It is often true that women go for the jugular when it comes to divorce. In our culture most often it is because the chances of resettlement for a woman are significantly lower than for the divorced man so there is this inherent need of self-preservation. And if children are involved and they are (as most often occurs) ending up living with the now-single mom, then she needs some additional buffer as her ability to go out and earn is often limited by the need to look after them.
By the same token, there are countless examples of men out there that claim to “love” their children but will fight tooth and nail to have their monthly child support payment reduced by showing false income statements and claiming poverty.
I agree. I just don’t get why I am told to grow up or stop behaving childishly when I want my gender to practice self preservation yet when women do this, they are given shahbash.
I don’t get this attitude either. It has to be a mutual decision or GTFO, you ain’t special. Everybody sacrifices something to make their career. I haven’t wanted a kid yet because I want to get to a certain point in my career. I am 100% committed to my marriage therefore don’t think about my contributions. I offer everything that I have and I am happy to do so. In return, husband does the same. I support him as he supports me in my career. Now hubby wants a kid and I am getting myself to a point where I am ready for a kid and he realizes it will have some impact on my career but it’s a mutual decision and we will work through it. Point is don’t expect your honay-wala to have no expectations if you have a million yourself.
It doesn’t have to be GTFO situation, however if a man decides he wants his wife to be a housewife, she should be entitled to 50% assets plus spousal support (child maintenance is a given either way) in case of divorce. Similarly, if a woman unilaterally decides to become a housewife even though the husband opposes this view, is it right that he should potentially subsidies her ass with spousal support in case of divorce where he isn’t to blame? I don’t think that’s right.
I think the objection in this thread to the whole 50/50 split is not whether or not it’s fair, but whether or not it’s realistic and doable.
There has to be a significant difference between a business contract such as the one you have described in the quotation above and a contract of marriage. If you remove emotion from a marital relationship, you may come close to a business agreement but is that really possible to do? And if you happen to arrive at an affirmative answer, then is it the right thing to do? What does removing compassion and emotion from a spousal relationship do to the quality of life that you anticipate?
Ultimately many of these questions only arise when breakdown occurs. Until then most average people are happy to ignore their contributions to the union and happily plug along.
That’s not what marriage is. In marriage you put the other first. You compromise. That’s how marriages work. This kind of attitude doesn’t serve to make marriage work.
Right…ALL other Muslim women are clingy and bat**** crazy after marriage EXCEPT the women in your immediate family. I guess now I have a lot of sympathy for your mother/sister. Whatever your mother/sister has shown you all your life…the fact that watching other women overshadowed all that is sad.
Well, whatever you do, make sure you do IVF and choose a male sperm. I’m sure you wouldn’t want to end up with a daughter b/c after all, she’ll grow up to be bat**** crazy, clingy and totally destroy some man’s life.
^ :k: I’m not sure why this is such a difficult concept for people to get. There is nothing wrong with splitting bills and expecting a working wife to contribute towards living expenses. However, both husband must be flexible. Life happens and things change. Its fine for husband to ask that wife contribute/split the bills…but he should also realize that there may be a time she may not be able to or want to work due to pregnancy/recovery/wanting to be at home WHILE THE CHILDREN ARE YOUNG.
If the husband’s salary is more than the wife’s, or if he’s giving his money to his family on a regular basis, OR if his parents are going to something move in with them…then it’s not fair for him to expect that his wife contribute to 50% of the bills. It’s beyond ridiculous to “count pennies” in a marriage. He wants to pay rent/mortgate and asks her to pay all the bills/groceries…great. In my case, my husband pays for pretty much everything. I do 90% of the grocery shopping so I pay for that and whenever I shop for myself, I pay for that. All my salary that’s saved, I don’t treat it as “my” money. Just like my husband doesn’t treat his salary as “his” money. If we buy another another house and he wants me to contribute cash to downpayment or decades later we need “my” money for retirement whatever…he knows I’ll contribute whatever. If we divorce, then ALL assets (his income AND mine) will be community property and will be subject to division.
If a man is counting pennies before the nikah and is treating this like a roommate situation…where he’s literally going to divide ALL bills/expenses in half…then sooner or later, that will cause problems. And on the flip side, if a woman expect housework/cooking to be split straight down the middle…that will cause problems too. OP and this guy both seem like they’re putting down conditions that are inflexible and if these conditions are not met, it will lead to resentment, and many unhappy years down the road (or divorce).
