What should be done with the people who are there to sabotage every other effort and steps taken by the government towards the development of the country and their (Balochistan) respective areas. Since last year, number of attacks have taken place against the personel belonging to the armed forces, reports of people being killed and property being destroyed as a result of the bomb blasts planted at various points in Balochistan and the killing of Chinese engineers have brought to the fore, deep seated animosity and aversion that prevails amongst the nationalists in Balochistan towards the central government. This doesn’t augur well for the image of the country, particularly in the eyes of the investors and foreigners alike. This was done to create hurdles in the development work and essentially to register their vehement dislike for the establishment of the contonements in Baluchistan.
This blatant disregard for the national interest of the country is indeed condemnable on all counts, particularly the recent rocket attacks on the gas pipelines in sui calls for a tougher action from the central government.
So is there a way out of this problem? Is there any way this issue can be resolved amicably?
Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists
Simple question..does the federal government have any credibility among the average baloch? I don't think so...I often wonder what would be the reaction in Punjab if after every harvest season the last people to get flour was the locals, or if the most expensive place to pick up imported goods was in karachi for karachites...
Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists
Baluchistan rightfully should be an independent nation. Other provinces pay 2 paisa per a 1000 cubic feet for natural gas that Baluchistan only produces. I wonder how would Punjabis feel (in addition to Zakk’s argument) if their wheat is sold for 2 ruppes a ton. Think about it. You can’t suppress nationalists feelings in your own country while crying foul for Kashmir and Palestine.
Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists
Baluchis are only 3% of Pakistan population. They are too weak to demand a separate country. If the Sindhis were not succesfull do you think Baluchis can. Punjabi dominated Pakistani army would crush such separatist tendencies.
Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists
Like they did Bangladeshis? and I think Kashmiris make up less than 1% of Indians… do you think that that will happen? It is not the %age that matters…look at Iraq, only less than 1% of the population (I am talking about insurgants) is causing so much death… Imagine what a few Baluchi suicide bombers can achieve..
Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists
And what are your real motives honey? No one has ever said that truth is sweet. Truth is always bitter. Do you think that Jinnah knew the truth when a country was created by 2000 miles distance between two parts? Hello?? I am talking about East Pakistan which is no longer. Enjoy Baluchistan and Sindh while it lasts. I would say sooner we get it over with the better. So then we can move on to other more pressing issues of the land, like literacy rate, preservation of Islam, finality of prophethood, and healthcare etc.
Don’t you ever tell me not to fly
I will keep flying as long as I have property in Lahore (2 big huge houses in Defense – 8 Kanal each) and a Kinoo Juice factory near Sargodha.
Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists
There is a federal government in Pakistan. Provinces aren't autonomous. Balochs are being discriminated against such because they produce gas which is available on cheaper rates in other parts? Helloo... Karachi, solely, generates approx. 70% of Pakistan's total revenue. Do you think Karachi should get 70% share from the total income? that isn't how things are run. 4 provinces consitute ONE country and it is the benefit of the country that needs to be taken care of (I aint saying we should ignore the province--but just give coutry's interest higher priority.)
Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists
Nobody has proper rights in Pakistan. Same crap goes on in all 4 provinces and ok maybe a little bit more in Baluchistan but its not the fault of Punjabis or any other province for that matter. The problem is our corrupt system that includes everybody not only Punjabis. Everybody in Pakistan is there for their own interests and noone else's. Seperating Baluchistan is not gonna help them or Pakistan. What are they gonna do after seperating from Pakistan? sell the gas to Pakistan and run the country from that revenue? or join Afghanistan?
Yes, they don't have access to a lot of basic rights and freedoms but not many do in Pakistan. The solution is not to seperate from Pakistan but to fight to get your rights back from a corrupt regime (every single one of the Pakistani government falls in this "corrupt regime")
Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists
Prince Charming , well thats the point. I understand that the Baloch masses have been discriminated against but well if you see it from that perspective, people in karachi would say or lets say Sindh would demand that the revenue generated should be distributed within the province then we all know what would happen. There ought to be someway whereby the major chunk of the revene generated remain with the provincial government.
Zakk, I have a fair idea having had Baluch class fellows at the university and I know where you are coming from but somehow I do not think this is the right way to go about things. However, I would still say that the Baluchis have been sandwiched between their tribal leaders and the various governments over the years. They have been exploited by their own people, no doubt but sadly the government hasn't done much to alleviate their suffering or listen to their grievances. I understand that they lean towards their tribal cheifs without realizing that these people have a fair share in keeping them underdeveloped; and take anything that comes from the centre as an effront or an attempt to grab their resources. This attitude has not helped them at all but I would still say that if the people of Baluchistan aren't happy about the establishment of contonement areas and are apprehensive about the development work, then they should be heard if we really subscribe to the provision that we are a federation. I don't think anyone would appreciate the government doing another Wana like act in Baluchistan, without exhausting other options.
Regardless of how much some of us here support the army and have a confidence in it as a reliable institution, we need to take off our red glasses and see things in a positive light.
Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists
Minerva, I went to school with a guy who was from Ivory Coast.. and now I consider myself an expert on Ivory Coast.
Baluchistan has been treated as a stray dog by the rest of Pakistan. It is the largest in area and the richest in natural resources, including copper and gold, yet over 80% of its population lives below poverty (that’s twice the national average for Pakistan – currently at 40%). When people have their own resources to manage, they prosper.
Pakistan is now 50% services, 25% industrial and 25% Agricultural economy, and whomever said Karachi contributing 70% towards our GDP is talking thru his ass.
Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists
MAdhanee, when did I say I am an expert in anything. Well, my interactions with them did colour my arguments though but oh well that was just by the by,( kithay koi gal overlook we kar dita karo)
You are absolutely right but as I said lets not put the blame on one party alone.
At the same time, I do not think all the revenue should just rest with the provincial government. If at all the provinces decide to keep a major portion of what they earn to themselves, they must put away less than a quarter for the central government. ( this would be ideal in our case though)
The present setup isn't favourable becuase whatever goes in the form of revenue into the coffers of government is unfortunately not utilised to a hilt. The money thus generated must be put to an efficient use and that too in the same province if possible.
Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists
Karachi is cool, and sindh will always have its problems, i am pleased that the Northen Area’s have decided they have had enough of secterian conflicts- as per Ministerof Info.
However the Balochi’s should be reminded that they are part of Pakistan and quoting President Musharaff: “Don’t push us. This is not the Seventies,” he said, referring to an insurgency in Balochistan which was put down by the military in the 1970s. “They will not even know what has hit them,”
Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists
Well BB, this news item only made me post this thread ( albiet with a hint of sarcasm) Musharraf was very assertive when he said that and his reaction is understandable becasue seruiously these people are pushing the limits but for a moment if we overlook their excesses, the question arises__ what has the government done so far to mitigate their sufferings and grievances. The Sindhis aren't very happy either with the centre but somehow they have never ( atleast to date) employed such measures.
Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists
obviously you never grew wheat in your life.
Next you will be comparing Saudies working as hard as to produce oil as farmers in Philiphine to produce rice.
Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists
Point taken, this needs some serious thought… Well the answer to the first question is quite complex, firstly it involves the bugti tribes feeling that the government is encroaching on their rightful land, and not paying the adequate ammount to utilise the land for resource extraction facility(s) for Gas.
Secondly, the attacks over the recent years have shown that the miscreants have experience in handling expolsives, as the deployment of the expolsives was under the main pipe and was weighed down with rocks and sand to cause maximum blast yeild. This leads one to question the intent of such individuals, are they making a statement or is this bordering on transgression?!
Thirdly, the government has repeatedly launched aid packages and uplift schemes, this is a two prong attack to improve relations with the locals and the government due to past actions/inactions carried out during the government of Nawaz Shariff and B.Bhutto, and secondly it would assist in improving the local law and order situation thus directly benefiting and improving the overall quality of life for the locals, but the tribal chiefs who both arogant and selfsih will have none of this as they stand to lose out on making huge claims on the government. The Claimants could have filed a cases with International Human Rights Watch as did the MQM and ST, however the have decided to go down this path..
As for question 2, well sindh has quite a distrust however it knows that a strong Punjab is needed for both strategic and economic reasons, however the trend of inward operations is slowly coming to a halt and we can see programs such as the recent E-Governance strategies implemented by the Chancellor of Preston University in Islamabad for rural areas coming into effect, this would provide rural communities espically mothers to learn how to use computers, in turn they could teach their children.
Pakistan is looking into a wide range of E-Governance applications and is following a similar approach used by Jamica.
Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists
A simple question please. Since Pakistan and ees are so lovey dovey with Islam. What do the Baluchis comprise of; are they shias? if so has anyone looked in to the intentions of Iran? I am not well versed on Baluchistan besides Sui-gas.
BTW dont mean to derail the subject but a civil engineer from CDA went to UK on training and told his instructors that pakistan didn't have natural gas they had sui-gas. :Salute:
Re: Enough is enough: The excesses of Baloch nationalists
OKeeey. The question was to find out if the majority of balochis were shiites or sunnis? If they were shiites then since baluchistan borders iran and iran being a shiite state I wanted to know if someone had looked at the intentions of iran. Maybe they were fingering in to cause internal rift.
This all depends on the composition of baluchis. Thats all I was referring to.
