Erp --- Sap

Society Business and Career
1

OK guys, I am considering persuing post grad studies…
the course i,m interested in is..

Master of Business in ERP Systems.

SAP/r3 would be the model ERP used throughout the course. I have previously done a Bachelor of Information Systems.

Now the thing with ERP and SAP is, its very expensive, and only medium to large companies can afford it. I think SAP probable hasnt even reached Pakistan yet, or maybe implemented in a couple of the big companies. Its basically an all in one business solution with many different modules like accounting, HR, logistics etc. etc.

My question is, is it a wise career move, considering i,m very positive about me doing well in it inshallah… the thing is, how good is it as a career move? plus… normally, SAP has itsown ceritifications and they are VERY expensive. Lately, they have been forming alliances with different universities and offering introductory subjects. The course I am talking about is pretty full on, and has extensive SAP subjects and modules being taught, also, it is SAP approved and upon completion, a joint certificate from SAP and the university would be awarded for each of the SAP approved subjects done. The problem is, the university isnt one of the big guns, a rather “normal” sort of university with a mediocre reputation. Does is really matter what university you are choosing, and in this case, only this particular university is offering the whole masters program.

Any of the IT guru’s or senior people who have been associated with ERP or SAP, can you please share your opinion regarding this career move looking at the future trends and expected growth regarding the ERP and SAP. What kind of oppertunities exist in the market for a graduate of such a degree…? As I know SAP is here to stay and is expanding…

thanks…

2

SAP is actually very cool

one of my best friends is working with developing SAP technology in Pakistan and the scope here is awesome

i know that in silicon valley america too there is a presence of SAP

if you're into it, go for it...

3

Hey Kaka,

After finishing my undergrad, I was involved in e-HR projects involving SAP implementation and training - there are numerous opportunities in SAP consulting and implementation.

Having said that, I have my reservations about a graduate degree in ERP systems - the reason being that practitioners are already realizing weaknesses in these systems which need to be bridged using other technologies.

An example from work experience is using e-Business techs in addition to SAP HR modules to implement a comprehensive solution for our clients. Similarly, in Supply Chain Management, ERP tends to make only one of the components of a collaborative business solution.

In my opinon, graduate studies should be expansive and all-encompassing and SAP should be used as an exemplar. In my MBA program, we had regular Operations Management courses, Info Sys Courses and Knowledge Management courses and somewhere in the curriculum SAP was used to show the technical aspects. People who were interested in SAP Business Analyst certification had to complete three of these courses with 20% SAP content, and the University then had a final course they had to do before they could achieve the cert.

I took all the SAP courses, and complemented those with courses in Enterprise Implementation Consulting and ERP Strategy.

So while having done a lot of SAP courses, my MBA concentration was in Knowledge Management. Similarly, my colleagues had their concentrations in Finance, HR etc. but had the SAP cert in addition to their degrees.

All in all, it all comes down to treating technology as an "enabler" of business processes, and you need to understand the business processes before you embark on technical aspects of implementation. Technology should never be an end in itself, but a means to an end... an enabler of business processes.

That's my experential opinion... hope that helps. Good Luck with everything!

4

Just an addition:

Although SAP seems to be "almighty" in the ERP market, their market share has been falling over the last years. It is still above 50%, but ORACLE Apps is on Number 2 already.

5

^^ Umer,
the solution that we implemented for two of our clients were based on Oracle 11i and hence the need for an e-Business infrastructure. In my opinion, Oracle is definitely stronger in quite a few aspects of enterprise systems.

The market share for these companies according to Gartner is somewhere in the range of 25% for SAP, 8% for Oracle, 6% for Peoplesoft and around 5% for MS Business Solutions.

But then again, new license software revenues for ERP systems are declining no doubt because of the shift in buyer behavior towards other complementing technologies.

6

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Umar Talib: *
^^ Umer,
the solution that we implemented for two of our clients were based on Oracle 11i and hence the need for an e-Business infrastructure. In my opinion, Oracle is definitely stronger in quite a few aspects of enterprise systems.

