Re: Dupattaless culture
Religion defines parameter..... Religious authority explain those parameters.....Culture can adopt them....
If religion can define parameter and religious authority can explain parameter, then why purdah is followed differently all across the Muslim world. Isn't the name of culprit in this situation is 'Culture'? :D
Re: Dupattaless culture
it is individual perception of decency conditioned through culture and religion
None, sometimes religious are according to culture and sometimes culture affects religion in much broader term, now How much of hinduism is actually cultural animist religion of India and how much Islam got affected from pre-Islamic arabia beside using pre-Islamic arabic language in religious discourse :)
Exactly.. religions don't evolve in vacuum.. They have to look at society they are directed at.
Re: Dupattaless culture
If religion can define parameter and religious authority can explain parameter, then why purdah is followed differently all across the Muslim world. Isn't the name of culprit in this situation is 'Culture'? :D
In real, decency follows cultural norms.... religion plays minimal role...
Re: Dupattaless culture
Explain 
Re: Dupattaless culture
Exactly.. religions don't evolve in vacuum.. They have to look at society they are directed at.
Religions are mostly conscious social revolution with element of god involved in it, there teaching of truth and justice are timeless and remaining are true only for times it originated. Civilized world even witnessed, communist, god less social revolution :)
Re: Dupattaless culture
Exactly.. religions don't evolve in vacuum.. They have to look at society they are directed at.
how does culture evolve ?
look at pakistanis today, hindu's rituals are major part of our culture
Re: Dupattaless culture
Religions are mostly conscious social revolution with element of god involved in it, there teaching of truth and justice are timeless and remaining are true only for times it originated. Civilized world even witnessed, communist, god less social revolution :)
off topic: but do you think there was anything like communist revolution in this world... surkh sawera soon changed to andhera
Re: Dupattaless culture
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Re: Dupattaless culture
how does culture evolve ? look at pakistanis today, hindu's rituals are major part of our culture
Culture evolves from land so does the cultural practices (rituals). Most of things that are considered as Hindu rituals are basically cultural practices of the land. Even Hindu festivals like Holi are cultural practices, which later got some religious connotations
Re: Dupattaless culture
Culture evolves from land so does the cultural practices (rituals). Most of things that are considered as Hindu rituals are basically cultural practices of the land. Even Hindu festivals like Holi are cultural practices, which later got some religious connotations
from land means?
there must be some prior source.
if you dig into a cultural aspect you will find somehow it connected to some religious ritual.
Re: Dupattaless culture
from land means? there must be some prior source. if you dig into a cultural aspect you will find somehow it connected to some religious ritual.
in sub-continent, from land means, all the activities in cultivation and harvesting. These activities, later formalized to festivals like Basant, Holi and Besakhi. It relates to weather of the land that gave people of the land 'saawan'.
It is difficult to distinguish between a religious or cultural practice, when sometimes religion authenticate cultural practice and sometimes culture accepts religious doctrine (as it is or with some variation)
Re: Dupattaless culture
how does culture evolve ? look at pakistanis today, hindu's rituals are major part of our culture
because it is hindu land too by its basic design, Saptasindhu, the area of pakistani punjab is place, where Hindu vedas were written. so people do convert but some part of previous religion remains intact. Indonesia's airline name is after Hindu god Garuda, Iranian still celebrate Navroz :)
off topic: but do you think there was anything like communist revolution in this world... surkh sawera soon changed to andhera
It did occur, like chinese godless religion doesn't allow Islam or Buddhism in its land even now. Even most of Congress and Bhagat Singh brigade was Marxist-Leninist in thought. It affected modern India very much, not sure about Pakistan though :)
from land means? there must be some prior source. if you dig into a cultural aspect you will find somehow it connected to some religious ritual.
Hinduism is religion of agriculturist people, that is why caste classification is classification of agricultural society. Every ritual or celebration marks climatic change. Sankranti (14th Jan) marks movement of sun from south to tropic of cancer to Deepawali (amavasya of Kartik marks beginning of Winter) to Holi (begining of spring) etc :)
Re: Dupattaless culture
in sub-continent, from land means, all the activities in cultivation and harvesting. These activities, later formalized to festivals like Basant, Holi and Besakhi. It relates to weather of the land that gave people of the land 'saawan'.
It is difficult to distinguish between a religious or cultural practice, when sometimes religion authenticate cultural practice and sometimes culture accepts religious doctrine (as it is or with some variation)
then how could we conclude that religion evolves from culture instead of scripture/divine?
Re: Dupattaless culture
then how could we conclude that religion evolves from culture instead of scripture/divine?
divine revelations (If we ignore the presumptions that scriptures are written by human-beings) also consider cultural aspects like language and cultural and social conditions where words of God are revealed. So, religion can't be separated and tagged isolated from culture.
Re: Dupattaless culture
divine revelations (If we ignore the presumptions that scriptures are written by human-beings) also consider cultural aspects like language and cultural and social conditions where words of God are revealed. So, religion can't be separated and tagged isolated from culture.
By this logic, muslims are supposed to follow arabic culture?
Re: Dupattaless culture
By this logic, muslims are supposed to follow arabic culture?
Don't they follow Arabic Culture.
The point is Islam doesn't put a bar on following your culture until it deviates you from God
Re: Dupattaless culture
Don't they follow Arabic Culture.
The point is Islam doesn't put a bar on following your culture until it deviates you from God
Exactly... for instance.... in Arab culture... daughters were buried alive... after arrival of Islam this tradition became obsolete.... as one of the hadith suggests that... daughter are mercies of Allah
So, culture and religion can get along.... if both are taken wisely.... my 2 paisa....
In subcontinent... religion is taken bit by bit as needed... sometime... culture becomes religion too.... What would you say?
Back to original topic, What is definition of decency?
Re: Dupattaless culture
Don't they follow Arabic Culture.
for example? and how does that become part of religion?
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The point is Islam doesn't put a bar on following your culture until it deviates you from God
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yes but if I agree to your point how can you justify that religion follows culture?
is it like following arab culture is act of sawab and if we dont follow no gunaah?
Re: Dupattaless culture
Exactly... for instance.... in Arab culture... daughters were buried alive... after arrival of Islam this tradition became obsolete.... as one of the hadith suggests that... daughter are mercies of Allah
So, culture and religion can get along.... if both are taken wisely.... my 2 paisa....
In subcontinent... religion is taken bit by bit as needed... sometime... culture becomes religion too.... What would you say?
Back to original topic, What is definition of decency?
decency varies from region to region. In some region, a lady can be beaten for not having dupatta (like a majj without khonta).. In other cultures, even mini skirt doesn't break decency code. Decency is a relative term and can be defined by the counter-parties behavior. When someone's dress raises hooo haaa... that is an indication that someone crossed socially accepted norms about decency. Veena Malik didn't attract hooo-haa. when she came on screen dupatta less in Javed Shaikh's 'Ye Dil aap ka huwa', how many people called it indecent and after photo-shot who many people didn't call it indecent?
Re: Dupattaless culture
for example? and how does that become part of religion?
yes but if I agree to your point how can you justify that religion follows culture? is it like following arab culture is act of sawab and if we dont follow no gunaah?
This is a long debate. Can you imagine Arabs, who were so proud of their language and culture, could have adjusted with a religion, which denied them to exercise all their cultural practices. Do you think that the sunnah of Prophets like miswaak, the way one should drink water and even dressing (takno se ooper shalwar) didn't exist in Arab society before Islam?