England-South Africa Test Series

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Anyone watching it? 5-Test series is gonna kicks off tomorrow - Guest team South Africa hasn’t annouced their team yet but it is confirmed Kallis would missed 1st Test because he had to go back to see his ill father(My prayers for Kallis’s father).

The English team selection looks weak.

**England squad: N Hussain (capt), ME Trescothick, MP Vaughan, MA Butcher, A McGrath, AJ Stewart (wkt), A Flintoff, AF Giles, D Gough, RJ Kirtley, JM Anderson, SJ Harmison. **

Actually, to be precise, the selection Stinks BIG TIME. Firstly why on earth have England chosen James Kirtly ahead of Kabir Ali? OK granted Richard Johnson would have probably been chosen ahead of them but the selectors have to face facts - Johnson doesn’t have an International career in him because he’s already 30 and no successful quick bowler has ever had a career of any sort playing for England debuting at such an age and secondly because his fitness will pretty much never be good enough - Harsh I know its true. Now the rest of the selection well I think the batting is just about right though I would have put Graham Thorpe in instead of Anthony McGrath. Why on earth have England fielded 2 All-rounders in their Test Side? And that’s having gone with the 5 Specialist bowlers of Darren Gough, Ashley Giles, Steven Harmison, James Kirtly and James Anderson. And of course to top it all of they have Butcher who can bowl his Medium Pacers and take the pace of the ball and Michael Vaghan of course who can bowl his off-spin - the only 3 players who don’t bowl in that side are the captain, the opener (Trescothick) and the Wicket Keeper! Most One-Day sides generally don’t have so many damn all-rounders - Its ridiculous! - If they had only gone with the 4 bowlers then, yeah possibly, the 2 All Rounders would have been justified but even still it would be a bit much - and that’s excluding the 2 Part-timers at the top! This is becoming a bit like the Indian One-Day side - Sachin Tendulkar, Sehwag, Ganguly, Kaif, Yuvrag, Harbajan Singh, Zaheer Khan, Javagal Srinath, Ashish Nehra and Anil Kumble can all ball and the England side is becoming more and more like the Indian side by the minute - Its totally and utterly ridiculous! Anyway, we’ll have to wait and see how it turns out and whether it costs them or not .

**Test Series Schedule.

1st Test: 24 - 28 July: Edgbaston

2nd Test: 31 July - 4 Aug: Lord’s

3rd Test: 14 - 18 Aug: Trent Bridge

4th Test: 21 - 25 Aug: Headingley

5th Test: 4 - 8 Sept: 5th Test, The Oval **

:smokin2:

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Re: England-South Africa Test Series

Talha bhai, your analysis is very good ad i instantly agree with some points but Please type seprate points in separate lines for the sake of readibility.

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**updates and corrections, 1) jacques kallis’s father has died, the funeral will be arranged soon and its hoped that he’ll be available for the second test on july 31st.

  1. richard johnson isn’t 30 , he is 28 years old, he hasn’t been chosen for the first test becoz of his on-going knee problems which have bothered him in the past.

  2. i agree graham thorpe should’ve been chosen as he has made a flying start to this season with decent knocks in all games he has participated in but still england keep faith with yorkshire captain ant’ mcgrath who has earned his place on merit as he perfomed well against zimbabwe.

  3. i am angered :mad: at the fact that kabir ali isn’t being picked the guy has huge potential he recently took the best bowling figures by a bowler in the 1st innings this year of 8 for 58 i believe surpassing mohammed sami’s 8/64 for kent that 2 on the day his 2 year old nephew died. :frowning: kano inalila he wa ina alehai rajioon**

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Re: 3- Thorpe's seclection.

I would have been more than satisfied to have seen Thrope included in most World XI type test batting lineups, let alone just England's. But in his prime.

The only reason I'd pick him for the current series (and a couple more) is so that the younger bats can revolve and foster their game around him and his experience in the middle order. He's not that old (mid-30's), but his chances of doing a Steve Waugh or Imran bhai type stunt and elongating his career are slim. Let the younger promising ones develop their game and move ahead.

The above might sound as if he's being used. But I believe as important as individual careers are, they come second to the betterment of the natinal team's cricketing interests.

5

Firstly I just want to say how sorry I am to hear about Kallis’s loss and that my thoughts are with him (Jaques) and his family - I know him and his father were very close and I wish him all the strength to get through this very tough time.

