Dubious status of Pakistani Taliban

It has been said that they are NOT genunine Taliban as they had no role in anti-Soviet struggle and they also have no role in anti-US struggle in Afghanistan. They are only using the name of Taliban to get legitimacy and probably it’s true seeing their activities which are quite different from those of Afghan Taliban.

According to the Media Monitors Network:

In Pakistan, there are also other factors at work. Many so-called leaders of the Pakistani Taliban are on the US payroll. One is Baitullah Mehsud, the self-styled leader of the Tehrik-e Taliban Pakistan. Having played no role in the anti-Soviet or anti-US struggle in Afghanistan, he was projected as a leader after the death of Abdullah Mehsud, his brother. Abdullah was captured in Afghanistan and spent two years in Guantanamo Bay. Before his release, he was recruited by the CIA. His death in 2006 deprived the US of an important asset but his brother, Baitullah, quickly moved into the slot. One indication of Baitullah’s American connection is that, despite the Pakistani spy agency Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) providing six-figure coordinates of his location, the Americans have not fired a single missile at him. Many mudbrick homes and madrassas where children from poor families learn the Qur’an have been obliterated by missile strikes, killing hundreds on mere suspicion. Similarly, in Swat, Mullah Fazlullah, another self-proclaimed Taliban leader, is frequently visited by CIA operatives. The US has also recruited a large number of tribal leaders as well as the ruling party, the National Awami Party, in the Frontier Province.

How has the US managed to recruit so many Pakistani tribal leaders? The answer lies in General Pervez Musharraf’s subservient policy, which is still pursued by his successors, of allowing the Americans a free hand in Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Agency (FATA). In the immediate aftermath of 9/11, hundreds of Pakistanis living illegally in the US were also rounded up. They were given a stark choice: work for the CIA or FBI or rot in jail. The majority willingly collaborated. Today, the CIA has hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Pakistanis on its payroll, earning $10,000 per month or more and operating in Pakistan. The same is true of tribal leaders bought for sacks full of dollars.

The US has also deliberately sabotaged any peace deals between the Pakistan army and tribal leaders. One such deal with Nek Muhammad of South Waziristan in July 2005 was thwarted by the US when it killed him with a precision-guided missile fired from a US drone. There have been many other American attacks on tribal leaders who had agreed to work for peace in the region. There have also been attacks on madrassas; the one in Bajaur in October 2006 where 82 children were killed stands out particularly for the scale of its brutality.

There are other disturbing developments as well that point to a nexus between the US, Britain, Israel and India to destabilize and destroy Pakistan. In recent months there has been a sharp increase in so-called Taliban attacks on civilian targets in Pakistan. On several occasions, when these armed men have been killed, reports from the field have been that they were not circumcised. This clearly points to Indian agents operating in Pakistan, disguised as Taliban and terrorizing the civilian population. Reports of uncircumcised dead men in Kurram Agency and Hangu district have been communicated to this writer by several residents from the area. Many knowledgeable Pakistani analysts also point to US-Israeli involvement, reinforcing the belief that the US plans to destabilize and therefore destroy Pakistan.

Re: Dubious status of Pakistani Taliban

Wouldn't it be easier for indian agents to get circumcised before going into afghanistan?
I mean, if they are all into acting like talian like it has been alleged, why take the risk of being discovered by just taking a p/iss outside in the field.

Your suggestion might have reached Indian agents now.

I don’t think they thought of getting identified by their …, if they were to circumcise and return back to India they’d be taken as “spies from Pakistan” :hehe:

Coming back to the topic, I agree with what has been said, most of TTP aren’t really “Taliban” per se. Warmongers joined Taliban to gain some “recognition”, recently Taliban leader also disagreed with TTP and I think cut ties as well.

