Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

majority balochis are defiintely sunnis.......in fact thats the dividing line btw iran and balochistan........paki balochistan is predominantly sunni, iran predominantly shia........however, the complicating factors are 1) in spite of a majority of shias in iran, sunnis there are in a comparably-sized minority whicgh is not as marginalised as balochs are by punjab and sindh. 2) balochis are marginalised in pakistan..........so in the end being in sunni-dominated pakistan doesn't help the balochs way above than in being in the shia-run iran, but where their local culutre is not marignalised.....plus balochs have strong tribal and familial ties on both side of the border, esp since the borders porous.

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

^^ So you are of the opinionthen that iran maybe causing internal rift? You know that Iranians don't really like Pakistanis (thats the impression I get).

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

No, no. Iran has nothing to do with this problem. And Shia, Sunni problem was never the cause of concern as far as this particular issue of Baloch disaffection towards the center is concerned. They have a MArxist-Leninist mindset and that is also/ was also the reason they despised the governmental policies. Even during the insurgency that was brutally put down by Bhutto in the 70's, Iranian government helped Pakistani government instead of supporting the Balochis on this side of the border. See, they fear that their own people( Iranian baloch) might end up taking arms, so the Iranians would never risk supporting any secessionist (sp) tendencies or elements in Pakistan.

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

^^ Thanks for clearing it up. As I had mentioned I am not well versed in Baluchistan, but was looking for conspiracy theory (that we or I are so used to :D).
I didn't know that there was a Baluchi Insugency in 70s. Is that the reason that one of the Military Staff College is in Baluchistan, to make the baluchis happy that pakistanis are investing in baluchistan.
Why are Baluchis treated (thats the impression I get) as second class citizens? Why such discrimination?

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

In the 1970's there was a Pakistani military operation aimed at quelling a rebellion in the south west of Balochistan by Balochis seeking independence. Most of the group's supporters were either killed or captured during the crackdown. Independence for Balochistan has been quelled with military force in 1948, 1956, 1970s.

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

Yeah Nick, and yesterday Mushie warned Balouchis that it is not the ‘70s’, and if they pulled out some trick, they wouldn’t know what ‘hit’ them. This coming from the leader of Pakistan is a shameful piece of shyt. How can he possible say something like that. Baluchis have been given a raw end of the deal. I think a separation (independence for them) is not a distant possibility. May Allah :swt: let them have their own country and they be master of their own destiny. Amen.

Yogi… do you mean to imply that Philippinos should set the price of Saudi oil? Or should it be dictated by supply and demand? Natural resources mean natural resources, and they belong to people who own the land.

Here’s what’s in today NYTimes.

:jhanda:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/13/international/asia/13pakistan.html

Pakistan’s Army to Confront Nationalists in the Southwest
By SALMAN MASOOD

Published: January 13, 2005

SLAMABAD, Pakistan, Jan. 12 - Army troops have been sent to Pakistan’s largest natural gas field, in southwestern Baluchistan, after attacks by Baluchi nationalists forced the authorities to close the plant, officials said Wednesday. Pakistan pledged tough action against the nationalists, who are demanding greater royalties for the gas extracted in their area.
Speaking at a news conference in Islamabad, the capital, Interior Minister Aftab Ahmed Khan Sherpao said “punitive action” would be taken if the tribesmen did not halt their attacks on “national assets.” At least eight people have died and several have been wounded since Friday in clashes between government forces and the nationalists. Mr. Sherpao said the attackers fired 14,000 small-weapon rounds, 435 rounds from rocket launchers and 60 rounds from four-barrel mortars at the Sui gas plant.
On Tuesday, the tribesmen stormed the plant and tried to take control, according to Pakistani officials. They were driven back after a fierce gun battle, but the attacks damaged high-pressure pipelines at the purification plant, which was closed for fear of leaks of poisonous gas. Gas supplies to parts of the country, particularly industrial operations, were suspended as a result. Officials said the supplies would be restored in the next couple of days. The Sui plant meets 22 percent of Pakistan’s gas needs.
Baluchistan is the largest of Pakistan’s four provinces, and is rich in mineral and natural resources. But it also has high illiteracy, unemployment and poverty, which have fueled grievances against the government.
A low-level insurgency, which has been simmering for years, has gained momentum in recent months. Baluchi tribesmen want a greater share of natural resources and oppose additional garrisons by the military, and have criticized the development of a giant port project in Gwadar, in the southwest.
The violence poses a mounting challenge to President Pervez Musharraf, an important ally of Washington in fighting terror. In a television interview on Tuesday, General Musharraf issued a stern warning to the nationalists: “Don’t push us. It’s not the 70’s, when you can hit and run, and hide in the mountains,” he said, alluding to the military operation to quell a rebellion in Baluchistan in the 1970’s. “This time, you won’t even know what hit you.”
But official warnings seem to have little effect on the disgruntled tribesmen, who have continued their attacks across the province, on government installations and personnel. Low-intensity rockets have hit the provincial capital, Quetta, several times in the past six months. A deadly bomb attack there in December killed 11 and wounded 30, according to Pakistani news reports.
In an apparently unrelated development on Wednesday, unidentified gunmen in Rajanpur, in southern Punjab, which borders Baluchistan, kidnapped 11 workers of the Water and Power Development Authority, the state-owned power company. Three engineers were among those taken captive. The cause of the kidnapping remained unclear, according to police officials.