I don’t think anyone would blame him if he did indeed decide not to take part in this series - He will need time to recover from this loss and grieve, he is a tough person but such things need time to heal.

Though I think a small conselation if you can call it that at all was that he did spend his dying days with his father and he was at his side - and he did get the chance to say goodbye, as I said above my thoughts are with him and his family.

saby: Sorry - You had trouble reading my views - I apologized but you got the point, anyway… Good :stuck_out_tongue:

#let uz chat#: Genuis, Yeah I knew he was about 28 or so actually, though I said 30 odd as I just rounded it up - And I wasn’t 100% sure! Richard Johnson will spend two years facing injury problems - Sad to say his career seems to be over before it kicks off…

Anyway, it’s good to have Ashely Giles back!

Diablo Kazama: Good points there…I think Thrope’s England career may now be over - or has Alec Stewart’s announcement to retire given him a lifeline? I do agree about the other guys learning from him - It’s not really like they’ll be using him as he will be regaining his international status - though I think he may now have to rely on a another player’s loss of form or an injury to now get back into the side - I think his international comeback hopes are now all but over. Sad as it is to say…but on the plus side for England this is the sort of competition they will be looking for - They just couldn’t find 11 players to field through the Winter in Australia and in the World Cup but now everyone seems to be having to fight for their place - including the most experienced players which is good to see again in English Cricket though I think Graham has now left it too late.

:smokin2:

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**Kallis’s father loses fight against cancer **

JOHANNESBURG, July 23: The father of 27-year-old all-rounder Jacques Kallis died on Wednesday, the United Cricket Board of South Africa said. The cricketer returned to Cape Town from England after the triangular one-day series to be with his 65-year-old father Henry , who had been diagnosed in March with lung cancer.

His absence leaves a huge hole in the South African line-up for the first Test against England.

**“This is a terribly sad and difficult time for both Jacques and Janine, who have suffered along with their father for some time,” said UCB chief Gerald Majola.

“Jacques has always named his dad as his biggest influence and mentor and Henry gave his everything to support both his children. Our thoughts are with them.”
**
South Africa’s team management has said Kallis could rejoin the team in England when he felt ready.

England captain Nasser Hussain, speaking at Edgbaston on Wednesday, said: “Our commiserations go to him and his family. Some things are more important than cricket.”

Depending on the date of the funeral, Kallis could play in the second Test of the five-match series which starts at Lord’s on Thursday, July 31.-AFP

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**Smith seeks inspiration for series opener **

BIRMINGHAM, July 23: South Africa captain Graeme Smith said the death of Jacques Kallis’s father would give the team an added incentive to win the first Test against England at Edgbaston here on Thursday.

Kallis, 27, had been with his father since South Africa’s triangular one-day series final defeat against England on July 12.

**“It’s obviously not great what’s happened to Jacques,” Smith told reporters on Wednesday. “But it might give us something extra and help put a smile back on Jacques’s face if we win.” **

Smith said Kallis, South Africa’s star performer in the triangular series where he scored 329 runs at an average of 109, was under no pressure to return.

**“We’ll give him free rein. When he feels ready will gladly take him back.” South Africa coach Eric Simons added: “It’s a blow to lose a player of Jacques Kallis’s quality. He adds balance to the team.” **

Smith, at 22 South Africa’s youngest ever captain, said weekend reports in the British press of a rift between him and predecessor Shaun Pollock were “total rubbish”.

He added: "I told Polly when I got hit in the face at Arundel (where South Africa had their final warm-up match against India ‘A’) that I’d tell the press we had a rumble.

“It’s absolute rubbish,” added Smith. “It’s first Test propaganda.” Far from feeling under pressure himself, Smith said the burden of expectation would be on England captain Nasser Hussain who is returning to the leadership after retiring from One-day Internationals following the World Cup.

“Nasser wouldn’t be human if he wasn’t feeling some pressure from Michael Vaughan (England’s one-day captain) and the press about the two captains issue.”

Hussain said on Wednesday that South Africa were struggling to adjust to English conditions, citing out-of-form opening batsman Herschelle Gibbs as a particular example.

“It’s important Herschelle gets in the right place mentally,” said Simons, who added that the return of Gary Kirsten, like Hussain now a Test-match player only, to the batting line-up would help Gibbs.

“It was good to see him (Gibbs) get runs at Arundel (the Western Province right-hander made 79) and to see his feet moving.”

