Evil Eye

hypnotix-2000 · March 8, 2007, 4:52pm

Re: Evil Eye

I don't think anyone can read that fast come up with a comment that quickly

sweefs · March 8, 2007, 4:57pm

Re: Evil Eye

i thought it was Surah Naas…you know the last surah in the Quran

or are there more?

hypnotix-2000 · March 8, 2007, 5:02pm

Re: Evil Eye

no sweet.i.f, I have already provided the rendition for the last verses of chapter 114… they don’t speak of “Evil Eye”. The only thing close enough to this is 113 which speaks of Haasid and Hasad which is talking about the evil urge of causing harm out of jealousy. Quran does not advocate superstition. It is a book of pragmatism and practicality.

hareem01 · March 8, 2007, 5:04pm

Re: Evil Eye

not true.....Muslims don't believe that jinn are magical or have magical powers.
nor they can hurt us in any way.
Jinn are creatures like angels and humans etc.......
and talism and mantars ....there is no such thing in islam like mantars.
Why Islam is so difficult for some people...

hypnotix-2000:

Thanks to such a primitive belief rampant among the muslim populace, many who do not necessarily belive in such "hocus pocus", end up giving up on Islam altogether since they have not been exposed to the real meaning of the word jinn. They have a good reason to come to that conclusion however. The idea of jinn as magical beings creates several contradictions in the Quran, which brings us to the question: If the Quran has contradictions, can it be the word of God? This paper is meant to bridge that gap, and to convincingly refute the idea that the word jinn actually means magical beings. In addition, it will be shown that the meaning of the word jinn in the Quran signifies something deeper and more meaningful in terms of pragmatism.

no one leaves Islam bcoz he could'nt understand about jinn.....get a life.
How'll you explain about Allah the Almighty?
If we can't see a thing ...does'nt mean its not exist.
The first sign of a God fearing person is that he believe in the unseen.

you are mistaken...
Every jinn who is evil is a shaitan.And every human who is evil is also a shaitan.
word shaitan can also be used for germs.

hareem01 · March 8, 2007, 5:09pm

Re: Evil Eye

Yes, I've read the story many times....but it has nothing to do with Islam or the concept of jinn in Islam.

i need to cook some food...i'm going now but i'll be back inshaAllah.

hypnotix-2000 · March 8, 2007, 5:11pm

Re: Evil Eye

Yes you can twist it any way you like... but that is my point... today's "belief" regarding Jinn has nothing to do with Islam

hypnotix-2000 · March 8, 2007, 5:24pm

Re: Evil Eye

Please stop associating such nonsense with my post... Ghaib (unseen) and Jinn (Hidden) are not the same in Arabic. Also, what do you know about my "life" to comment like that? Again, being nieve. You clearly have no knowledge of the Arabic language and are relying on translations that are based on tradition.

Again, a nonsensical comment... I have made the difference clear between the attrinute "JNN" as different from the attribute "ShTN".

hareem01 · March 8, 2007, 5:46pm

Re: Evil Eye

save your remarks for the end...let me first finish with your post...

hypnotix-2000 · March 8, 2007, 5:50pm

Re: Evil Eye

you should consider commenting in its entirity if you want others to save their remarks for the end...

mufakkar · March 8, 2007, 6:49pm

Re: Evil Eye

Hypnotix,

Yours is a well thought out and convincing thesis with enough intellectual rigor in it to give merit to your argument. While I also await rebuttals to your POV, I thought you should know that your argument is impressive.