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

*General Musharraf issued a stern warning to the nationalists: "Don't push us. It's not the 70's, when you can hit and run, and hide in the mountains," he said, alluding to the military operation to quell a rebellion in Baluchistan in the 1970's. "This time, you won't even know what hit you."
*

Mr. John, please do not divert the discussion at hand by bringing in irrelavant points. These are two separate issues: one at the inter-state level while the other is a local issue (intra-state, if you want to refer it as that). So, stick to the topic, please.

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

I suggest before you start putting his words into different contexts, please could you do some research on Balouci Struggle, and how they have damaged several importantprojects that would have undoubtly helped them out… A good source would be the BBC “Very Impartial”… Unlike the NY TIMES or FOX.

Secondly, if you want to drag Kashmir which i may point out to the MODS is a clear indication of creating a flamer and diversion… Look at your own back garden first, before you start weeding your neighbours!

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

I don't really wanna get into a separate argument about Baloch independance, because the Baloch are not as homogenus as some people seem to think and the argument isn't as simplistic as it appears..there are large baloch tribes in Sind and Southern Punjab who have no interest in this sui gas issue.

Factually Pakistan has NOT been good for the Baloch, as a whole they have benefitted very little from Pakistan..and have contributed disprportionately to the nation..are poorly represented at all levels..(sindhis although they are under represented have had significant political power).

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

i kinda disagree…an underlining reason balochi nationalist threat is not squashed by the punjabi army is becoz u cant be too sure how ‘strong’ the balochs are…if the border had not beeen porous, and paki baloch support and ties had
not been tere, u cud esily have isolated the nationalists out and strnagled their reistance…its the tie-factor with iran and stuff and testing patan loyalty, which makes musharraf and his army queasy abt supressing it out harshly.

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

What are you talking about?? I disagree with you completely. (though you are entitled to your opinion)
Well, the ties and the linkages are not the reason why Pakistani army is hesitating in quelling the unrest in the region. In the 1970's it was the Shah of Iran himself who helped Bhutto in suppressing the nationalist insurgency. ( Now Bhutto was a sindhi,okey before you bring up your bias against the Punjabi army).
Similarly, Iran does not have any interest in inciting the fifth column in Pakistan ( what it did during the 80's was because of a totally different reason: propping up shias against the sunnis) otherwise, my ignorant self doesn't have any information with regard to Iran supporting the Balochis on our side of the border. I do not think any country, be it Iran or India would want to see a destable Pakistan in the region. They can't afford it dear me, there are powerful economic interests that would never let that happen.

For Pakistani army doing another Wana in Balochistan is not a problem. ( i am talking as a neutral observer, am neither supporting nor condemning what happened in wana). And there I believe it was more problematic for the pakistani army to start its operations against foreign militants because of the resentment and criticism all over Pakistan and presence of Pashtuns within the Pakistani army but still they went ahead with it. Now, I believe its just that they are taking time and realistically speaking, any massive operation in that region doesn't augur too well for the country. But such attacks that led to the disruption in the flow of gas to the rest of the country can't be tolerated. There is a limit to that.