Smith refused to comment on the make-up of his side but insisted his inexperienced bowling attack would not be at a disadvantage.

“If you look at England, in many ways they are in the same boat.” South Africa have won only two of their 13 Test series in England - in 1935 and 1965 - but Smith said current form would be more important than cricket history.

“We’ve won nine Tests in a row (althugh four of those were against Bangladesh) and hopefully we can carry on our Test record and remain the number two side in the world at the end of the series.”

Teams (from):

England: Nasser Hussain (captain), Marcus Trescothick, Michael Vaughan, Mark Butcher, Anthony McGrath, Alec Stewart, Andrew Flintoff, Ashley Giles, Darren Gough, James Anderson, Steve Harmison, James Kirtley.

South Africa: Graeme Smith (captain), Herschelle Gibbs, Gary Kirsten, Neil McKenzie, Jacques Rudolph, Boeta Dippenaar, Mark Boucher, Shaun Pollock, Robin Peterson, Makhaya Ntini, Charl Willoughby, Dewald Pretorious, Paul Adams, Monde Zondeki.-AFP

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South Africa 309/0 (65.5 ov)
England 

South Africa RR: 4.69

Minimum overs
remaining today: 24.1  

Batsmen: R B 4s 6s S/R   
HH Gibbs (RHB) **166** 208 28 1 79.81  Striker 
GC Smith (LHB) **128** 190 20 0 67.37  Non-striker 


Bowlers: O M R W Econ    
AF Giles (SLA) 10.5 1 45 0 4.15  (0nb, 0w) City End 
SJ Harmison (RF) 16 2 65 0 4.06  (0nb, 0w) Pavilion End

:~)

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latest score day= 1





South Africa in England, 2003, 1st Test
England v South Africa
Edgbaston, Birmingham
24,25,26,27,28 July 2003 (5-day match)

Result:
Series:

Toss: South Africa
Umpires: DJ Harper (Aus) and S Venkataraghavan (Ind)
TV Umpire: JW Lloyds
Match Referee: RS Madugalle (SL)
Man of the Match:

Close of Play: 

Day 1: 
Day 2: 
Day 3: 
Day 4:
South Africa 1st innings                                        R   B   4  6
*GC Smith             not out                                 139 208  21  0
HH Gibbs              not out                                 173 220  28  1
Extras                (b 4, lb 8, nb 3)                        15
Total                 (0 wickets, 70.5 overs)                 327

To Bat: G Kirsten, JA Rudolph, HH Dippenaar, +MV Boucher,
        SM Pollock, RJ Peterson, D Pretorius, M Ntini,
        CM Willoughby.

Bowling                      O      M      R      W
Anderson                    10      1     62      0 (1nb)
Gough                       13      4     58      0 (1nb)
Flintoff                    14      4     52      0 (1nb)
Harmison                    16      2     65      0
Giles                       13      1     49      0
Butcher                      2      0     15      0
Vaughan                      2.5    0     14      0
10

South Africa finished the first day at 398/1

Smith not out 178
Gibbs out 179
Kirsten not out 26

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HAHHAAHHA...what a whooping on the first day!....go SA go!

12

Great effor by South African batsmen. Not only both openers scored centuries but they scored at 4.37 runs per over. Thats not even too bad for ODI's. I think they have vitually kicked England out of this match. Now the result could only be either a draw or a South African victory.




South Africa 1st innings                                        R   M   B  4 6
*GC Smith             not out                                 178 364 257 25 0
HH Gibbs              c Butcher          b Vaughan            179 305 236 29 1
G Kirsten             not out                                  26  58  56  3 0
Extras                (b 4, lb 8, nb 3)                        15
Total                 (1 wicket, 91 overs, 364 mins)          398

To Bat: JA Rudolph, HH Dippenaar, +MV Boucher, SM Pollock,
        RJ Peterson, D Pretorius, M Ntini, CM Willoughby.

FoW: 1-338 (Gibbs, 74.5 ov).

Bowling                      O      M      R      W
Anderson                    13      1     78      0 (1nb)
Gough                       14      4     64      0 (1nb)
Flintoff                    16      4     67      0 (1nb)
Harmison                    18      2     69      0
Giles                       20      1     67      0
Butcher                      2      0     15      0
Vaughan                      8      0     26      1
13

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by LahoriMunda: *
Great effor by South African batsmen. Not only both openers scored centuries but they scored at 4.37 runs per over. Thats not even too bad for ODI's. I think they have vitually kicked England out of this match. Now the result could only be either a draw or a South African victory.