The market share for these companies according to Gartner is somewhere in the range of 25% for SAP, 8% for Oracle, 6% for Peoplesoft and around 5% for MS Business Solutions.

But then again, new license software revenues for ERP systems are declining no doubt because of the shift in buyer behavior towards other complementing technologies.
[/QUOTE]

SAP has only 25%? That number appears to be too low, if you ask me.

7

naah Umer… its just that we tend to hear about SAP all the time… indeed to a lot of people, they’ve become synonymous with ERP - great marketing I say!

These people tend to agree with the market shares I posted before. Here’s a summary of the ERP market shares.
http://techupdate.zdnet.com/enterprise_software/erp_pd.html

8

I was involved with ERP and Financial systems implementations from ’98 – ‘01. I haven’t worked with the big names as my target companies were midsized companies…however, it gave me a good understanding of business processes. I have been involved in business process re-engineering for various departments..from shop floor data collection, manufacturing to accounting month-end closings. If I had a chance of doing masters in ERP implementation, I would have definitely pursued it.
If you have time and money then I would definitely encourage you to go ahead. Getting a job in the beginning might be a challenge but it will help you later in your career. Companies who have budgets to invest in products like SAP also have enough dough to hire consultants who have been there done that. Learning SAP won’t hurt though…you can apply your knowledge towards other products as well…its just a matter of getting your foot in the door. Good luck.

9

Thanks for ur replies guys,

As I,ve mentioned before, I already am an IT graduate, but I have noticed that these days, its all about one speciality, nobody wants a jack of all trades and master of none, which is what an IT degree is these days. They touch upon a lot of different aspects reagarding IT, but at the end of the day, you are just a plain graduate and gone are the days when you were getting phonecalls from different states to come work for them while you were working on your assignments in the labs. I have tried my luck looking for jobs, but I guess its all about who you know, and how much experience you have in the field these days. So, to persue a Master of business in ERP systems, my aim is to choose one field and try and make it a speciality.

like umer mentioned, i,ve also heard that Oracle is catching up with SAP and some even call it a better ERP system than SAP, but it still is an ERP at the end of the day, and afterall, the degree is about ERP and not SAP, SAP is the model ERP used though.

I still think SAP is here to stay, and although its been there in the US for quite some time, SAP is still relatively new to Australia, and it has hardly reached places like Pakistan, so i,m assuming that the future is still bright. Its all about getting your foot in the door like Boss said...

I do hope its a wise career move. Please do share your opinions regarding the future of SAP.

Umer Talib,

thanks for your detailed reply... the course isnt really on SAP, but on ERP systems, and SAP is the model ERP used... also, I think its quite extensive, and not totally SAP specific, and since its a Master of Business, I think they have touched upon a broad range of topics that are somewhat related to ERP systems I guess. Please have a look and see what you think.

Master of Business in ERP Systems

The Masters course is offered on a full-time basis over three semesters or part-time equivalent. Students must complete 12 subjects to graduate.

Six core subjects:
Enterprise Resource Planning Systems
Business Process Engineering
Supply Chain and Logistics Management
Organisation Change Management
Enterprise Resource Planning Systems Implementation
Strategic Use of Enterprise Resource Planning Systems

Two (2) specialisation subjects from:

Management of Information Technology
Enterprise E-Commerce
One elective subject

Plus four electives:

Applications Programming Techniques (SAP's ABAP programming language)
Transaction Programming Techniques (Advanced ABAP programming)

Client Server Technology (Install/Configure SAP)

ERP Systems Administration
Enterprise Project Systems (SAP's PS module)
Planning & Control through ERP Systems (SAP's PP module)
Human Resource Information Systems (SAP's HR module)
Computerised Accounting in an ERP System (SAP's FI module)
Enterprise Applications Integration
Information Systems Applications Development (Work Experience placement into an SAP project)
Or alternative approved by the course co-ordinator

Others, please comment as well,,, cos afterall, its a big career move, at least for me. Thanx.

10

I am with SAP for around one half year , its great things , the good thing is new release SAP NetWeaver 2004 is very promising..

