Egypt bans salafi books by Uthaymeen, Bin Baaz, Albani from mosques.
What do you guys think of this?
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
Finally. Good on them. Now try to ban the Muslim Brotherhood and their influence from Hitler and fascism.
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
AsSalaamo Alaikum,
I think it's an extreme step.
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
AsSalaamo Alaikum,
I think it's an extreme step.
Wa'alaykumusSalam
.... Brother what step would not be extreme yet still serve the purpose of demoting their material? Afterall it is their press that has given them all that modern coverage and grasp of younger minds by giving the illusion of it being the dominant opinion. Surely dealing with the publications rather than physically silencing people is not so extreme?
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
Finally. Good on them. Now try to ban the Muslim Brotherhood and their influence from Hitler and fascism.
They've already banned the ikhwan ... Effectiveness is another matter. Same with the Salafi material ... It may be not be effective, but at least new generations will grow up knowing that these are not default places to go to seek ones faith.
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
Wa'alaykumusSalam
.... Brother what step would not be extreme yet still serve the purpose of demoting their material? Afterall it is their press that has given them all that modern coverage and grasp of younger minds by giving the illusion of it being the dominant opinion. Surely dealing with the publications rather than physically silencing people is not so extreme?
Firstly, because it may not be effective. People who want to seek out whatever sort of material, will still find another way. Secondly, What we lack are our counter efforts to re-educate people on what is, and is not right. Just removing material (seen as a shortcut, band-aid on a gaping wound sort of approach) may not be effective as you've already mentioned in the post above this one.
We always try to seek the shortcut, just to be done with the issue at-hand, at least for the moment and then let the next man in-charge deal with it on his watch. That's not a permanent fix. There should be a consistent policy in place, because the psyche takes time to develop, or undevelop for that matter. It should be a continued effort throughout regardless of which administration takes charge, the efforts made now may yield results in coming generation of youth, or sooner if Allah wills.
But yes you are right, removal of material is better than physically silencing people.
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
Insecurity. Sufis know Its obvious that people will find flaws with sufi approach. instead of removing corrupted material and false hikayaat from Sufi literature they doing fascism.
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
Their main issue is with Jihad. will they ban literature of other deobandi imams and scholars as well?
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
Insecurity. Sufis know Its obvious that people will find flaws with sufi approach. instead of removing corrupted material and false hikayaat from Sufi literature they doing fascism.
Peace brother ajazali
True scholarship is hard and Sufis I associate with recognise that. True scholarship classifies material it does not remove it from existence. Sisi is just doing what the Salafis did with all the other literature. Sufis have nothing to do with this. I'm not in favour of hiding material - this is a good time to recall that I stopped studying with Salafis when I found out about all the abridged books they have out and their systematic boycotting of other books on the grounds (they allege) that they are flawed, fake or fabricated. Let us decide ... through rigorous scholarship. I am not an advocate of lazy Sufism. We are instructed to learn as well and not all Sufis are the same. You should know that by now. If insecurity is the claim you wish to level then that insecurity should be leveled first at the people who did this first ...
Now why is it so potent? It is because for the untrained minds the heavily pruned approach seems to be clean and correct. All the groups agree with the solid stuff - all the groups cannot possibly deny the mutawatir. So they got rid of everything else that had some degree of ambiguity and confusion, other parts are merely reinterpreted against the traditional lines - and hey presto you have an approach that is rooted in firm reference. However, the tree of knowledge is so heavily pruned by now that it resembles a pole. The beauty is removed from it and more often than not the mercy is culled from the Deen. The hard line approach is crisp and the banks don't slope down gradually but end sharply into tall cliffs that if a person strays from will fall down.
The fitnah in this modern Islamic Protestantism is that for the high-schooler it looks pretty much fault free - which it is ... but by being so fault free it also suffers a huge fault which cannot be seen - the missing parts ... That huge fault is - that the essence or nature of the religion itself becomes something else. It is a Khawarij simplification.
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
Peace brother ajazali
True scholarship is hard and Sufis I associate with recognise that. True scholarship classifies material it does not remove it from existence. Sisi is just doing what the Salafis did with all the other literature. Sufis have nothing to do with this. I'm not in favour of hiding material - this is a good time to recall that I stopped studying with Salafis when I found out about all the abridged books they have out and their systematic boycotting of other books on the grounds (they allege) that they are flawed, fake or fabricated. Let us decide ... through rigorous scholarship. I am not an advocate of lazy Sufism. We are instructed to learn as well and not all Sufis are the same. You should know that by now. If insecurity is the claim you wish to level then that insecurity should be leveled first at the people who did this first ...
Now why is it so potent? It is because for the untrained minds the heavily pruned approach seems to be clean and correct. All the groups agree with the solid stuff - all the groups cannot possibly deny the mutawatir. So they got rid of everything else that had some degree of ambiguity and confusion, other parts are merely reinterpreted against the traditional lines - and hey presto you have an approach that is rooted in firm reference. However, the tree of knowledge is so heavily pruned by now that it resembles a pole. The beauty is removed from it and more often than not the mercy is culled from the Deen. The hard line approach is crisp and the banks don't slope down gradually but end sharply into tall cliffs that if a person strays from will fall down.
The fitnah in this modern Islamic Protestantism is that for the high-schooler it looks pretty much fault free - which it is ... but by being so fault free it also suffers a huge fault which cannot be seen - the missing parts ... That huge fault is - that the essence or nature of the religion itself becomes something else. It is a Khawarij simplification.