Mabrook · March 9, 2007, 1:18am

Re: Evil Eye

kuch log aisa kuoon sochtay hain k ager koi baat quran main mention nahi tu islam is baray main khamosh hai.If its not in quran its in hadith n there r lots of duas in hadiths for "bad-nazar"also i read one hadith where a sahaba taking ghusal n some other sahaba saw him by chance n said in his heart he has never seen such a beautiful body before.So it happened that the first Sahaba got seriously ill.Now the second person went to Prophet SAW and told wat happened n he thought may b his nazar made him sick.So Prophet SAW said next time always say Mashallah when u praise something.So its not only hasad sometimes praise can also cause "nazar"Then Prophet gav them some method to turn the nazer off.
If u browse thru any book of duas u'll most probably always find dua for nazer there.

hypnotix-2000 · March 9, 2007, 1:37am

Re: Evil Eye

It always comes down to this I guess, so here goes. That is because the Exalted Prophet could not have contradicted the Quran or gone in excess of what is ordained by God. It's that simple... however, people disagree on this. So in the end, do not believe because someone said so. I thought I'd quote these at this juncture:

يأيها الرسول بلغ ما أنزل إليك من ربك وإن لم تفعل فما بلغت رسالته والله يعصمك من الناس إن الله لا يهدي القوم الكفرين
O messenger, deliver what was sent down to you from your Lord, and if you do not then you have not delivered His message; and God will protect you from the people. God does not guide the disbelieving people.(5:67)

ما على الرسول إلا البلغ والله يعلم ما تبدون وما تكتمون
The messenger is only to deliver (not to add to or to abrogate). And God knows what you reveal and what you conceal.(5:99)

ما كان لبشر أن يؤتيه الله الكتب والحكم والنبوة ثم يقول للناس كونوا عبادا لي من دون الله ولكن كونوا ربنين بما كنتم تعلمون الكتب وبما كنتم تدرسون
It is not for a human that God would give him the Scripture and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people: “Be servants to me rather than God!”, rather: “Be devotees for what you have been taught of the Scripture, and for what you studied.” (3:79)

ولو أنا أهلكنهم بعذاب من قبله لقالوا ربنا لولا أرسلت إلينا رسولا فنتبع ءايتك من قبل أن نذل ونخزى
And if We had destroyed them with retribution before this, they would have said: “Our Lord, if only You had sent us a messenger so we could follow Your revelations (nothing else) before we are humiliated and shamed!”[20:134]

Mabrook:

kuch log aisa kuoon sochtay hain k ager koi baat quran main mention nahi tu islam is baray main khamosh hai.If its not in quran its in hadith n there r lots of duas in hadiths for "bad-nazar"also i read one hadith where a sahaba taking ghusal n some other sahaba saw him by chance n said in his heart he has never seen such a beautiful body before.So it happened that the first Sahaba got seriously ill.Now the second person went to Prophet SAW and told wat happened n he thought may b his nazar made him sick.So Prophet SAW said next time always say Mashallah when u praise something.So its not only hasad sometimes praise can also cause "nazar"Then Prophet gav them some method to turn the nazer off. If u browse thru any book of duas u'll most probably always find dua for nazer there.

Mabrook · March 9, 2007, 4:50am

Re: Evil Eye

didn't get ur point at all
its right that hadith supports wat quran says but sometimes when ppl came to Prophrt SAW with problems n questions that quran didn't mention or not elaborated He gave advice which was in accordance with Allah's wishes.Hadith is elaboration of Quran's message.So anywho who believes in quran has to believe in hadith too.

Vedic_Intellect · March 9, 2007, 9:09am

Re: Evil Eye

furqan, it's all BS to me.. im not religious enough to blindly follow any scriptures.... my conscience doesnt allow me .... and about your references from the quran/hadith, they can just be differnt misinterpretations, or exaggerations during translations... eitherway... its BS... no thing as an EVIL EYE..

hareem01 · March 9, 2007, 11:50am

Re: Evil Eye

Are you a Muslim?

hypnotix-2000 · March 9, 2007, 1:13pm

Re: Evil Eye

Typical response, yet again... yes being muslim does not mean someone who does not question. Vedic_Intellect is correct in his question. Islam is a system to lead a pragmatic life that is meant to cleanse ourselves from superstition and conjuncture! Evil Eye is nothing but speculation and superstition...

hypnotix-2000 · March 9, 2007, 1:56pm

Re: Evil Eye

Salam dear Mabrook,

I am sorry but I think you have not understood my POV. Please consult the following:

12:111
لَقَدْ كَانَ فِي قَصَصِهِمْ عِبْرَةٌ لِاُوْلِي الْالْبَبِ مَا كَانَ حَدِيثًا يُفْتَرَى وَلَكِنْ تَصْدِيقَ الَّذِي بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ
Indeed in the history of these men, there is a lesson for people of understanding. As for this Revelation, it could not possibly be a hadith, something that can be fabricated. It confirms the Divine Origin of the previous Scriptures, and gives a detailed explanation of everything. And it is a Beacon and Mercy for all those who accept it.

31:6
وَمِنْ النَّاسِ مَنْ يَشْتَرِي لَهْوَ الْحَدِيثِ لِيُضِلَّ عَنْ سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَيَتَّخِذَهَا هُزُوًا اُولَئكَ لَهُمْ عَذَابٌ مُهِينٌ
But among people, there are those who invest their time in HADITH, which is unfounded, so as to lead those without knowledge away from the Path of Allah, making mockery of it (the Qur'an). For such there is shameful punishment in store.

31:7
وَاذَا تُتْلَى عَلَيْهِ ءايَتُنَا وَلَّى مُسْتَكْبِرًا كَانْ لَمْ يَسْمَعْهَا كَانَّ فِي اُذُنَيْهِ وَقْرًا فَبَشِّرْهُ بِعَذَابٍ الِيمٍ
Whenever Our Verses are conveyed to such a purchaser of Hadith, he turns away in arrogance as if he never heard them - as if there were deafness in his ears. So give him the tidings of a painful doom.

4:87
اللَّهُ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا هُوَ لَيَجْمَعَنَّكُمْ إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَمَةِ لَا رَيْبَ فِيهِ وَمَنْ أَصْدَقُ مِنْ اللَّهِ حَدِيثًا
Allah! There is no god but He. He will summon all of you on the Day of Resurrection about the advent of which there is no doubt. Who can tell you a more reliable HADITH (saying) *than Allah* (not his messenger but Allah Himself - and that is through the scripture and not through someone else)?

45:6
تِلْكَ ءايَتُ اللَّهِ نَتْلُوهَا عَلَيْكَ بِالْحَقِّ فَبِأَيِّ حَدِيثٍ بَعْدَ اللَّهِ وَءايَتِهِ يُؤْمِنُونَ
These are the Messages of Allah We convey to you with Truth. Then, in what HADITH, if not in Allah and His Verses, will they believe?

7:185
اوَلَمْ يَنظُرُوا فِي مَلَكُوتِ السَّمَوَتِ وَالْارْضِ وَمَا خَلَقَ اللَّهُ مِنْ شَيْءٍ وَانْ عَسَى انْ يَكُونَ قَدْ اقْتَرَبَ اجَلُهُمْ فَبِايِّ حَدِيثٍ بَعْدَهُ يُؤْمِنُونَ
Can they not see (and correlate what he tells them with) the Dominion of the heavens and the earth and what Allah has created? Does it ever occur to them that the end of their own life may be near (hence the time to make the right decisions is not unlimited)? What HADITH besides the Qur’an, are they going to believe after him?

It is as if Allah put these verses in the Quran for a purpose... indeed, **Allah-u Khair-ul Maakireen**!

hareem01 · March 9, 2007, 2:12pm

Re: Evil Eye

hypnotix-2000:

Background The concept of the now-traditional jinn theory was derived from dust-devils or whirl-winds ... When beduin in deserts of Arabia saw this phenomenon manipulating the the dust and whirling it in the air, they started to associate this pseudo-body with a living being, and named it jinn or jaan; this idea was further propagated by story tellers and gypsies... foremost of such stories are the Alf Lailah wa Lailah (1001 Arabian Nights). Derived from the Pahlavi Sassanid book "Hezaur Efsauneh" in the time of the Abbasid Caliph Harun al-Rashid, this book had various folk tales about magicians, fairies and demons. The Jinn seem to have been incorporated to displace the demons of the Persian stories.