There is good scope of SAP Consultant here in Middle East ..

11

Thanx bro.

12

Yup, if you check the Aramco job site, they have plenty of opening for ERP professionals(http://www.jobsataramco.com/index1.html).
Personally, I have had some training in peoplesoft and have coded an application that interfaced with an ORACLE ERP implementation. I dont have any particular favs but ORACLE ERP definately is gobbling up SAP’s market share. Although, I have not seen many Oracle ERP gigs in Saudi.

13

SAP consultant speaking. I am amazed that somebody would want to do a Masters in SAP....not that SAP does not have a long term career potential but really learning SAP isn't exactly rocket science worthy of a post-graduation subject.... Normally you pick a module either functional- SD/MM/FI etc or technical (ABAP/SAP portal/BW etc) and then learn it either on the job or do a 2-3 months training.... Its better to do a Masters in a generic functional area (e.g. MBA with specialization in Operations or Finance etc.) and use your acquired business process knowledge to look for SAP(or any other ERP) opportunities.

Also, in the US, SAP certification is not worth the paper it is printed on. Clients are usually looking for consultants with real world SAP work experience in their business vertical and who have specialized domain knowledge.

14

some1 got it right.

u can pick up much of the stuff, i have worked on projects including peoplesoft, oracle, JDE, lawson, and othe rtechnologies like plumtree, vignette. did nto study these, just had to understand them, and although not an expert I had to be functionally knowledgeable to work in project implementation.

I would suggest getting a masters focusing in a key area of your choice, finance, op mgmt, mkt whatever, technology changes..approaches change..and even packaged solution companies reinvent themselves and overhaul their offerings. get some basic background in it, but i would not suggest getitng a masters in ERP

15

ohee tey mey key reya see :) dats vat I was saying too...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Some1: *
SAP consultant speaking. I am amazed that somebody would want to do a Masters in SAP....not that SAP does not have a long term career potential but really learning SAP isn't exactly rocket science worthy of a post-graduation subject.... Normally you pick a module either functional- SD/MM/FI etc or technical (ABAP/SAP portal/BW etc) and then learn it either on the job or do a 2-3 months training.... Its better to do a Masters in a generic functional area (e.g. MBA with specialization in Operations or Finance etc.) and use your acquired business process knowledge to look for SAP(or any other ERP) opportunities.
[/QUOTE]

Kaka, for me, BPR, SCM, ERP, ERPI, ERPS, i.e. all your core subjects are the actual essentials of understanding the scope and application of ERP systems in business processes. These I have no hesitation saying are mighty useful to have under your belt as a consultant... the electives I must say though need not be that many when it comes to technical application - this is something you will have to adapt to depending on the client's situation. You may need to pick up a different module, or learn something about a system or workflow that your client is using.

Overall, I see this program as very technically oriented, and given your background in I.S., I do not see synergies between the academic disciplines because after a certain point, learning new technology becomes professional routine and I wouldn't spend a full year or 2 years of my life learning something this specific, but rather learn it on an as-needed-basis - that is what industry endorsed certification programs are for!

Dats just moi two cents.

[QUOTE]
Six core subjects:
Enterprise Resource Planning Systems
Business Process Engineering
Supply Chain and Logistics Management
Organisation Change Management
Enterprise Resource Planning Systems Implementation
Strategic Use of Enterprise Resource Planning Systems

Two (2) specialisation subjects from:

Management of Information Technology
Enterprise E-Commerce
One elective subject

Plus four electives:

Applications Programming Techniques (SAP's ABAP programming language)
Transaction Programming Techniques (Advanced ABAP programming)
Client Server Technology (Install/Configure SAP)
ERP Systems Administration
Enterprise Project Systems (SAP's PS module)
Planning & Control through ERP Systems (SAP's PP module)
Human Resource Information Systems (SAP's HR module)
Computerised Accounting in an ERP System (SAP's FI module)
Enterprise Applications Integration
Information Systems Applications Development (Work Experience placement into an SAP project)
Or alternative approved by the course co-ordinator
[/QUOTE]

16

thanx for ur replies guys, I would like to again mention here that its a master of BUSINESS concentrating on ERP systems. Its not a master of SAP, I would be learning the core concepts involving businesses using ERP's, so it basically applies for all kinds of ERP's like SAP or Oracle etc...