South Africa 1st innings                                        R   M   B  4 6
*GC Smith             not out                                 178 364 257 25 0
HH Gibbs              c Butcher          b Vaughan            179 305 236 29 1
G Kirsten             not out                                  26  58  56  3 0
Extras                (b 4, lb 8, nb 3)                        15
Total                 (1 wicket, 91 overs, 364 mins)          398

To Bat: JA Rudolph, HH Dippenaar, +MV Boucher, SM Pollock,
        RJ Peterson, D Pretorius, M Ntini, CM Willoughby.

FoW: 1-338 (Gibbs, 74.5 ov).

Bowling                      O      M      R      W
Anderson                    13      1     78      0 (1nb)
Gough                       14      4     64      0 (1nb)
Flintoff                    16      4     67      0 (1nb)
Harmison                    18      2     69      0
Giles                       20      1     67      0
Butcher                      2      0     15      0
Vaughan                      8      0     26      1

[/QUOTE]

Well i hope they'll declare at 600 odd runs after overs or so and then have a go at Eng batting which is suffering a bit (Tresco broken finger, Vaughan not in the bset of form + test newbie McGrath will face 1st time a real pace attack) ..... i think SA may finish off Eng around end of day four and if needed to bat for victory ..... i guess not often a side has gone on to save a test by batting 3 days + 1 session

go SA go and good luck Eng u'll need it

14

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zero_one: *

test newbie McGrath will face 1st time** a real pace attack)**

[/QUOTE]

I think SA's attack is at its worst since Ages.... Pollock is more like pace opf mark butcher, Kallis is out of the picture. Only credible performer is Ntini. Zondeki is another new biew who will out to prove himself. Thier bowling attack is really weak and though i dont expect Eng to save the match after a huge score, i wont put my money on SA ... Yet!!

15

I agree with Saby. Here’s an interesting article I found regarding this matter.

**Where have all the bowlers gone? **

Neil Manthorp - July 24, 2003

Neil Manthorp highlights the problems facing South Africa’s selectors as they search for the next generation of fast bowlers

One of South African cricket’s proudest traditions goes on trial at Edgbaston and there are more than a few doubters who believe Graeme Smith’s team lack the ability to maintain it.

Whatever the results over the years, South Africa have always had fast bowlers who made life uncomfortable for opposition batsmen and made them work hard, mentally and physically, for their runs. Is that now the case? Many ask the question and, increasingly since the team arrived in England, many say not.

South African cricket was never always strong, despite the last seven or eight years when it has presented the best - and perhaps only - viable challenge to Australia’s dominance. But the one constant in the last 40 years has been the depth of fast bowling talent in the country. Now that appears to have diminished.

**As far back as 1997 Makhaya Ntini was heralded as the ‘new Allan Donald’, and he may still be getting there. But Donald enjoyed the best back-up support in the world in those days, and now the new captain, Smith, looks in vain for a man to add his own fire to the pace and hostility of Ntini. **

During isolation from the world game the country’s domestic game was scattered with world-class pacemen good enough to have graced any international line-up, a possibility that some considered during the 21-year isolation from international competition between 1970 and 1991.

**Even before the ‘rebel’ years in which quicks like Garth Le Roux, Vintcent van der Bijl, Mike Procter and Clive Rice graced the English county scene with unqualified success, the SA tradition of match-winning fast bowlers had been carried into the 1950s by Peter Heine and the 1960s by Peter Pollock. **

By the time of readmission to the international stage, **South Africa had a wealth of fast bowling talent at their disposal and, led by a rampant Allan Donald, bowled rather than batted their way to the World Cup semi finals in 1992. Meyrick Pringle, Richard Snell, Brian McMillan and the late Tertius Bosch were Donald’s lieutenants in those days and they were quickly followed by Craig Matthews, Fanie de Villiers and Brett Schultz. Heck, fast bowlers were so thick on the ground as the 1990s came to an end that even the side’s best batsman, Jacques Kallis, could bowl at 145 kilometres an hour. **

But now Kallis is at home in Cape Town and that is just the beginning of the problems. Whisper it, Englishmen, because he may yet haunt you, but **Shaun Pollock’s lack of pace means batsmen can play him on the front foot and his wicket taking deliveries can be largely left alone. It may still be devilishly difficult to score off him, but survival is far less of a challenge than it was. **

**Ntini is now Smith’s banker - loyal, fast, aggressive, fit and willing to bowl 30 overs a day, even more. It isn’t even worth thinking about what might happen to South Africa’s attack should he break down or have a bad day, or two. Pollock and Ntini cannot, of course, bowl all day. So what happens then? **

Two out of three pacemen, with a collection of two Test caps between them, will provide the back-up. **Charl Willoughby is a left-armer who can swing the ball, at no great pace, but bagfuls of wickets for Basingstoke in the English leagues ought not leave Marcus Trescothik and Michael Vaughan quaking in their boots. He has one cap, against Bangladesh in Chittagong, to his credit. He took one wicket.

Dewald Pretorius also has one Test cap, earned against Australia 18 months ago when he was belted all over Newlands in Cape Town. He is a big-hearted trier who also has one Test wicket.

And finally there is Monde Zondeki, who has neither a wicket nor even a cap. But he has got pace, and plenty of it. The trouble for South Africa’s selectors is that he has also just recently recovered from a serious shoulder injury, albeit his non-bowling shoulder, sustained in a car accident shortly after SA’s ignominious exit from the World Cup in March this year. He has played just 14 first-class matches and claimed one five-wicket haul, against Somerset last week. **

Omar Henry, South Africa’s national selection convenor, hasn’t got much to choose from. “Any one of these guys could make a name for himself in England. They might grab their chance with both hands and establish themselves straight away. They all have the potential, that’s why we picked them,” Henry said before joining the squad two weeks ago. But his confidence was countered by his admission that he was, well, ‘on a mission’.

**“There is a fast bowler out there, somewhere in South Africa, who will make us all proud by winning matches and taking over Allan’s crown,” Henry said. “He might even be in the squad at the moment, but if he isn’t then I will find him. I will not rest until I find him. We have a proud tradition of fast bowlers and we will live up to it.” **

That may be so, but the ‘here and now’ reality of South Africa’s tour is that the word ‘popgun’, never applied to a South African attack since readmission in 1991, may be closer to making its debut than ever before.

© Wisden CricInfo Ltd

16

398/1 :eek: :eek: Keep up the good work SA!

17

A good time ass whoppin' in the making.
Man whatever happend to the over rated Gough.
South Africa completely crused England.
This is the 2nd time these 2 have put out 300+ opening partnership, the last one was against Pakistan in 2nd test.

18

O Boy what a A$$ kicking knock from both opners, Nasir you bring badluck to the poor pomies come on man quit it.

Sadi Sobi u hiding behind a coutch or u plan on changing ur nationality? :)

19

what time ET is the match gonna resume cuz I need to watch it on my dish!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I got it

20

:smack:

Woah! Damn I was so glad that I thought England could win the series 5-0 - I mean they certainly played very well yesterday! My damn ass! England were woeful and deserved the ass whooping they got! The bowlers just didn’t perform on the day - and as I said earlier, the team selection sucks! What’s the point of including McGrath as an all-rounder if he doesn’t bowl when his side is in trouble? - What would be the point of picking him? It’s not like they need the extra batsman - though with Marcus Trescothic having injured his finger they may have to rely on him.

But take nothing away from South Africa - they batted well - and they deserve to be in the situation they are in now. Gibbs kind of threw his wicket away - but that was having scored 175+ speaking of which…

The following records all tumbles yesterday:

  1. A new highest opening stand against England was set - by any country - I don’t think Mark Taylor would have thought his record was gonna be broken but oh well - these two managed it!

  2. The highest ever score by a South African against England ever - Gibbs takes credit for that one though Graeme Smith is just one run behind so his will probably break that record and take the honours assuming he doesn’t get out before scoring a run!

And loads of small other ones though I can’t be assed to go on!

As much as I hate to say it Graeme Smith did very well yesterday - He has got talent and if he used it to good effect rather than slagging of other players and winding people up within his own side then he could be helpful to South Africa rather than a hinderence! As hard as it to believe Graeme Smith is just 22 runs away from getting to his second double ton in Test Cricket and yet this is only his 11th Test! If he manages it then already he will have scored more Double Tons than the likes of Steven Waugh, Clive Lloyd, Adam Gilchrist, Matthew Hayden, Stephen Flemming etc etc…in just 11 Tests!

This will be interesting to see how this match unfolds - and especially to see how the weather affects the game and to see whether England go for the win or whether they just try and bat out the game.

:smokin2: