Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

Ok. The question or questions may be ambiguous and I’m ready for the outcome/replies but what to do when it bothers you? :smiley:

Do people who do not believe in God believe in the existence of Satan (Shaitan)/Evil or Evil Forces?

Do they believe that evil forces are present and evil is there in the world but God is not?
Or may be do people who believe that God as well as the anti-God or Evil exist also believe that Devil uses the people who do not believe in his existence to convince others that it, or for that matter Jins, angels and other divine forces, do not exist and hence, the unrealized pact between Devil and people who do not believe in it actually works for the Devil?

Are there people out there who do not believe in God’s existence but believe that Evil/Devil/Satan exists?

Lot of questions to answer for you. :smiley:

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

Winner is sent by god and loser is evil force/Shaitan in most of the cases. regarding the main question the jinx asked, i don't think god need shaitan to do the evil work, he is omnipotent enough to this too:)

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?


That is a pretty disturbing statement. God is all about Right and Just. Why would He do evil which will cause chaos? That's very Un-God like. He despises evil and forbid us to be part of it.

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

Then why god created shaitan, and if it was an angel who didn't listen to his commands why not jail him in the hell, god can do anything he wishes, his intelligence is infinite unlike us, but he still gives chances to shaitan to play with human character, most important thing that makes me thing, why god made wine and weed when he despise intoxication at the first place and made human sense so weak against such things?

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

There is a little bit of God and "devil" in all human beings

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

God didn't crated 'shaitan. That shaitan (Jinn-Ibliss) due to his bad behaviour became 'shaitan'. He refused the command of God b'coz he thought he's better than that 'Human' which was created from clay (terra). Rather than putting him in the hell, he was given a chance to prove his stands whereas he challenged that he'll astray the generation of that Human. God said him those who are righteous (on right path) will not follow you (shaitan). So it is like that rather than putting one into jail (without any trials) who committed a crime were given a fair chance to prove his or her stands (being not guilty of that act/crime).

God likes Justice and justice is one of His epithet out of many.

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most important thing that makes me thing, why god made wine and weed when he despise intoxication at the first place and made human sense so weak against such things?
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God made 'marriage' a legal term but still many enagages in pre-marital acts which is un-lawful. God clearly warned not to engage in such act but many disobey. Why then blame God for man's wrong-doing? Why not blame the Shaitan who misguided them? Most important one should sincerely repent and ask forgiveness. Shaitan didn't repented nor asked forgiveness so his followe does the same.

I think those who don't believe in existence of God, not even believe in existence of Satan. The foremost and VIP point of followers of Satan is that 'they must astray pplz but without proving the existence of satan, b'coz once pplz start realizing/believe that the satan exists, than they'll automatically going to start believing in the existence of God.

Quoted from Deepak Chopra's philosophy "Evil, like everything else, depends upon perception. As your perception changes, evil shifts. It’s very important that this shift occurs, because if you remain locked in a rigid hatred or fear of evil, you push your own shadow further out of sight. No matter how hard you struggle to overcome evil, unless you understand your own shadow, it will find new ways to bring back the thing you hate and fear."

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

lkk, so who created shaitaan? and who made his behavior bad?

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

'Satan' is the given name of Ibliss Jinn. Of'coz Ibliss by himself.

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

without the will of god? how is that possible. are jinns the masters of their own destiny?

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

If Ibliss in past, due to his good deeds ranked as 'angel' than why it is not possible if he dis-ranked to that level. Beside angels, I think jinns are given 'freedom of choice' same as given to the 'human'.

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

There are demonic powers in the world, and they appear very powerful. But God has the real power, faslehood doesnt stand a chance

Aik naik aadmi akaila laakhon croron shaitanon par bhari hai, but sometimes God delays his actions because God Loves his creation, he wants the best for them, He wants to give them chances upon chances.

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

point is, iblees etc are god's creations too.

if i write a piece of code that crashes my hard drive, am i not responsible for it?