Re: Dubious status of Pakistani Taliban

I dont think indian agents are on field directly , this breed of taliban is bought from the top and lower operatives hardly know what is the agenda of the these top talibans. There might be some operating on the ground too, who knows but its highly unlikely.

first they were supporting and created BLA with bugti etc, thats cleared out by army, now this breed of taliban are operating for money and greed of top leaders like mashud etc certainly the target chosen by these talibans depicts they are more interested in destablising Pakistan rather than just fighting Us/Pak army for defence or revenge.

Pak government and army needs to get act together and clear out these elements as US or nato will not be interested in such exercise, they have created this with the help of India and Israel to keep us busy inside too much to such a level that it destablises the whole Pakistan. This should be discussed openly with Americans and Indians, Pakistan also should stop cover up for US for such activities that make them bad guys in media or people.

I agree that Indian agents don't have to be in the field themselves. "Uncut" people found dead could be Christians or from any other religion too.

like some friends said and which i also agreed, indian agents need not to be in field.
but this puts that claim of finding un-circumcized corpses in doubt. as generally considered one un-creditable part of any report makes the creditability of the whole report questionable.
i love to know the sources of these information or its just the imagination of some over creative mind.

These " Indian agents " are geting a lot of support from political leadership in Pakistan

The JUIf chief and one of the leaders of the ruling coalition, Maulana Fazlur Rehman, has demanded that the people who are called terrorists by the government should be allowed to present their point of view in parliament during the in-camera session

More significantly, the PMLN leader Mr Nawaz Sharif has declared that he would support the proposal that “shiddat-pasand” (extremists) be “included” in the political process. As if parliament is not sovereign at the present time, he demanded that it “be empowered to end terrorism”.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

My own friend who is working as relief worker in the affected areas has indicated the same.

Re: Dubious status of Pakistani Taliban

how do we know it is the truth? Why isn't the democractic or democrazatic govt taking the issue up with international media? I am sure if Pakistan ** **then someone will h ear us!

NOTE: Mind your language here, this is Pakistani forum, if you can't respect that then we don't need you.

i was talking about creditable source not hear say

Credible soure as in CNN? Fox?

Iran, India and Russia behind Terrorism in Pakistan](http://paktribune.com/pforums/posts.php?t=38905&start=1#153070)
Javed Chaudhry speaks from Zero Point, Daily Express

(Translation of the article)

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto was the first or perhaps the last statesman who fully understood American psychology. He went to America in 1949 for education and in Berkley he had the opportunity to see them closely therefore he found out that Americans are good enemies and worst friends. Mr Bhutto thought Americans never stretch hand of friendship towards those whom they don’t consider a threat and sooner or later they must harm their friends. Probably for the same reasons when Mr Bhutto got the power he made friendly relationship with America’s two big enemies, China and Russia. He said India could anytime be friendly with America after which America and Russia both would become enemies of Pakistan and that would be very dangerous for the integrity of Pakistan, therefore we must make China our friend and reduce tensions with Russia now.

In 1978 when Mr Bhutto was imprisoned, he sent a letter through his dentist Dr Niyazi, that letter was also published in a few newspapers of that time. Mr Bhutto revealed in that letter that American Foreign Minister, Henry Kessenger told him that Americans got a detailed report made regarding their failure in Vietnam War which said that it was a great mistake of Americans to send their troops to Vietnam. Vietnam was 8000 kilometres away from America and they had sent 582,500 troops by 1969. Though Russians gave only weapons, currency and training to Nothern Vietnam. America couldn’t control its armed forces because of the distance of 8000 km. War funds had crossed the limits, and America lost the Vietnam war.

Heny Kessenger told Mr Bhutto that now America will use the same tactic against Russia, it will compel Russia to send its troops to some country, supply weapons, dollars and technology to that country and revenge Russians for the defeat in Vietnam war. Mr Bhutto wrote in his letter that he feared that America would engage Russia in Iran or Afghanistan after which there would start a big war in the region, he anticipated that Pakistan would become an American ally which was going to be a blunder. Bhutto wrote that he had informed Shah of Iran as well of this threat and had requested him to keep a balance in his relationship with America and Russia so that they could be neutral in the forthcoming face of danger.

Bhutto’s apprehensions proved to be true, Soviets invade Afghanistan in 1979, Americans started supplying Afghan Mujahideen weapons, dollars and training on the same scale which Russians maintained during Vietnam war in 1960. Those days Pakistan was under illegitimate, extra-constitutional rule of General Zia-ul-Haq. General Zia was a wise general and dangerously clever politician, he knew that America couldn’t fight or win that war without Pakistani assistance, therefore he brought Americans to the negotiation table. Americans accepted his illegal rule to be legal and constitutional and in response Mr Zia opened the whole of Pakistan for Americans. Because of Mr Zia’s generocity the American sponsored Jihad started began in Pakistan. Mujahideen were brought from all over the world, they were given american weapons and dollars, and they started fighting in Afghanistan. This jihad lasted till 1989, it caused 15000 Soviet casualties and a loss of 70 billion dollars to Russians. In 1989, Russia declared it was leaving Afghanistan, but by then Soviets had become so injured that their union broke in 1991 and Soviet Union split into small states. Thus americans revenged russians for the vietnam war.

But in this war of elephants, Pakistan was like the crushed grass. Pakistan had become a parasite of America in the result of this war, therefore since 1991 to year 2000 we kept coaxing, begging them and knocking on their door for money.

Russia in the meantime kept planning for americans to repay for their defeat.

Usama bin Laden and his men were organised by americans, americans brought them to Afghanistan but after the Afghan Jihad was over, americans dumped them over there. These people were american allies till 1990 but all of a sudden in 1994, americans declared them terrorists and started launching operations against them. Russia was waiting for that time, therefore it started aiding them through Iraq. Usama bin Laden was receiving dollars and weapons through different sources and then 9/11 took place and overwhelmed by emotions americans made the same mistake as made in vietnam. They sent their troops to Afghanistan, it was the most joyous moment for russians, amerian troops had entangled themselves into the web of history. After Afghanistan, Americans headed to Iraq and it was a bonus. Russia at once started aiding mujahideen of Iraq and Afghanistan secretly. Mujahideen were supplied with weapons, dollars and techniques of suicide attacks and so American troops were treated exactly as they were treated in Vietnam in 1965 or as americans did to russians from 1980 to 1989. This war continued in Iraq and Afghanistan till 2006, in the meanwhile Pakistan had been offering its logisitc support to americans.

In 2004, Russia decided to expand this war to Pakistan, it had two reasons behind the decision. Firstly Pakistan was an american ally during Afghan war and russia considered pakistan an accomplice to the crime. Secondly, russia thought unless the situations in Pakistan didn’t get worse, it wouldn’t stop its logistic support to america. Russians decided to use India in the plan. On the move of Russia, India opened 4 high commissions other than embassy, 14 centres for the RAW, made roads, bridges and dams in Afghanistan as well as exported its agents in Pakistani tribal areas.

These agents gave training and weapons to militants in tribal areas, militants killed tribal ‘maliks (elders)’ and formed a parallel government in there. They started crossing the border to attack NATO forces as well. Under american pressure, Pakistan sent its troops to tibal areas and then the war broke out in our tibal belt.

It was the background of this whole issue, if we analyse the current situation we find out that Russia is supplying arms to this war, Iran has connected the line of battle and India is fully active in our tribal areas. Tribal fighters are given 200 dollars per month while they have good arrangement of food and transport. Pakistan Army has arrested such people from Tribal areas who are not circumcised, who eat meat of dogs and cats and drink alcohol, whereas suicide attackers have penetrated into Islamabad, Lahore and Karachi. Therefore the reality is that Russia, India and Iran have targeted Pakistan. Iran is playing this game in friendship of India and enmity of America. India wants to revenge Pakistan for its 61 year long drawn defeat while Russia wants Pakistan to pay the price of Afghan war through this.

Original article in Urdu here:

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..so shall we reap

There are many possibilities which we might be missing, for example:

The media is NOT allowed in the war torn Tribal areas to meet the so called Pakistani Taliban or interview locals of the affected areas. This war is more or less like that in the Eat Pakistan. There were briefings from the army like those we have now today, in camera briefings, claiming 'all is ok' and everything is under control. There were claims that Bengalis were terrorists and Pak Army were the spiritual and virtuous force. After the Fall of Dhaka we found out who the actual terrorists or culprits were. There in the East Pakistan, we also tried our 'Tribal Force' of al Badr and ash Shams that couldn't help.

Therefore, this is only a 'theory' that Pakistani Taliban are terrorists and they are not a reaction force to Pakistani terror policies in the region. We can't blame Pakistani Taliban straight away without any sound evidence while media has NO access to gather 'realiable' information. They are briefed by the spokesman of ISPR who definitely is biased and not fair.

While Pakistani Tribal areas are affected, it is stupidity to believe that America, India and Israeel are not exploiting it.
America is our enemy number 1, who hates us because we are called Muslims, we have Muslim names and we have nuclear weapons. Sometimes we 'really' become Muslims emotionally, so America being a zionist Christian state thinks narrow mindedly and obviously the whole of West is behind America whenever it's about Muslims.
Israeel has 2 real enemies in the world now, Iran and Pakistan, Pakistan can anytime wake up against Zionism because of some 'religious fanatics', so we are a target of Israeel too.
And India is our ex-girl friend, no doubt about it, we broke up in 1947.

Now the question is who's supporting Pakistani Taliban militarily.
It could be Russia, as pointed out by Javed Chaudhry in his above article.
It could be al Qaida too; they might be supporting Pakistani Taliban in the name of Jihad against Pakistani Infidels (as Pakistanis are the part of Crusade against Islam). In broader respect al Qaida could be right. We have certainly been supporting US/NATO in the murder of our innocent neighbours in Afghanistan who by chance are Muslims, and we are receiving money too from the murderers for the bloodshed. It's not a decent job we are doing, is it?
It could be India as well; Pakistani Taliban might have this notion that since Pakistanis are being supported by Americans to kill Muslims, so it's quite fair to kill 'Pakistani Infidels' with the help of Hindus. If Hindus are bad then Americans are also not nice.

In short, whatever the truth is, Pakistan itself is responsible for all this trouble. The government of Parvez Musharraf, PPP and Pak Army are responsible for everything bad happening inside Pakistan, good or bad, it's the fruit which we are compelled to pluck, we ourselves sowed it's seeds in 2001. We did'nt learn from what we did in the East Pakistan that caused Pakistan to break and Allah forbid we are heading to another split of Pakistan because of our so called leaders who have always betrayed us, failed us.

If you go by the title of this thread, the contents were expected to be of serious nature.

Unfortunately this is yet another effort to rely on rumor mongering and finger pointing.

---------- Media monitor network --- who the heck is this?

--------- ISI providing six figure coordinates on baitullah. Another funny one! If Pak army knew of this "six figure coordinate" on baitullah, they would have sent him to jahnnum by themselves. What's up with this begging CIA to shoot at baitullah? CIA doesn't wait for PA to attack with drones.

----------- Some terrorists are uncircumcised! Big deal! it would be much more important to find the true ID of a terrorist than fixating with his penis.

On this board these supporters of Islamic radicals would not stop at anything. They will use lies, rumors, and innuendos to deflect the blame. And there are many gullible Pakistanis to lap up all the untruths as long you tag a conspiracy theory linked to USA, Israel, India, and uncut penises.