In any happy, successful relationship, there are no scorecards. Think about it…with good friends, we don’t keep track of how many times she called me and I called her, how many times I made plans or she made plans etc. etc. etc. Similarly, in a marriage, 50/50 or equal partnership is not a literal thing. When someone wants to take out a calculator to split expenses 50/50, or if someone is adamant that the other person must do 50% of cooking/cleaning…it’s will lead to disaster b/c sooner or later, something will go wrong and it will lead to resentment/arguments.
This guy is choosing to take a job closer to you and take a pay cut. You did not force him to do this. HE chose this b/c at some level, he felt you are worth that sacrifice. Yet, he’s making it seem like this is all for your benefit. It is not. Ideally, he should realize that this “sacrifice” is also for himself b/c if he did you see you as a “benefit” for himself, he would not agree to the move. It would have fine if he approached the situation with the approach “Oh hey brown eyed, I’m taking a pay cut and will have trouble paying all the bills. Since you are working, how about we have joint finances and share the expenses. Or can you give 50% of your salary to me so I can use that to pay our bills/rent etc.”. He does not see the two of you as a team. Just like a roommate, he’s saying “Well I took a pay cut for you so you need to do this for me”. This attitude…this keeping of a score in such a specific way which is unrealistic btw, will lead to a lot resentment for BOTH of you in the future.
“Probably”? Based on how this guy is approaching this, you better be 100% sure about what you want. Are you 100% sure that you have 0% interest in being a stay-at-home mom while the kids are young? Is he 100% ok with you taking such a drastic pay cut and giving up half you salary after kids? All your expenses will increase after you have kids. So both of you better figure this out right nownand how your “lifestyle” will change if you go part-time.
That’s fine. But IF it does happen later on, how does he propose you split expenses 50/50 then? How will you split household cost, electric bills, groceries etc. if his parents are living in the same house and using all the same things. When you go out to a restaurant or vacation, is HE going to pay for his parents means/tickets/hotel room etc. ALWAYS? Again, you don’t want to argue about this years later once you’re in the marriage with kids do you?
Read over and over what you yourself wrote above. You already know that you won’t be satisfied with his cooking/cleaning and its pretty much guaranteed that YOU will end up doing most of it while contributing exactly 50% of all other costs. And you already know it will cause you to be upset/feel resentful. Forget what other women do b/c their feelings may not be the same as you and their husband’s may not be like yours. Focus on yourself, your feelings/expectations of marriage.
From where I’m sitting, this is what it looks like. And you are right…there is not “perfection” in marriage. That’s what several of us are trying to tell you. There is no exactly 50/50 split in a happy marriage. Things are not always perfectly equal and you can’t keep a scorecard of what person is doing to make sure that everything is “fair”. Unfortunately, that’s what BOTH of you are planning on doing in this situation.
Pre-nups are not strictly enforceable or legally binding in the UK (England and Wales). It is just one factor amongst many that the courts consider, the courts have wide ranging discretion under UK laws re divorce settlements etc.
This. Prenups are an evolving concept here in the UK that is still dependent on what side of the bed the judge wakes up on. A woman can challenge it and ask for it to be thrown out by making false domestic violence, marital rape and emotional abuse claims. The only way British Pakistani men can protect themselves is by doing just the nikkah without the civil registration. I’d want any daughter to be like my sister purely because my sister, although not married, already talks about the willingness to compromise i.e. living with in laws, doing khidmat whilst working a professional job, not making a mountan out of a molehill etc - we have to tell her to be more like the other women in my family like my phupo’s and their daughters etc. that are selfish, but she reminds us that half these women are either divorced because they tried to lead their relationships and compete with their husbands or have been put in their place with assets being locked up by even more chalak husbands. My experience of British Pakistani women, is exactly that, mine. From 8 years or so of working in the city, to going to uni and college, most British Pakistani women I have come across are self centered and entitled. Are they all like that? Hell no. But the ones I would consider marriage material have been betrothed at birth to mamu or chahchu’s son back home in either Mirpur or Jhelum. What’s left isn’t worth it in imo, however on the flipside, freshie pakistani women are probably worse. At least with British Pakistani women their isn’t much chalaki, it’s all in your face, what you see is what you get. So what’s a man to do?
Lol, no she isn’t - my family is from Lahore back home, plus my family aren’t in to the whole incestuous cousin marriage thing. I’m sure I’ll find someone to put up with me, but I won’t be a doormat “ji biwiji” yes man nor will I be a narcissist like most paki men.
I guess now I have a lot of sympathy for your mother/sister. Whatever your mother/sister has shown you all your life…the fact that watching other women overshadowed all that is sad.