(waisay, both parties are at fault, here, sadly!)

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

Is the Musharraf quote for real. He must be crazy or really stressed out to say such a thing. This will only have the reverse effect, Musharraf is losing his diplomatic skills.

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

btw this reminds me of the funniest hijack story I have ever heard, u know the hijacker who wanted the plane to go to india, but it landed in hyderabad instead with fake signs and all ppl pretended to be indian until he got out of the plane and they slapped him silly.

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

Minerva,

Do you even know that the reason the Bugti Baloch are up in arms is because a Pakistan army Captain and his jawans gangraped a lady doctor and then the army tried to cover it up?

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

Please tell the full joke. seems intresting
post it in the jokes section .

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

kaka I have to find it, and its not a joke, real story..if i find it I will bump it up

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

Would you care to back that up with a link from a real publisher!

Much Obliged!

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

http://nation.com.pk/daily/jan-2005/14/columns2.php


The situation in Balochistan is exactly similar to the position prevailing during the last days of East Pakistan. What may have provoked the people of Sui to a greater extent may have been the fact that, as reported, the SP was not allowed to proceed to the scene of the gangrape and further, an FIR was not allowed to be filed. It was with great difficulty that he managed to get the bloodstained clothes and other evidence of the crime. According to reports no one was allowed to meet the lady doctor, who was reportedly whisked away to Karachi.

The authorities ought to realise that it will not do to brush this particular case of gangrape under the carpet. When policemen rape a woman in Punjab, the resentment felt by the people is directed against the police. In contrast, when a female is raped in Balochistan by security personnel, the resentment is directed against Punjab. God knows Punjab has since a long time been in the bad books of the smaller provinces because of both real and imagined wrongs against the latter.


See the Editorial at http://www.thefridaytimes.com


A young lady doctor was gang-raped at Sui recently. At first, the PPL and DSG tried to destroy the evidence and denied the incident. Then the woman was spirited out to Karachi and told to shut up. At no stage was the local police allowed to meet and interrogate her. But when the police turned up sperm and blood evidence of rape at the scene of the crime, the PPL/DSG reluctantly allowed an FIR against “unknown assailants” However, Nawab Bugti insisted that one of the rapists was Captain Hammad of the DSG. But the military flatly rejected the allegation. Indeed, the local and national media was advised not to print Nawab Bugti’s allegations. Outraged, the Bugtis joined ranks and vowed resistance. The local military commanders now want to “sort them out”. But that may be easier said than done. If the Bugtis are not calmed down and military action is precipitated, the gas compression and precipitation plants at Sui could be attacked and destroyed with disastrous consequences.

Also see:

http://www.geo.tv/main_files/pakistan.aspx?id=59394

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_14-1-2005_pg1_3

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_12-1-2005_pg7_57

http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=90261

http://www.dawn.com/2005/01/11/top6.htm

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

Thankyou soo much, this will no doubt reflect on my next analysis as and when it is published!

Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists

Salaam Zakk, I hope this New Year is treating you well (I lost your PM in the GS transition)

Ironically there are more Baluchis outside of the province than inside Baluchistan. Also there are stirrings in the N. Baluchistan, the Pashtun dominated areas for a division of the province. Overall we have dropped the ball on the province. I see Baluchistan as the future of Pakistan in regards to exploited mineral and oil reserves present in the region. Pakistanis have all benefitted from Baluchistan, now it is time to give back. We must smash the conservatism of Sardars, expand educational and health opportunities for the people of Baluchistan. Baluchistan is target number one for development.

Pakistan’s provinces have contributed to the entire nation and all except Baluchistan have benefitted from it. It is shameful to see an entire group of people being neglected. The 70s rebellion was directly caused by the megalomaniac ZAB who dismissed the only truly democratically elected govt of Baluchistan. The 70s was a different time, however the greivances are still justified.

Anyone remember Robert Kaplan of the Atlantic Magazine? Well he was slammed by your truly in a public forum at Yale U regarding the demise of Pakistan, other jokers aren’t even worth responding to.

:jhanda: