Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
Sharabi- you should provide reference in support of your claim
Which in My limited knowledge is totally unislamic.
Hands ? 
You are sure that you are not mixing things up ?
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
"And believe no one unless he follows your religion." Say: "True guidance is the Guidance of Allah: (Fear ye) Lest a revelation be sent to someone (else) Like unto that which was sent unto you? or that those (Receiving such revelation) should engage you in argument before your Lord?" Say: "All bounties are in the hand of Allah: He granteth them to whom He pleaseth: And Allah careth for all, and He knoweth all things."
Surah Al-Imran, Verse 73
Narrated Ibn 'Umar: *Allah's Apostle said, "On the Day of Resurrection, Allah will grasp the whole Earth by His Hand, and all the Heavens in His right, and then He will say, 'I am the King." Abu Huraira said, "Allah's Apostle said," Allah will grasp the Earth...' "
*
Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 9, Book 93, Number 509
**
Sifat-ullah (Qualities of Allah)
**
All that has been revealed in Allah's Book (the Quran) as regards the Qualities of Allah (swt), the Most High, like His Face, Eyes, Hands, Shins, (legs), His Coming ,His (Istawa) rising over His Throne and others, or all that Allah's Messenger (SAS) qualified Him in the true authentic Prophet's Ahadeeth (narrations) as regards HIs Qualities like (Nuzul), His Descent or His laughing and others, the religious scholars of the Qurans and the Sunnah believe in these Qualities of Allah and they confirm that these are really His Qualities, without Ta'wil (interpreting their meanings into different meanings) or Tashbih (giving resemblance or similarity to any of the creatures) or Ta'til (completely ignoring or denying them i.e. there is no Face, or Eyes, or Hands, or Shins of Allah). These Qualities befit or suit only for Allah Alone, and He does not resemble any of (His) creatures. As Allah's Statement (in the Quran):
(1) THere is nothing like Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seerer" (V.42:11)
(2) There is none comparable to Him (V.112:4)".
The above passage has been taken from the Tafseer of a copy of the Holy Quran, translated by Dr Muhammad Taqi ud Din Al Hilali and Dr Muhammad Mohsin Khan and printed by King Fahd Complex for the Printing of the Holy Quran.
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
From what I understand there is a group originated from Arabs who believe that Allah does have these defined characteristics. Most muslims and muslim scholars believe that the "hands" the Quran talks about are figurative. Like "lend me a helping hand", doesn't mean reach out your hand and touch me. It means "help me out" with whatever tool you can think of.
What is the arabic word used for "hands" and does it have the same connotation as a physical human hand?
The verse "there is nothing comparable to Him" would tell us that these are not human hands or humanoid hands or even hands of a different physical composition and morophology, but figurative hands.
The real Islamic stance on it is that we just don't know what God looks like and therefore, we can't stipulate what God will look like. The hadith's that talk about God showing his "leg" to the Prophet go against this basic ayah "There is none comparable to Him". I am sure there are loads of other verses which stress that Allah does not have human physical qualities and that we would not be able to even handle it if Allah were to show Himself to us. These kinds of Ayahs are repeated over and over and over again in the Quran.
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
"God" is used in a monotheistic sense. "Brahman" does not even make that basic qualification.
There is a cut-off line. Muslims will share the name of God with the people who's meanings of whatever the term they use for their own deity are close to the meaning of Allah. Like I said, God in Christian and in Jewish tradition is a monotheistic one. Only recently is the Christian meaning of God being questioned as monotheistic. Nevertheless, Jews still use the term, so its okay - no problem. And its the same God technically because the Bible and Torah are accepted as actual revelation from Alllah, only twisted.
The vedas on the other hand - there is just a theory that it could be revelation from Allah - there is nothing to guarantee it. So to say that the Brahman referred to in these books is identical to Allah is just a theory and nothing more. Unless further research is done and someone finds further clues that Ram and Krishna, etc were Prophets and over time turned into gods.
You still haven't answered my question - where does the tradition of all these other gods that I listed come from?
Code-Red, have you read the Vedas and all the religious text of the hindus? If I say, lets analyze the Quran without Hadith, since Hadith are man-made, you people are all up in arms. But then you ask for the Vedas to be taken in isolation? Why not look at their other scriptures? Also, is rvikz taking some isolated descriptions of Brahman and showing us just those?
Again I ask the hindus where these other gods come from, if they believe in one god?
And a god that takes on other forms is not the a characteristic that Allah has told us in our revelations that He uses. So to call my God "Bhagwan", I am bringing in those characteristics into the picture that God has not made me aware of thru the Quran, and therefore, it would be folly for me to say that God does certain things when he may not do them.
I prefer to be a bit more respectful and admit that I do not know exactly how God works. That's not to say we shouldn't do research and try to gain more knowledge. But just as I said in the thread on women being created from a man's rib, its folly to say that God does something when He does not. This doesn't mean he doesn't have the power to, but why should any human describe God's history, when God hasn't revealed it?
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
You are right PCG.
But as a muslim we are suppose to take the hadeeth and the Quranic ayaahs literally not figuratively. If Allah has mentioned His Face, His Hands, His Shins, His Laugh...than he must have them. But they are in no way similar to ours. To think that they will be similar to ours is forbidden and is wrong. He has Hands and a Face and Leg....but we cannot imagine how they are and in what form they are, we'r just told he has those qualities..and thats it.
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
You have a fair point, to preserve our seperate identity maybe it would be better to just stick to mainly Muslim terminology, maybe every Muslim should learn Arabic and all religious and spiritual affairs should be carried out in Arabic. All I was saying was that these names are just Sanskrit translations of God’s attribute such as “Lord” and “Creator” and need not be associated with just Hinduism, a Desi of any religion should be allowed to use them. I’m all for being unique but I think we can differentiate ourselves from the Pagans by our concept of God, beliefs and practices more importantly than language, I mean even the pre-Islamic Arab pagans had similar beleifs to Hindus and called the Supreme Omnipotent Deity “Allah” but there concept of Him and some beleifs regarding Him were pretty messed up, or take the Arab Christians, they call Him “Allah” but they believe in the Trinity, I’m sorry to say but you’re wrong, the Trinity is not something new, it’s been a part of Christianity since the times of the Prophet (sal allaaho alaihe wassallam) and before, as well as beleiving in the trinity those Christians also prayed to Mary (PBUH).
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
^ The trinity has evolved. It used to be that Jesus is the son of God. Now its that Jesus is a reincarnation of God and was God himself walking on earth.
Even today, Christians themselves are confused if he is the son or the reincarnation of God.
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
If reference to Allah's hands in the Quran were meant to be taken literally then it would contradict this ayah:
"Say, 'He is Allah, the One;
Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
He begets not, and neither is He begotten;
And there is nothing that can be compared to Him."
Qur'an 112:1-4
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
keep repeating your mantra…may be it will turn out to be true.
I repeat there is no Plural for “Brahman” (BrahmaN for Urdu speakers…with a noon-ghunna at the end…it is not same as Brahamann ..pandit], “Ishwar”, “Bhagwan” …these words are used in monotheistic sens…also Waheguru, Parmaatma are monotheistic words…there is no concept them being more than ONE and hence no Plural for them.
PCG…here is what I see the verse means or use of it means…a Hindu and Muslim hear it and Muslim thinks..Hey my Allah give us guidance and peace…Hindu hears it and think hey my Bhagwan give us guidance and peace…and both feel good and can co-exist with each other.
you obviously are brought up on the TNT feeder and can’t comprehend…but don’t worry…more people hear you more they digest the TNT powder better…what you see the world as, as the world turn like that. What is around us is a mirror image of us…harbour love, receive love…harbour contempt..receive contempt…harbour separatedness, receive separatedness..my child don’t go that path and don’t lead others there.
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
Who said anything about not loving and not co-existing?
If anything, understanding and respecting differences should bring two people of different races more closer together in friendship. Quit thinking that I'm trying to "hate" here, because that's not what this is - but that's the only excuse you can come up with.
Channmahi - explain those gods that I listed, if Brahman is the only god that exists to you. If you don't believe in them, then fine - just say you don't. But then admit that you are not the average hindu with the commonly held belief that even the most educated pundits amongst you hold.
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
Sharabi - the use of word “hands” is purely figurative, it is crystal clear from the verse you posted “All bounties are in the hand of Allah” Any person can guess it easily.
The same way indian movies we hear “* Qanoon ke haath bohat lambey hain *” 
And iff you mistakingly take it literally like physical hands and other body parts , then that is a grave mistake, It will directly contradict the verse of Sura Ikhlaas
“And there is nothing that can be compared to Him.”
PCG- You are walking in circles :rotato:
I tried to avoid going into complexities, because it gets boring then …
We are not discussing here hindu system of beliefs in detail because it is irrelevent But as you insist ..
Hinduism is very old (ancient) it was basically monotheistic (like most of the major religion in their early days) and with the passage of time followers corrupted the beliefs ( like the follower of all religions did)
Arab Pagans {at the time of prophet (pbuh) } were the follower of Abrahimic religion, but in corrupt form. They believed in One Allah (the creater, the All mighty God ) and also believed in other gods (laat, munaat ,Uzza etc) Prophet told them to worship only one God (Allah, which they used to bleive as almighty) and reject all other gods
Same is the case with hindusim, They have the porper concept of “One almighty God” in their earliest books ( Allah may have revealed it by his prophets) but with the passage of time people made their beliefs corrupt and added many other gods.
To be fair, this also happened with muslims to some extents as there are millions of grave worshipers in muslims also there are great number of followers of Devil who cast evil spells and magic to harm other fellow muslims. but Thankfully we have Quran in its purest form. We can always revet for guidance.
So in short, Prophet Muhammad ( and his followers) never tried to invent a new word for “Allah” ( One almighty God) just becuase paggans used this word too
The same way hindus have concept of one Almighty (Eeshwar, Barhama, ) with many impurties added later on. Now we have 99 names for Allah and We use translation of these name ( although many of them objectionable ) but we use them to convey our message.
Even I find the word ‘God’ more objectionable than Barhama or eeshwar
Because there can plural for God, “Gods” there are otherwords like Godfather God is predominantly associated with christianity i.e ‘Son of God’ so on and so forth
On the other hand Barhama and Eshawar are singular and more appropriate translation of creater and almighty (one) God.
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
pcg you expect somebody thousand of miles away from arab country to come up with same ideas and same name for god?
how in the world a person in a chinese village come up with arabic name for god?
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
:k:
Doesn’t Waheguru just mean All-Knowing? Correct me if I’m wrong.
What are the literal translations of Brahman, Prabhu Ishwar and Bhagwan?
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
people get stuck with idea that number one is some kind of mathamatical value
in terms of god. certain things you dont use numbers especially when comes to god only material things are counted in terms of numbers . may be proper
way is to decribe there is a single entity for all of us not separate for each religen.
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
hindu 'gods' have different names and forms because people are free to visualise it in any form they are comfortable with. You are free to see the god as a father, a mother, a teacher, a friend, your child and heck, even your lover. The idea is that you love your god in all its glory. The multiple forms that hindu gods take is simply how they visualise their god.
I am a son to my parents, a brother to my sister, a friend to my friend, and an husband to my wife. But I am still the same single person. God is the same.
These flexibilities are offered in hinduism because there is no compulsion. You can treat your god as one whom you should fear or one whom you should placate or one whom you simply love.
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
Every one of the guppies that is running down hinduism here ignores the stark reality that all religion is a matter of faith not of knowledge. Nobody here knows for sure with scientific certainty if there is God, if he ever revealed himself to anybody. A billion chinese (who incidentally happen to be Pakistan’s best friends) don’t belive in Islam. I don’t see any Pakistani guppies criticise them. Get it in your heads. Nobody’s religion is any truer than anobody elses. Scientific truth does not exist in the realm of religion so stop pretending it does in your religion.
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
Means praise to the Guru.
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
***Eeeshwar, Allah tero naaam
sab ko sum'mati de Bhagwan
I dont Know i am right or wrong and i sure a lot of friends here will not agree with me.
There is only one god but the way is different how one worship them. I know in Karachi there two very famous things to eat that karachi ka halwa and samosa .. and they use the same stuff to prepare it " ATTA " its the way we cook two different dishes but the things is that both are made of same " ATTA"
God is one ...I go to temple to pray him, i go to gurudwara to pray him, i go to church to pray him, i go to masjid and pray him ...
I know he is one and looking at me ... he is every where .... i can talk to him in every form, every where with any name ..... he is looking at me ....i can pray to ganesha anywhere because i belive he is very where ..... a muslim can have his namaz anywhere be cause he belive allah is everywhere .. allah , god, eeshwar is exist where we want him ......
thats it this is what i think..... i may be wrong but i am happy that i am surrouned by all gods .....
Gaurav
Re: Eeshwar Allah tero naam
Great debate going on above..
Two points
1. Somebody referred about its Ok since less people say Khuda now and its not ok since more people say Bhagwan. An arguments validity isn't based on how many people say it. Its in oneself when you analyse and decide what's right and what's wrong.
2. There are too many Hindu guppies here doesn't look like Pakistani site - Sirjee, you need different views for debate and discussion, Infact not having many Christians in this disucssion is making this discussion very Hindu vs Muslim. We should try to get Christians, Buddhist and people from other religions to contribute. So all of us can get holistic picture.