted the translation above....
"but if someone forgives..............
"eye for an eye" is ur right, but if u forgive the wrong-doer and give up ur right, then u have ur reward with Allah....
but if u do want ur right, then its justice and no blame for u....
what is so difficult to understand in this????
Re: Eye for an eye
I understand society using principles (scriptural or man made) for punishiment, I don't understand if Islam condones individuals using vengence outside of a judicial system.
If vengence (not justice) is condoned, do Muslims think the 'turn the other cheeck' preached by the Biblical Jesus was made up, or did the Quran supercede his message?
Re: Eye for an eye
Semi, vengeance outside of a judicial system is not condoned afaik.
Re: Eye for an eye
Seminole, Quran is talking about justice my friend. Allah is telling you what is fair and just. An eye for an eye, limb for limb is just and fair, however, Allah makes it clear that if you forgive(for christians...turn the other cheeck) you will be rewarded. If I am not mistaken bible aslo talks about an eye for an eye does'nt it? or Do you not believe in First Testament?
Re: Eye for an eye
Thanks, that is what I was after. But don’t you think the ‘eye for an eye’ is more a deterrant to crime and a form of justice than it is vengence?
Re: Eye for an eye
Remember this
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
Mahatma Gandhi (1869 - 1948)
Check your history, mythology, and epic .
All those who took revenge never had happy ending.
If every person start wasting time on revenge, your icons and heroes are thugs, dacoits, and Client East wood. No wonder it is 'root cause of problem.'