Who else in egypt is if slafis and ikhwanis are not in power? They are sufis and sufis are really happy with that. if you say they are not sufis then the truth is all the liberalism, modernism(read vulgarity) and laziness is coming out of sufism.
The issue is not limited to abridged books. we can easily see the arguments and authenticity by chaining and consistency of the message. Biggest issue with sufis is they use such ahadith FOR fiqah that are not directly narrated as sunnah of holy prophet(s.a.w). For example sufis would use a hadith that says sahaba(r.a.) did a thing without mentioning holy prophet(s.a.w) ordered sahaba(r.a.) to do so. Problem is, if few sahaba(r.a.) did out of misconception or on their own that does not mean it should be continued. Another difference is, sufis look for things to justify what they believe Islam should be. Where as the right approach is studying Islam without bias, do what is ordered and stay away from which is prohibited.
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
Sisi is Sufi? LOL
aejazali...if you heard what my Egyptian pro-army friend has to say about Sufis you'd be shocked.
In Egypt, Sufis are seen as some useless, poor people who have isolated themselves from ikhwanis as well as liberals. They are not considered "proper muslims" by both mentioned extremes.
Don't mistake Al-Azhar for being "sufi".
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
^What is type of sharia system that approves crimes of judiciary in Egypt? Atleast that is neither ikhwani nor salfist
Grand mufti is a sufi, what type of sufi he is?
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
^What is type of sharia system that approves crimes of judiciary in Egypt? Atleast that is neither ikhwani nor salfist Grand mufti is a sufi, what type of sufi he is?
Al-Azhar is not run by Sufis or ikhwanis...it's controlled by whoever is in power (mostly the army or pro-army rulers). Even Morsi tried bringing a self-chosen grand mufti to back him up. So don't give me "Sufis are running Egyptian courts". Thank you very much.
Sufis don't go around condemning people to death and if someone is doing it then he's not being true to sufi teachings. Grand mufti can call himself a sufi or a god...doesn't change the fact that he's wrong.
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
Just saw the news about assassination of Egyptian prosecutor....MBH bombed his car. What do you have to say about that?
I want to change my mind about the grand mufti...may be he's correct.
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
Can mods please move posts about Morsi and grand mufti to another thread....this thread wasn't meant to discuss that topic.
Going back to the topic, I wholeheartedly support the removal of salafi literature from mosques. I'll post an interesting article regarding this shortly.
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
Who else in egypt is if slafis and ikhwanis are not in power? They are sufis and sufis are really happy with that. if you say they are not sufis then the truth is all the liberalism, modernism(read vulgarity) and laziness is coming out of sufism.
The issue is not limited to abridged books. we can easily see the arguments and authenticity by chaining and consistency of the message. Biggest issue with sufis is they use such ahadith FOR fiqah that are not directly narrated as sunnah of holy prophet(s.a.w). For example sufis would use a hadith that says sahaba(r.a.) did a thing without mentioning holy prophet(s.a.w) ordered sahaba(r.a.) to do so. Problem is, if few sahaba(r.a.) did out of misconception or on their own that does not mean it should be continued. Another difference is, sufis look for things to justify what they believe Islam should be. Where as the right approach is studying Islam without bias, do what is ordered and stay away from which is prohibited.
Brother this is the point where further conversation is not going to be productive ... You said ... "Biggest issue with Sufis is they use such ahadith FOR fiqah ..." You clearly have not understood tassawwuf or Sufis ... Coming back to the books part you should acknowledge that hiding Hadith and not fully entertaining the ahadith is something not done by Sufis. Sufis don't have insecurities in ahadith. Furthermore the books of of salafi scholars are not considered wrong in the Hadith content, but in the various rulings and extrapolated implications drawn from them.
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
Just saw the news about assassination of Egyptian prosecutor....MBH bombed his car. What do you have to say about that?
I want to change my mind about the grand mufti...may be he's correct.
So you have evidence that MBH bombed his car. that is how you convey "truth"
you were waiting for some incident you "change" your mind, though no actual change happened as it was same then.
So grand mufit is right and car bomber is wrong?
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
Brother this is the point where further conversation is not going to be productive ... You said ... "Biggest issue with Sufis is they use such ahadith FOR fiqah ..." You clearly have not understood tassawwuf or Sufis ... Coming back to the books part you should acknowledge that hiding Hadith and not fully entertaining the ahadith is something not done by Sufis. Sufis don't have insecurities in ahadith. Furthermore the books of of salafi scholars are not considered wrong in the Hadith content, but in the various rulings and extrapolated implications drawn from them.
Are you saying "real" sufis are few, in minority and are hardly found anywhere in the world? Understanding the tassawwuf means nothing, internet is full of knowledge. I want to know where I can see the tassawwaf practicing sufis, the tassawwuf you talk about?
You sort of supporting ban on salfi material and say its not our type of sufis who are doing this. Although by default Egypt's people are sufis but I wont argue so please enlighten what is tassuwaff practice of sufis in the world. understanding what tassawwuf is not required.
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
^I changed my mind when I search on the Internet for MBH's history and their crimes.
MBH is a terrorist organization like Taliban.and Daesh...they have a history of killing muslims. And of course it's evident it's mbh behind the recent bombing ...they person they killed had condemned dozens of MBH criminals to death penalty. They deserve nothing but hangings. Please stop supporting terrorists.
I don't support Sisi or other dictators but radical movements need to be purged.
Re: Egypt removes wahabi/salafi literature
Oh yea. Sectarianism makes people adore jew loving egyptian military lol.