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

if I want a user not to click a button would i rather not allow him to do so than telling him not to do and expect him to follow?

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

Great to see human logic is being used to explain what God should or should not have done. :D

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

I see all questioning parties are questioning along the same lines. So, answers may overlap, I will try to present my views though.

Why God created Shaitan?

God did not. He created a Jinn called Azazil, who was so pious that he was included in the company of Angels. Difference between Angels and Jinns, and humans for that matter, is that angels do not follow their desire and are not given freedom to choose, whereas Jinns and Humans are. So, Azazil chose to disobey the command of God (most of which us humans do all our lives) and did not bow down in front of Adam. So Azazil created a Shaitan from his ownself. God did not. However, God did not control him and made him obey. He let Shaitan choose his own destiny because he was given freedom to choose. And he did it knowingly.

*and if it was an angel who didn't listen to his commands why not jail him in the hell, god can do anything he wishes, his intelligence is infinite unlike us, but he still gives chances to shaitan to play with human character. Why?
*

Because God initially said to him to get lost but then, Shaitan himself asked him about it and God granted his wish but for a purpose (references from Quran can be provided if needed where full conversation between God and Shiatan is quoted). God said that Shaitan will not have powers over humans to make them do what he wishes. The only power given to Shaitan was the power of suggestion. We were given the sense of right and wrong. Much like when we seek help in some matter, we ask for suggestions to each other but we "choose" what we find the "best" suggestion. If sense of right and wrong is given, then, a person who wants to do good will not be affected by the suggestion of Shaitan. And why did God allow it? well the answer will also cover the next question.

most important thing that makes me thing, why god made wine and weed when he despise intoxication at the first place and made human sense so weak against such things?

God did not create wine, Human Beings did from the resources God created :D
Anyway, the point is. Shaitan, wine, weed, all bad things etc. are with us for many purposes. The main purpose is of course, the test of us. If we were not to be tested, then, concept of Paradise and Hell will be pointless. Another small purpose is so that we can identify between good and bad and refrain from bad. And your argument that we are weak against wine and weed is absolutely non-sensical. We choose delibrately to indulge in using them knowing that they are harmful. But millions of people don't drink liquor and don't do drugs. Are they more strong?

God did not, in both cases. It was Shaitan's own choice to become a Shaitan and disobey but God did not make him do it.

Will of God does not make one good or bad. If one want to be good, God's Will will never make him bad ever. That is the main point to understand. But if someone wants to be bad knowingly and purposefully of choice which understanding the circumstances, God may or may not allow him to be bad. In Shaitan's case he did because there was no chance of good left in him because of his own attitude.

but Shaitan is not crashing any hard drive. Wrong example pal. Shaitan is still within the grand scheme of God. He can not make anyone do bad. He only whispers. We choose the right and wrong. If anything, we are the piece of code crashing the hard drive, if in fact, hard drive is being crashes as you suggested.

Then, why not just enter everyone in paradise & get rid of Hell?

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

This is a rather amusing question. You're asking an atheist if he believes in the devil!

Perhaps a better question would be, if you don't believe in Santa Claus do you still believe in the Easter Bunny? The question is absurd.

This question is for people that** DO **​believe in god and demons!

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

so the question is absurd or is it amusing? I will pick amusing :D

question was more along the lines that if Evil forces exist without the existence of God in views of atheists or do they believe that there is no evil that exists at all? ;-)

re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

I'm not sure you understand what you're asking. Why would a person that does not believe in one fairy tale, gods, according to atheists, believe in another, devils?

Re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

I am not sure you're following my drift or not?

So if evil forces do not exist for atheists, then, surely terrorism does not exist. Goodness me, we're being fooled :(

Re: Evil Vs Divine Existence? Does belief in one mean the existence of other?

Dude! What are you saying? If one does not believe gods and demons exist, then the forward pass in basketball does not exist? Do sixers exist?

Terrorism is a tactic. Like the forward assist in basketball is a tactic. Evil is a perspective, and subjective.