One could easily consider this as a figment of bedu or folk imagination and not give a second thought about fairytales and their connection to a firm belief among muslims. But one has to wonder that this is hardly a coincidence. Obviously we do not have much interest in bedu mythology since it is of one of the most primitive forms. However, what we should be interested in, is how beduin derived their conclusions about whirl-winds being the jinn, based on the meaning of the word...

One of the original meanings of Jinn also implied nomads and cavemen since they were rarely seen by the "Ins" or city/urban dwellers. In fact, in the early days of the advent of Islam, jinn as a magical being was only one of the meanings and was restricted to story-tellers and folklore (beduin could not see what was causing a dust-devil to form so they associated it with a being that was hidden to sight/perception). The concept that the jinn are actually supernatural beings who whisper into mans heart or cause damage to society, is a completely superstitios belief. Let us look into this myth and sift through the veils of time that have caused much sedimentation of the word: !

So in short you're saying that nomad and cavemen were jinn for city dewellers ...and it is before Islam(correct me if i'm wrong).
Anf for beduins , dust devils and whirl wind were jinn..and this is after Islam.
I can't see any references here.....except 'alif lailah' and everyone knows its a book of made up stories.

hypnotix-2000 · March 9, 2007, 2:14pm

Re: Evil Eye

Please consult the Arabic lexicon such as Lane's and Lisaan-il Arab and you can determine what my references are. Furthermore, I have demonstrated that the evidence is in the Quran itself as well.

And I am saying that Nomads/Cavemen was ONE of the definitions... the overall meaning of the root word JNN is anything that is hidden/veiled/concealed for whatever reason, time, status, form etc, and has been used in the Quran as such. It does not represent mystical beings made from fire... this interpretation of the Quran has crept in due to fabricated Hadith and through conjuncture and superstition, just like the concept of the "Evil Eye".

hareem01 · March 9, 2007, 2:29pm

Re: Evil Eye

hypnotix-2000:

So Jinns Cause Fever and Psychosis? In the middle ages, the pir/fakeer and mullahs used to declare that people with a fever are actually possessed by a jinn since the body feels like it is on fire. You can see this superstitious belief still prevelent in romote areas of Afghanistan, Somalia and other developing countries where mullahs are called in to recite the Quran for people who have fever. It is belived that the person has been possessed by a jinn and reading the Quran will compell the jinn to leave the body, which of course has nothing to do with the root cause of the fever, an infection caused by germs. If it is suggested however, that germs are hidden to the five human senses in terms of direct perception, hence jinn, then that is an acceptable implication as one of the usages for the term.

Another case is that of psychosis and schizophrenia, where people suffering from such symptoms were (and are) dubbed possessed by jinns/demons and were (and are) tortured until they are compelled to say "I am Leaving"...

If we examine the implication of the word jinn from contemporary Arabic perspective, we get nothing but superstitious conjuncture. However, if we were to look at the word in the classical Arabic sense, then jinn implies something hidden to perception. Jinn in this case could be taken as an unknown/unseen cause for the abnormal physiological or psychological condition. Considering the meaning of the word jinn in classical Arabic, we immediately realize that such people need medical and psyciatric help, not an exorcism! It could very well be the case that early physicians or hukama used this term to label undeterminable causes for medical conditions, and this was later adopted by the pir/fakeer and witch-doctors to propagate superstitions for their selfish gains. !

No knowledgeable muslim believes that people are possessed by jinn or they can be possedded by jinn.
'peer faqir' usually in Asia do weird things like beating the 'the possessed person' etc....again it has nothing to do with Islam or Jinn.