Pak Army is not operating in Waziristan, they are relying on drone attacks for this reason. This is why there is no condemnation or defiance from the Army chief over drone attacks, he spoke up only upon the ground assault from Americans at Angoor Adda.
It has been discussed on news channels and papers as well that Pakistan had provided Americans with the exact location of Baitullah Mehsud when he was out but he was not hit by them, and it proved he was a CIA man. In fact such evidences and those from Balochistan were handed over to Americans by ex-president Parvez Musharraf which claimed clear involvement of India in the terrorism on Pakistani soil but what happened, Musharraf was removed by the PPP.
As for Islamic Radicals, you can't get rid of them on Pakistani soil, they are millions and millions, thousands of seminaries, millions of Islamic Radicals that believe in fighting the kuffar. They have not yet risen, only a few of them, fear the day when they stand up against kuffar.

Pak army is operating helicopters and using airforce throughout the tribal area. It is a lie that Pak army is not operating in NW or SW.

Repeating the rumors again. Yeap. repeat them and re-repeat them until the gullibles on this board accept them as "facts".

Fervid, if you know there is a thief in your house, and you have a gun in your hand, then you don't go over to your neighbor's asking him to shoot the thief. Would you?

This part of your post clearly shows that you support Jihadist terrorist war against Pakistan. This is a clear violation of this forum's rules.

Mods. Please take note.

Probably you don't live in Pakistan or don't have an access to Pakistani media, it's true that Pak Army is not operating in Waziristan, they are relying on drone attacks only.

[quote]
Repeating the rumors again. Yeap. repeat them and re-repeat them until the gullibles on this board accept them as "facts".
[/quote]

I think I have provided with some evidence to back up my stance.

[quote]
Fervid, if you know there is a thief in your house, and you have a gun in your hand, then you don't go over to your neighbor's asking him to shoot the thief. Would you?
[/quote]

Fervid would do it if he's not scared by the thief, he might call the police (US) if he didn't have the gun or the finger (that triggers the gun).

[quote]
This part of your post clearly shows that you support Jihadist terrorist war against Pakistan. This is a clear violation of this forum's rules.

Mods. Please take note.
[/quote]

Mods, please take note that I don't support terrorists, I simply like burqaposh Jihadis, they are hawttt :D

AlQaida is CAN'T be right if they are attacking Pakistan, Pakistani people, Pakistani economy. AlQaida was WRONG when they attacked 9/11, when they attacked 7/7 just like US is condemned whenever civilians are killed by their attacked. If AlQaida really has balls they should stop hiding amongst civilians and fight face-to-face with militaries.

[quote]
It could be India as well; Pakistani Taliban might have this notion that since Pakistanis are being supported by Americans to kill Muslims, so it's quite fair to kill 'Pakistani Infidels' with the help of Hindus. If Hindus are bad then Americans are also not nice.
[/quote]
I'd say that would be moronic.

[quote]
In short, whatever the truth is, Pakistan itself is responsible for all this trouble. The government of Parvez Musharraf, PPP and Pak Army are responsible for everything bad happening inside Pakistan, good or bad, it's the fruit which we are compelled to pluck, we ourselves sowed it's seeds in 2001. We did'nt learn from what we did in the East Pakistan that caused Pakistan to break and Allah forbid we are heading to another split of Pakistan because of our so called leaders who have always betrayed us, failed us.
[/quote]

As much as Musharraf/PPP are responsible so is Taliban/TTP and AlQaida for all this terrorizing of nation.

It's not my stance that al Qaida is right, I am only giving a perspective; al Qaida and a kind of Resistance forces do believe that those who support Americans etc against Muslims are infidels/apostates, I used this word sarcastically.

[quote]
As much as Musharraf/PPP are responsible so is Taliban/TTP and AlQaida for all this terrorizing of nation.
[/quote]

I agree with you, but who gave the suicide terrorists the chance to attack us? We hadn't seen any such attacks until Musharraf took bribes from Americans and threw us into this hell of terrorism.