Eating Jhattka...

Sadiyah · September 14, 2005, 2:15am

Re: Eating Jhattka...

Good for those who avoid ahle-kitaab's food, but it doesn't mean those who consume it are sinning or wrong. There's a difference of opinion and we should learn to respect each other.

AQ · September 14, 2005, 3:30am

Re: Eating Jhattka...

There is a difference between "Slaughtering" and "Jhatka"

JHATKA is never permissible and it is Muttafiq Alyeh.

The difference is slaughtering of an animal by a person from Ahl-e-Kitaab who does not slaughter it according to the earliest Divine instructions (The very reason it was made halal to eat)... I would not eat a slaughtered animal by Ahl-e-kitaab if it is not according to the laws given to them, but I will never call it haram either for those following the ruling of it being halal.

As for Jhatka, that is kullun Haram. Animal has to be slaughtered not stunned by breaking the neck or spine.

Rasheed_Ahmed · September 14, 2005, 4:03am

Re: Eating Jhattka...

Sadiyah:"Good for those who avoid ahle-kitaab's food, but it doesn't mean those who consume it are sinning or wrong. There's a difference of opinion and we should learn to respect each other".

You know what, they are sinning because majority of dishes in restaurants and homes are made with cooking wine which is used as a intergral part of many dishes. Muslims who think they are eating Ahlekitab foods do not inquire with waiter about cooking wine, majority of clam chowder does contain bacon or pork. They do not want to go in details because they are addicted to these foods for long time and use ahlekitab card to justify their Nafs. Majority of gravies and sauces are made from dripping from meat recipes including pork when they briol, grill or baked. Many Itaian dishes contains spaghetti sauce which is made from Harm cheese, wine. Even at supermarket shelves Barilla's Green and black olive oil spaghetti sauce contains wine. Burger King veggi patty is made with wine. Allah ask us to eat their foods if they are tayub. So we have to find their tayub foods such as apple sauce. Some Muslims use it as a blank check which is wrong. Such as supermarket meat which is not slaughetered according Bible instructions or church regulations but it is based on USDA regulations except religious slaughtering which exclude christians but its regualtion are for Muslims and Jews. We are educating Muslims through our web site www.muslimconsumergroup.com and Halal food book "A Comprehensive List of Halal Food Products in US and Canadian Supermarkets" since long time. Many Muslims gained lot of knowledge through these efforts and many Muslims still use the ahlekitab card.

AQ · September 14, 2005, 4:06am

Re: Eating Jhattka...

^ "justyfying Nafs" part actually clicked a lot.

Faisal · September 14, 2005, 4:55am

Re: Eating Jhattka...

Its not surprising that those who eat only zabihah meat adopt an unhealthy holier than thou attitude in these discussions. Anyway, the topic was meat, so lets stick to meats, and not add more variables to the discussion, like cooking wine etc. These are all whole different topics, which are also extensively discussed by scholars. To the best of my knowledge, no one condones eating clam chowder that contains bacon or pork, so thats irrelevant. No matter how you slaughter a pig, it will remain haraam. End of story.

Secondly, the issue of stunning is important. What I know is that in big slaughter houses, they stun the animal using a stun gun. Presumably that lessens the pain of the animal when the machine dismembers the neck. The blood is then drained as per FDA regulations.

The real important issue is whether muslims can only consume meats on which the name of Allah is taken at the time of slaughter; or is there an exception for meats slaughtered by "People of the Book". That is the core issue which is debated endlessly. The rest is just froth. A large number of muslim scholars and imams agree that name of Allah must be taken at the time of slaugter to make it zabihah and halal. Some scholars rule that meats from People of the Book is specifically permitted in the Quran, so for that take name of Allah before consumption. It will not be zabihah but will be halal. Wallah O Aalim.

AQ · September 14, 2005, 5:13am

Re: Eating Jhattka…

That statement is by far too generalized and un-true.

I eat only Zabiha and I already said:I would not eat a slaughtered animal by Ahl-e-kitaab if it is not according to the laws given to them, but I will never call it haram either for those following the ruling of it being halal.

Lajawab · September 14, 2005, 5:31am

Re: Eating Jhattka…

From the link Sadiyah posted:

Question :

I know that this question has been addressed, but I am still confused as to all the circumstances in which it is permissible. Basically, is it permissible to eat meat from restaurants if it is not known whether the name of God has been pronounced at the time of slaughtering of the animal.

Answer :
  Praise be to Allaah.  
If these restaurants are in a country where the slaughter of meat is taken care of by Muslims or People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians), or the restaurant owners take care of the slaughter themselves and they are Muslims or people of the Book, then it is permissible to eat there, even if we do not know whether they mentioned the name of Allaah over the slaughter or not, because the basic principle is that their meat is allowed. Al-Bukhaari (2057) narrated from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that some people said, “O Messenger of Allaah, some people bring meat to us and we do not know whether they mentioned the name of Allaah over it or not.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Say the name of Allaah over it and eat it.”

But if the slaughter of meat is taken care of by people other than Muslims or people of the Book, such as atheists and Hindus, then it is not permissible to eat it.

