I think engineering is one of the more over-rated carrers/majors out there. Whenever desi ppl talk, it’s like “engineers and doctors” or “doctors and engineers” as if the two go hand in hand. However, the two fields are not comparable at all in terms of earning potential, job market condition, prestige, etc, etc.
Here’s my list of pros and cons after some time in both school and in the field.
Pros:
None
Cons:
You WILL go bald. (No, I’m not bald but I’m very concerned since my hair is my most prized possession. yes, I’m superficial, bite me.)
After learning half the stuff under the damn skies, you compete for jobs with community college diploma holders.
Most importantly, you go bald (In case, I missed earlier). If you’re a girl, I’m confident you must lost something from a physical health point of view - I’m just not sure what since I don’t know too many female engineers.
If all you want is a job, then engineering might be for you 'cause it will give you a semi-respectable degree and a job (depending on how much of career potential and salary you’re willing to give). But if a job is all you want, why not go to a community college, finish faster, enter the job market earlier and have a leg up on the poor engineer.
**Note: If you’re an engineer and you’re offended by this, I apologize. Also, please post your take to make for a healthy discussion (not that that was my intention). **
In terms of earning potential indeed engineers get to earn the lowest of wages (slightly above teachers and computer science does not count as engineering). Indeed its a painful journey with little in terms of postive results (at least in the US/Western economies).
Heres my list:
Pros:
1) Tends to be a rather sedate steady job once you get it
2) The government still employs a fair bit of engineers even if they are mostly for regulatory puposes.
3) Most engineers are logical, rational thinking people who know how to use the internet and can follow DIY instructions (unlike most doctors).
4) You will be amongst other engineers most time of your career
5) Unless you are into shody construction jobs, there are very limited malpractice issues.
Cons:
1) Low pay - starting salarys vary between 30-60K after a BEng/MEng
2) You will always be known as a nerdy and most likely then not lack most social/people skills
3) If you may be working out in the field 5 days of the week.
4) Low pay raises and little hope of moving into management.
5) Some business person who has little idea of what you do or what the company does will most likely be managing the company and communication can often be an issue (engineersspeak and businessspeak are like mandarin and arabic)
hmcq, I posted most of the points you mentioned (only I listed them as cons) but I had to retype my post so I missed out some stuff I put in originally.
My bro is about to finish high schools soon and I'm trying to dissuade him from pursuing anything technical. I'm trying to get him to go into business/finance/econ.
Among my classmates, only one ventured out of the CS/engineering/medicine monopoly and went into finance instead. Now ever since he's landed a job in investment banking, his choice seems to make a lot more sense.
yaar i agree with u on alot of points... u will definitely lose some amount of hair, and it'll either grow back or u'll go bald... i never lost any hair but alot of ppl i know lost it cause of the stress and amount of work... i agree, the pay is goona be junk when u start out and u have to go into the field at some point, or at all points depending on ur major... but nonetheless, i think to become an engineer u have to be exceptionally intelligent and we dont get the recognition that other professionals get like doctors and lawyers... most ppl dont even know the contributions that engineers make to society... i dont think u can goto community college and get a leg up gimme a break man, technicians will always be working under engineers, u can maybe even make more money if u do that, but u'll constantly be on the receiving end of jokes and taunts from engineers int the workplace, ive seen it happend.....and yah, everyone will think ur a nerd and what not... but who cares they probably couldnt even last a day if they tried
LOL sambrialian stop being such a traitor and washing our dirty laundry in public will ya
Well, I am an engineering major and with all due respect I beg to strongly differ.
I would have been a doctor if I hadn’t been an engineer [yeah how typically desi :Pretty:]. I love bio and sometimes regret not doing medicine, but I can totally see the benefits of an engineering degree and I am a damn proud engineer
Enginering:
It trains you to think in an organised, logical, quantitative manner.
It trains you to work hard.
It is a solid, respectable degree.
It actually teaches you some skills which you can’t learn anywhere but in school. Stuff taught at business school is basically just common sense stuff which you don’t really need to be in school to learn.
An engineer can do a business job any day but a business major can’t do an engineering job. An engineering degree at the undergrad level will keep more options for the future open for a student as compared to a business degree. After an engineering degree, except law or medicine etc you can pretty much do anything with your life.
And I don’t think you have to go bald * nor do you have to compromise your physical appearance in any way
Those non-engineering majors who call us nerds etc are just jealous. Trust me. In undergrad it usually used to be like, people used to try taking engineering classes first, fail miserably, give up, then go towards business and humanities, and then like a classic case of sour grapes start dissing engineering
As for stuff like earning potential, career path in life, success etc...that doesn't depend on your degree in college. It depends on pesonal motivation, ambition, luck and that kind of stuff.
And about the college choice, there's a lot more that college has to offer than an academic degree and should be chosen in light of that as well.
p.s. If I was you I'd encourage my younger brother to do engineering rather than a no-substance business degree.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by irem: *
p.s. If I was you I'd encourage my younger brother to do engineering rather than a no-substance business degree.
[/QUOTE]
** Excuse me!!?? ** There’s no such thing as a “No substance” education! In fact, a business degree bridges a huge gap by allowing an individual to overcome the barriers that exist between university and industrial cultures. I can say that from personal experience… there’s an immense contrast in my personality from what I was when I only had a technical education background in computer science (undergraduate degree) to what I am today with a business degree (M.B.A.). I see it as a complement to my earlier endeavours.
I can guarantee you that an Engineer CANNOT write a sound business plan for a new venture (perhaps except talking about product features!) or perform a Market Risk Analysis or implement a New Product Strategy from product launch to achieving competitive advantage. Engineers on their own have very little clue to what a robust business model is all about, and if you consider the Microsoft’s and GE’s of the world, it all boils down to their business models.
Engineers drive innovation and technology development, but it is the marketing, finance, operations and HR professionals (business majors!) that make companies realize the potential behind those innovations.
I’m sorry to say Irem, but your university education has failed to give you an inclusive appreciation of an economy’s underlying machinery, and moreover it hasn’t taught you to respect other professions.
In the end it all boils down to what u have an aptitude for,so a person doing a business degree is not neccessarily unintelligent.I’m doing a business degree myself,it’s because I want to and tht’s wht interests me.No point in doing something u detest.
Irem,
Strictly speaking, Computer Science including the realm of “Software Engineering” is NOT an Engineering but a Mathematical Sciences discipline.
The difference is in the emphasis - whereas Engineering is the effective application of technology, both hardware and software, to solve practical problems, Computer Science deals with the design of efficient algorithms and data structures.
Also engineers are usually eligible to apply for the legally-defined designation of Professional Engineer (P.Eng.) after a few years of work experience, and they are legally bound by the regulations of an engineering association and a formally defined Code of Ethics.
Also, Not All Programmers are Software Engineers!
Sambrialian,
In the end, my recommendation would be to try and pursue an area that your brother is truely interested in! it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things... trust me when I say that he'll find his niche once he steps into the real world. Often this tends to be a major shift from what you've done at university. Your university education gives you an edge over anyone else, and that includes community college majors by providing a unique thought perpective and a more vigorous work ethic. If I see a University graduate and a Community College graduate, I can tell the difference right away. The personality traits say it all!
For a business to work one of a couple of things need to be there
1) the product is just out of the world and the business side just so so but enough to make the business start off (then everyone learns on the job as the business develops)
2) Business model is great but the product is just so so and the people change or imporve the product and it works
3)Both business model and product are just ok and hence it just works
Both business and product cant be mediocore to work. For the IS people who were not into business but went into it almost always started off with a great product and learnt the business side.
CS is more of an applied science then applied engineering (its closer to mathematics and physics then it is it electrical or mechanical engineering).
As for what career path a person should chose, it all depends on what they like, how the economys developing, what their goals are and what the future trends are. In the 40-80s civil engineering was the hot field cause all the developed countries were growing infrastructurally (big dams/citys etc). 90s was the years of the environmental engineers in the US at least. Then came the transistor and eletrical engineers and now the IT sector and possible healthcare in the near future. However for docs the demand has been steady for most of the last century and is likely to remain so. People always need docs.
DS,
For some reason, I too have seen a lot of ppl confused about Comp Sci – but they shouldn’t be if they’ve come out of the program themselves. I opted for Comp Sci cuz my Univ. was well known for it, it was a competitive program at the time, and I loved pure math and wanted to stay away from mechanics… so this was the perfect option.
As for techies writing business plans, you may be right – there may be a selected gifted few who can accomplish the feat – but from experience, I can tell you that generally they can’t write ”sound” business plans. I’ve been involved in venture capital meetings and typically the response that techies get is that their ideas are good – they just need to work on it further to develop a viable business model.
Hmcq,
For sure, one of the two things needs to be high on the scale in order for the business to flourish… and that s exactly why the synergy between technical and business minds can result in the best in class.
I know a few engineers involved in product development at companies liek motorola, sony, Daimler-Chrysler, who not only make a good living, but love their work, are fun people and are involved in some exciting areas of work.
The question here is, does engineering make a person a certain way, or does the profession and field of study generally attract a certain type of person?
