Dr AQ

[Shak]

What are you peoples’ view on him?

I used to like him but his recent statements and a bit of digging I am not so sure.

I do not think he deserves ALL the credit for the Nuclear Program. What do people think of allegations that he took credit for a lot of work he did not do?

Views?

[sweefs]

Re: Dr AQ

dr AQ TEEHEEEHEHEEEHE.

[Shak]

Re: Dr AQ

Hey this section of GS is way past your intellect.

[sweefs]

Re: Dr AQ

wuts a PTI omgz help me

[STA]

Re: Dr AQ

@sweet.i.f

dr AQ TEEHEEEHEHEEEHE.

He is national hero. :nono: haa haa hoo

[sweefs]

Re: Dr AQ

you didn't get it, STA :(

[STA]

Re: Dr AQ

please explain

[Doppleganger]

Re: Dr AQ

Iss ka lagta hai permanently dimaag charnay challa giya hai. kam az kam hoodhboy ka dimag waqtan fuwaqtan wapis bhee aa jaata hai apne hum zulf kay paas..!

[EyEsOnSkY]

Re: Dr AQ

Keep him lock in high security as mushraff did coz he is our national treasure.

[chacha_Ghalib]

Re: Dr AQ

I was thinking of opening a thread on this topic the other day. :k:

I think he is a perfect example of the personality cult prevalent in Pakistan. We like to have our heroes and our villians. Our heroes can do no wrong and our villians can do no right. If we find out that our hero is accused of doing something wrong, well then it’s a sazish of yahood-o-hanood-o-nasaara because a ‘real’ muslim can’t do something like that much less a real muslim hero.

His contribution to the nuclear program, while important, was only a fraction of the overall project. Yet, in general public’s eyes, he might have put the whole bomb together in his garage. His contribution to the missile program is even less significant.

He is a jealous man who thinks too highly of himself and can not share praise with anyone. The guy who put the whole country at risk due to his underground nuclear prolifration network. He is NOT a scientist, nor the father of Pakistan’s bomb, nor for that matter the most important person involved in the atomic weapons program. A blatant liar and very annoying at that because of constant self admiration. People who make real contributions don’t need to constantly harp on about them. People such as Dr. Samar Mubarakmand, who, despite making way more of a contribution to the atomic program, remained unknown during his tenure at the PAEC.

See the next post for a lecture Dr. Samar Mubarakmand gave after the 1998 tests.

[chacha_Ghalib]

Re: Dr AQ

The following link has the transcript of an interview that Dr. Samar Mubarakmand gave to Hamid Mir. If you scroll down a little, there is also a lecture that Dr. Samar gave right after the tests on November 30, 1998. This lecture outlines the history of Pakistan’s atomic energy program.

Dr. Samar Mubarakmand’s Interview with Geo TV

From the interview:

**Hamid Mir: Dr. Sahib, after listening to your talk, a question would have come up in the minds of many viewers and the question is very genuine, that question I put in front of you, if the 1983 cold test was conducted by Dr. Samar Mubarakmand, if the atomic tests of 28th May 1998 were also conducted by Dr. Samar Mubarakmand, so then what did Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan do?
**Samar: Look I have told you very clearly……

Hamid Mir: No, what was his role then?
Samar: His role was also of importance. We had designed the atomic bomb and manufactured it, we needed fuel for that, you can take the example that you have manufactured a motorcar for which we need petrol, so the fuel is enriched uranium, and Dr. Qadeer Khan had a very competent team of scientists, and most of them had gone there from the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission, and Dr. Qadeer was the administrator of this team in Kahuta. And this team at Kahuta developed and installed the facilities, which are necessary for the enrichment of uranium. So this is also one very important link in 15-20 equally important links needed for building an atomic bomb. So uranium itself is explored, refined and transformed into gaseous form by the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission and then this gaseous uranium goes to Kahuta where it is enriched which is also a difficult job and which is accomplished by the scientists of Kahuta, and there is a very big team of 10-12000 people who are working there, and after the uranium has been enriched, it is handed back to the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission where it is converted into metal and then used as fuel in a bomb, which is also developed by PAEC.

[chacha_Ghalib]

Re: Dr AQ

For those who don't want to read the whole interview or the lecture:

The bomb making process, according to Dr. Samar, includes:

1. Uranium is explored, mined, refined and transformed into uranium hexafluride. 10, 000 tons of uranium ore is needed to make one bomb.
2. Uranium hexafluride is then enriched to weapons grade.
3. This weapons grade uranium is then converted back to metal and given the right shape to be used in a bomb.
4. Design the bomb. Design the explosives that will set it off and give them the right shape. Ensure simultaneity of explosives located on different parts of the bomb. Design a trigger mechanism.
5. Design a facility to test the bomb. Make provisions to gather all the data from detonation within a micro-second.

This is a very very brief summary of the whole process.

If you read the lecture that Dr. Samar gave, you'd see how manpower intensive and research oriented the whole process was. By the time AQ arrived, Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC) had done a lot of the ground work in terms of manpower developement, research and facility setup.