It should be noted that meat slaughtered by a Muslim or a Jew or Christian is permissible if it was slaughtered in the manner prescribed in sharee’ah or if we do not know how it was slaughtered. But if we know that it was slaughtered in a way other than that prescribed in sharee’ah, such as by strangling, electric shock, etc, then it is maytah or dead meat and it is haraam to eat it regardless of whether the one who killed it was a Muslim or a kaafir, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Forbidden to you (for food) are: Al‑Maitah (the dead animals — cattle — beast not slaughtered), blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which Allaah’s Name has not been mentioned while slaughtering (that which has been slaughtered as a sacrifice for others than Allaah, or has been slaughtered for idols) and that which has been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by the goring of horns — and that which has been (partly) eaten by a wild animal — unless you are able to slaughter it (before its death)”
  [al-Maa'idah 5:3] 

  Shaykh Ibn Baaz in Fataawa Islamiyyah, 3/414

  Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said: 

  One of the following three scenarios must apply to this meat: 

  1 – We know that it has been slaughtered in the proper manner. This meat is halaal. 

  2 – We know that it has not been slaughtered in the proper manner. This meat is haraam. 
3 – We are not sure; we do not know whether it has been slaughtered in the proper manner or not. The ruling in this case is that the meat is halaal, and we do not have to ask about how it was killed, or whether the name of Allaah was mentioned over it or not. Rather it seems from the Sunnah that it is better not to ask or try to find out. Hence when they said to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), “we do not know whether they mentioned the name of Allaah over it or not,” he did not say to them, Ask them whether they mentioned the name of Allaah over them or not, rather he said: “Say the name of Allaah over it yourselves, and eat it.” This tasmiyah or saying of the name of Allaah which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told them to do is not the tasmiyah of slaughter, because the slaughter is over and done with. Rather it is the tasmiyah of eating, because what is prescribed is for the person who is eating to say the name of Allaah when he eats. The correct view regarding saying the name of Allaah when eating is that it is obligatory, because the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) enjoined it, and because if a person does not say the name of Allaah, the Shaytaan shares his food and drink.

If a person wants to be cautious and forego eating this meat, there is nothing wrong with that, but there is also nothing wrong with eating it.
  From Fataawa Islamiyyah, 3/415 

  And Allaah knows best. 

**Al-Bukhaari (2057) narrated from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that some people said, “O Messenger of Allaah, some people bring meat to us and we do not know whether they mentioned the name of Allaah over it or not.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Say the name of Allaah over it and eat it.” **

Note:

The ‘people’ are unknown…They could be Mushrikeen, Yahud, Nasara, Migdolians, Magians, Parsis or whatever…
No mention of Zabiha or method of slaughtering is made…
Nothing was asked whether it was skewered with pork or anything…(Fire, in Islam BTW, cleanses Najis from quite a few things…)
“Just say the name of Allah :swt: over it and eat it.”

So, no mention of what people, no mention of method, no mention of cooking method, just simply say the name of Allah over it and eat it…

funguy · September 14, 2005, 3:34pm

Re: Eating Jhattka…

Good Point Lajawab. But munkireen-e-hadith like Anwar Qureshi won’t eat such meat.

Code_Red · September 14, 2005, 4:06pm

Re: Eating Jhattka…

o jee bas bhi kardo ab…

Jisko khana hai khao, nahi khana tu bhindi, teendey kareley kha lo :k:

nahi tu anda kha lo :k:

thread close kardo

Captain1 · September 14, 2005, 4:38pm

Re: Eating Jhattka…

Anwar Qureshi is munkire-hadith, thats news to me.

Captain1 · September 14, 2005, 4:41pm

Re: Eating Jhattka…

Do we know if “zabihah” (but not taking Allah’s name) was a “norm” in that society or were there other methods of “slaughtering” used in that era? My thought is that the method used in “zabihah” was dominant in the society. Also, what do we know about the timing of this hadith in relation to the verses in Quran?

Rasheed_Ahmed · September 14, 2005, 9:16pm

Re: Eating Jhattka...

Originally Posted by Lajawab
From the link Sadiyah posted:

Al-Bukhaari (2057) narrated from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) that some people said, “O Messenger of Allaah, some people bring meat to us and we do not know whether they mentioned the name of Allaah over it or not.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Say the name of Allaah over it and eat it.”

This hadith is about new Muslims and many Muslims think it is about Ahlekitab. When new Muslim learning the Islam (not the Jews beacuse they already know how to slaughter) they do not know the rules of Zabiha and may not mentioned the name of Allah. But since they are Muslims and their neat is known, probably they do not pronounce the name of Allah while slaughtering. Zabiha is not practice by Kuffar because how could they say so many names of their gods at the time of slaughtering.

AQ · September 15, 2005, 3:03am

Re: Eating Jhattka…

iss ko kehtaY haiN “Thaa kar kay lagnaa” ..

The hadith in question has a context.. and if you read first few posts, you will find what context I am talking about… that is the time of hadeeth vs the time of revelation. Sharaab was not haraam for a long time, you know that too.

But again, people who reject hadith as fairy-tales are munkir-e-hadeeth such as… well you know