I think that if you yourself are a person who is sociable, a broad perspective etc, and go for engineering, you could be an asset.
Engineers are a critical, under rated peg in our system, if smart people did not go into engineering, forget about all the nifty new products that you see, cars that you drive, buildings that you work in etc.
I could not be an engineer because i am allergic to calculus etc, but in my view engineers rock.
P.S. if there was a doctor here, he/she may tell you that hairloss is genetic, rest is all bull. so go to your engineering institutions if that is what motivates you, help develop new products..make an impact on this world, was it not for you guys we would nto have cellphones, flat screen TVs, traction control, central heating...
today I give a big thank you to all engineers from mankind.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by original desi: *
u can maybe even make more money if u do that, but u'll constantly be on the receiving end of jokes and taunts from engineers int the workplace, ive seen it happend
[/QUOTE]
I agree with pretty much everything you say except that having the right to mock a technician who works under you (and might be making more than you as you said) is simply not enough of a reward for all the work engineers do in school, IMO.
Also, I suppose in traditional engineering fields such as electrical, civil, etc you would have technicians under you but I'm in Comp eng and we don't have any technicians under us. So, I don't get make fun of anyone and I want to. :(
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by irem: *
LOL sambrialian stop being such a traitor and washing our dirty laundry in public will ya
Well, I am an engineering major and with all due respect I beg to strongly differ.
I would have been a doctor if I hadn't been an engineer [yeah how typically desi ]. I love bio and sometimes regret not doing medicine, but I can totally see the benefits of an engineering degree and I am a damn proud engineer
Enginering:
It trains you to think in an organised, logical, quantitative manner.
It trains you to work hard.
It is a solid, respectable degree.
It actually teaches you some skills which you can't learn anywhere but in school. Stuff taught at business school is basically just common sense stuff which you don't really need to be in school to learn.
An engineer can do a business job any day but a business major can't do an engineering job. An engineering degree at the undergrad level will keep more options for the future open for a student as compared to a business degree. After an engineering degree, except law or medicine etc you can pretty much do anything with your life.
And I don't think you have to go bald * nor do you have to compromise your physical appearance in any way
Those non-engineering majors who call us nerds etc are just jealous. Trust me. In undergrad it usually used to be like, people used to try taking engineering classes first, fail miserably, give up, then go towards business and humanities, and then like a classic case of sour grapes start dissing engineering
Engineers Rock
[/QUOTE]
Irem, I know all the upsides to engineering. My only point is that market conditions suck for engineers as compared to other professionals say a doc or a lawyer. Can you imagine a middle-of-the-class doc or lawyer actually struggling to land a decent job? I don't think so. Engineers can and do struggle. I know people from my school who've been struggling and our school has a pretty decent image.
all in all, me thinks we engineers don't get as much respect as we deserve comapred to the amount and effort we have to put in to get the iron ring. I swear the day I go bald, I will wreak havoc on any engineering prof who's had the good fortune of teaching me.*
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Umar Talib: *
**Sambrialian,*
In the end, my recommendation would be to try and pursue an area that your brother is truely interested in! it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things... trust me when I say that he'll find his niche once he steps into the real world. Often this tends to be a major shift from what you've done at university. Your university education gives you an edge over anyone else, and that includes community college majors by providing a unique thought perpective and a more vigorous work ethic. If I see a University graduate and a Community College graduate, I can tell the difference right away. The personality traits say it all!
[/QUOTE]
You're quite right. I will advise him to just pursue whatever he wants to do for the rest of his life. But I do think it is important to realize the realities of the field you're entering and I think I might have missed out on that as did apparently half my class.
Also, I think a bit overboard with the community college example. I was referring specifically to comp engineering when I said that. I don't know for sure 'cause I never researched it but I've been hearing for a long time that Devry grads make substantially more money than we engineers do. And I don't think anybody in Canada needs to be told which program is more intellectually challenging and likely to produce better grads.
If I can find them, I will find some links to a survey done in our class. The results of the survey were shocking and the survey actually caused quite a ruckus in our department. Even more interesting were the feedback comments of an anonymous prof who said some of the same things I'm saying here.
Thanks for replying and I will keep your advice in mind.
you are right about job security issues, but the same issue has been face dby ppl in comp sci and ppl with business backgrounds as well. the job security is not the same as engineers. As far as lawyers go, things are not quite as great as ppl think, there are plenty of lawyers out there who are doing just okay.
as far as respect goes.. i think society looks at earning power as a token of respect, because many other people, like our teachers/professors dont get the respect the truly deserve either.
*
CS is very much an engineering discipline and programmers are software engineers