AQ was only involved with enrichment of uranium hexafluride and had a team of 10-12,000 people working in Kahuta. Therefore, his role was important but a minor one in the overall scheme of things.

[ajazali]

Re: Dr AQ

@chacha_Ghalib

I was thinking of opening a thread on this topic the other day. :k:

I think he is a perfect example of the personality cult prevalent in Pakistan. We like to have our heroes and our villians. Our heroes can do no wrong and our villians can do no right. If we find out that our hero is accused of doing something wrong, well then it’s a sazish of yahood-o-hanood-o-nasaara because a ‘real’ muslim can’t do something like that much less a real muslim hero.

His contribution to the nuclear program, while important, was only a fraction of the overall project. Yet, in general public’s eyes, he might have put the whole bomb together in his garage. His contribution to the missile program is even less significant.

He is a jealous man who thinks too highly of himself and can not share praise with anyone. The guy who put the whole country at risk due to his underground nuclear prolifration network. He is NOT a scientist, nor the father of Pakistan’s bomb, nor for that matter the most important person involved in the atomic weapons program. A blatant liar and very annoying at that because of constant self admiration. People who make real contributions don’t need to constantly harp on about them. People such as Dr. Samar Mubarakmand, who, despite making way more of a contribution to the atomic program, remained unknown during his tenure at the PAEC.

See the next post for a lecture Dr. Samar Mubarakmand gave after the 1998 tests.

We are already experts in turning our heroes into villains. First, we exaggerate personalities as heroes then call them garbage. its problem with us not with personalities which we make heroes.
Some personal characteristics are so pervasive among scientists that they appear to be essential for scientific success. I don’t understand what will you people lose if you spare dr AQ and keep from your damn criticism.

[kaka_in_usa]

Re: Dr AQ

**A very related article recently published on dailytimes.

COMMENT : Is A Q Khan really the father of Pakistan’s nuclear programme? — Yasser Latif Hamdani**

Why or how a metallurgist like Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan came to be known as the father of our bomb. What was his role essentially in nuclear weapons production?

Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan is our self-styled ‘Baba-e-Bum’ and ‘Mohsin-e-Pak’. His extraordinary claim as a nuclear scientist is accepted carte blanche by the youth from the middle classes. Someone has to tell the truth some time. Dr Khan is neither a nuclear scientist nor the father of our nuclear programme. He is however by his own admission a traitor who sold nuclear secrets to various countries of the world, bringing infamy to Pakistan.

What is a nuclear scientist? The father of the US atomic bomb (and therefore atomic bomb in general) was J Oppenheimer, a theoretical physicist. The father of the Indian nuclear programme, Dr Homi Jehangir Bhabha was also a physicist. How is it then that metallurgist like Dr A Q Khan has come to be known as the father of Pakistan’s nuclear programme or nuclear bomb? Truth be told there are only two people that can be considered pioneers in nuclear programme related research in Pakistan. First is Dr Munir Ahmad Khan of the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC) who was the real hero of 1998’s nuclear tests and who detonated Chaghi II, a plutonium device, which was much stronger than the uranium devices of Chaghi I. The second person is someone whose contribution to human understanding in Physics is so much more fundamental and greater than any of Pakistan’s other scientists, that to even associate him with a weapons’ programme is to belittle him. He is Dr Abdus Salam who was instrumental in setting up the PAEC.

That brings us back to the question as to why or how a metallurgist like Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan came to be known as the father of our bomb. What was his role essentially in nuclear weapons production? He was responsible for uranium enrichment, which is in simple terms a separation of U235 isotope from natural uranium, which is mostly U238 isotope. It may also be pointed out that P239 and P241 are also fissile materials that can be used. To oversee uranium enrichment is no doubt an important administrative task. Equally important is to create secure facilities for depleted uranium i.e. U238 isotope left as residue after enrichment. However, could this be enough to declare Dr Khan a nuclear scientist or the father of our nuclear programme? Let me reframe the question: could an aircraft fueller on airport be called the pilot of the aircraft he fuels? This takes nothing away from the importance of the fueller but just as a fueller is not a pilot, Dr Khan is neither a nuclear scientist nor the father of Pakistan’s nuclear bomb.

Doubtless, the job of uranium enrichment is a critical one and requires centrifuges and what not. Did Dr Khan design the centrifuges? No. Pakistan uses gas centrifuge design perfected by URENCO group of Netherlands. Let us not get into where or how we got that. Long story short, the only real job that Dr Khan had — if you think about it — was to securely produce and store enriched uranium as well as depleted uranium. We all know how well Dr Khan did that. Indeed one could say that academically Dr A Q was overqualified to do that job, being a PhD in metallurgy etc. The requisite qualification i.e. honesty and integrity was found utterly lacking in Mohsin-e-Pak, by his own admission.