Also, you have to understand here that I am not a seasoned professional with 10 years of experience under my belt to be looking for SAP or other ERP oppertunities based on my current knowledge or experience(which is literally 0). I am only a recent graduate, and you all know how these days no one even spits at IT graduates with mediocre grades :D unless you know someone, or are a straight A student. If I was a seasoned professional like you fraudia, I would never consider doing it, but as a fresh graduate, maybe the extra exposure to ERP systems and SAP/ ABAP programming etc. might let me get my foot in the door. I agree that the technology changes, but I still think ERP still has a future... and also, because of the costs involved, I dont think a company that has recently installed SAP or Oracle would just ditch it and move on to another system(the really big ones probably can, but medium sized companies would think 10 times before taking that step, considering the costs involved)... also... if we look at the trends at places like Pakistan, ERP and SAP etc. are only starting out... and I think graduating by the end of next year would be a pretty good time to sort of get into the market.... Also, the course offers a work placement in one of the subjects so my resume shouldnt be totally blank after I graduate,, and if I do well enough,,, stuff like ABAP programming etc. could land me that much needed first job that could be a programming or even just a junior support role to start with,, and after that, things slowly start getting easier.... and ERP and SAP is quite old in the US, but I believe asia might still have good oppertunities for someone with my skills set...

any comments? suggestions? advice?

17

I would just like to add that you guys were talking about certifications or training courses for SAP/ERP etc... well lets just say, they are out of my pocket's reach. This masters program is affordable, and gives me reasonable enough exposure to hopefully secure an entry level position.

18

kakay, i know what you are saying.

couple of poits, the changes in ERP systems over the years meant the type of changes in the software releases, they evolve overtime so you will have to continue learning.

having ERP experience, especially with certification fees out of reach, is a good point.

I would suggest balancing your electives so you are not conrnered into a very specific area, get some footing in it but dont let that be the complete focus.

companies hiring fresh grads woukd be interetsed in not just ERP skills but what functional/subject matter experience you bring to the table. as long as you have the basic skills to get in the doors, companies will pay to upgrade, and add to your skills per their needs.

19

Looking at the list of courses that you have provided, none of the required courses or specialization electives are focused on SAP directly. They are very generic courses which can be applied to most industries and various products. Only the four electives that you have to choose towards the end of your degree are SAP focused and I think that is an added benefit to your resume.
If you have a choice between masters in ERP or Business Administration then go for ERP. Every other guy in Pakistan is an MBA nowadays and if you are planning to go back then you should definitely do something that gives you an edge.

20

Kaka,
can you provide more details about the actual program - email me a URL if you want...

If the school is a member of the SAP University Alliance, then you can certainly take generic courses in Operations, Finance, HR or even domain specific ones in SCM, CRM, KM. As long as these courses have SAP content in them (say 5-7 classes out of 25 talk about SAP), after finishing your degree, as a Univ. graduate you can get the certification from SAP for significantly lesser fees.

e.g. after my MBA, the Business Analyst certification from SAP which traditionally costs CDN $6500, all the grads from my Univ who had completed three courses with 20% SAP content were able to get that for CDN $2000.

Its a matter of personal choice though... with my experience in the industry - mind you I only have about 3 years of SAP experience, but that's experience nonetheless, a Masters in ERP doesn't make much sense for someone who has no work experience under his belt. If my consulting firm was to engage someone, they'd much rather go for someone who's done similar practical work before - certified/not certified/degree/no degree would come in second.

A Masters in ERP makes much more sense for someone like BoSS who has years of ERP experience and this will be an attractive add-on to his portfolio.

With my colleagues who graduated with me from the M.B.A. only two of the people I know got into ERP consulting at Accenture and BearingPoint and this was not because the companies saw their SAP cert and SAP training in school, but they had multiple years of ERP experience before.