The deification of A Q Khan as a national hero is the result of an unthinking and unscientific mindset that is all prevalent in a decadent and declining but paradoxically self-righteous society that we have become. Dr Khan himself is hardly a scientific mind. No number of doctoral degrees can a scientific mind make. The central principles of science are testability and falsifi-ability. It is an undertaking of empiricism as the central determinant of facts, not truth. How does one call a person like Dr Khan, who believes that there was some holy baba in Bhopal who could travel between Bhopal and Delhi in a second by the grace of god, a scientific mind? No wonder Dr Khan admires Agha Waqar and his water car. It would be interesting to find out if Dr Khan advised Agha Waqar recently, on Hamid Mir’s show, to refer to free energy and resonance as a defence for his utterly unscientific hogwash packaged as the ‘water-kit’.

Even Dr Khan’s general claims fail the test. In his now infamous interview with Dr Aamir Liaqat Hussain, he declared that he was proud of Bhopal because it had neither produced a Qadiani nor a traitor. This itself is empirically untrue. In so far as Bhopali Qadianis are concerned, Obaidullah Aleem, a well respected Pakistani poet, was born in Bhopal and was an Ahmedi by faith as was his Bhopali family. To disprove the claim that Bhopal has never produced a traitor, what do you call a person who puts up Pakistan’s nuclear assets for sale on the international black market?

Finally, the Indian Supreme Court’s judgment on Ajmal Kasab has a poignant footnote on Mr Jinnah’s deep emotional connection to Mumbai and Taj Mahal Hotel (the scene of Kasab’s massacre), which ends with the Honourable Justices wondering what Mr. Jinnah would have thought of Mumbai attacks. One wonders what he would have thought of Dr A Q Khan, a shameless careerist by any standards, being promoted as a national hero next to a man of towering integrity that Jinnah was? He was lucky to have died when he did.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

[kakaballi]

Re: Dr AQ

^ Not a great fan of AQ Khan but this article is over-zealous as well. It starts with...

"***Why or how a metallurgist like Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan came to be known as the father of our bomb....."

***I am curious about this question too but was disappointed since the answer given is ironic and self-depreciating:

"..The deification of A Q Khan as a national hero is the result of an unthinking and unscientific mindset that is all prevalent in a decadent and declining but paradoxically self-righteous society that we have become...."

No explanation given as to how he was given the public stature that he has enjoyed over the years. I personally think that Zia-ul-Haq did give him much more prominence than he deserved for political and security reasons. The 'real heros' of our program largely remained out of public sight and scrutiny. While most of the attention surrounded AQ Khan, other scientists' work was secluded and secured. I do not have much evidence on this and this is a personal feeling but this is how many important projects of national security work around the world. They prop up a pseudo-hero and hide the more important ones. We cannot really blame AQ Khan if that is true.

[Decent_6Chora]

Re: Dr AQ

so now he is losing all the credit that he earned as scientist because of his political statements? perhaps because he did not join PTI? I knew it will come to this.

No person in sane mind can think that there was only one father of Pakistan's bomb. There were many but you always have to select one face to represent them all. It was perhaps Pakistan's strategy for him to be the public face of Nuclear program. In addition to his scientific tasks he was perhaps given the task of bragging, threatening and trading. He is no different than any other Pakistani. We always go a bit too far when we get bragging rights.

In addition to that, I personally feel that It was Nawaz Sharif's failure (in addition to their own) when Pakistan's top scientists washed their dirty laundry in front of the world just a week after Nuclear test.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Dr AQ

I think he had an important role, but maybe he was not the real man. I dont think any government can risk bringing to limelight the real heros of this field, as we are recently seeing what is happening to the Iranian scientists.

[Shak]

Re: Dr AQ

[QUOTE]
so now he is losing all the credit that he earned as scientist because of his political statements? perhaps because he did not join PTI? I knew it will come to this.
[/QUOTE]

Where has anyone said this unless I am mistaken? I support PTI and me doubting him has nothing to do with PTI.

Noone is taking away anything he has achieved, however he took a lot of credit for the works that others did.

[ajazali]

Re: Dr AQ

@Decent_6Chora

**so now he is losing all the credit that he earned as scientist because of his political statements? perhaps because he did not join PTI? I knew it will come to this.

**No person in sane mind can think that there was only one father of Pakistan's bomb. There were many but you always have to select one face to represent them all. It was perhaps Pakistan's strategy for him to be the public face of Nuclear program. In addition to his scientific tasks he was perhaps given the task of bragging, threatening and trading. He is no different than any other Pakistani. We always go a bit too far when we get bragging rights.

In addition to that, I personally feel that It was Nawaz Sharif's failure (in addition to their own) when Pakistan's top scientists washed their dirty laundry in front of the world just a week after Nuclear test.

will you and other people honour AQ khan if he joins PTI?

[Decent_6Chora]

Re: Dr AQ

Where has anyone said this unless I am mistaken? I support PTI and me doubting him has nothing to do with PTI.

Noone is taking away anything he has achieved, however he took a lot of credit for the works that others did.

perhaps not you but I am ticked off in general about change of heart of vivid PTI supporters after AQ refused to join PTI.

Yes he has taken credit for things he has not done too. There are no two ways about it but what I am saying that that might just be a Govt/Official policy over the years. You know keeping him as the front-man.