Dowry for your kids

Lifestyle Parenting, Household Affairs and Cuisine corner
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Re: Dowry for your kids

cherryontop - what you are referring to was the Haq Mehr. Ali (RA) did not have anything to give to Fatima (AS) for the wedding. All he had was his horse and armour. The Prophet SAW told him that a soldier needs his horse and to sell his armour - which he did to Uthman (RA) for I think around 400-500 dirhams. This money was the haq mehr stated in the nikkah.

The gifts that Prophet Muhammad SAW did give to his daughter were actual items. What from I learned, they were:
- two Yemini Sheets
- a silver bracelet
- some matresses
- a blanket
- a pillow
- a cup
- a pitcher

There could be more items but I forgot, and maybe some scholars differ in the items. . The fact is that there were items given by the Prophet SAW to Fatima RA.

A lot of people I know call this Jahiz e Fatima, and they use the value of these items in today's times to determine how much to give to their daughter. One of my alima friends had a wedding gift according to this.

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Re: Dowry for your kids

Afshi - as the eldest I do and I always will because I am working and I can. AH I also have kids, inlaws and spouse that understands that responsiblity. But one of biggest reason for working is to support my parents through their retirement. They never said no to me when it came to financial matters and iA I never will too.

I guess it's about balance but parents think differently.

I know aging parents that have never spent and dime on their children, cut corners on their education and weddings etc but plan to give them a LARGE inheritance.

I know aging parents like mines that given a bit more than they should have at the time and could have used it for investment so they have some cushion for retirement.

I know others that have collected dowry from the minute the child was born and then never bothered to ask whether they can help financially after that.

I also know parents that swoop in and try to give lavish gifts to their daughters after marriage like "oh you need the basement finished, here the money do it" without consulting their damad which causes all sort of tension.

(never thought this thread would make 8 pages :) )

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Re: Dowry for your kids

Lol.

May Allah bless all our parents and grant them good health and long life on Islam. Ameen

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Re: Dowry for your kids

Sum Ameen Afshi

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Be it working class or middle class, when it comes to your childern, it is not easier to say that you can't afford the best especially when you are living a in a deeply conformed society. I really think you lose the whole seriousness and complexities of this issue when you shrug your shoulders with 'give what you can afford' justification because normally this justification comes from people who are indeed in a position to afford better or shall I say standard desi wedding 'gifts'. No one here is suggesting that give the bride away in her undergarments or you should not recieve gifts from the guests, my issue is why the dowry system is suddenly branded as 'gift' and gloss it up with saying that parents do it out of their love, when really, parents go through all sorts stress and obstacles to be able to afford the usual luxuary items you'd expect in traditional desi jahaiz. I don't see anything comforting in that.
[/QUOTE]

This
In our society when only 1% parents can afford to give their kids what ever they want . And for the rest it's a social norm which have to be full filled
Whether they can afford it or not.
I think it should be totally banned in pakistan whether some one can afford it or not.

I always think of this drama a representation of what dowry do to ppl in our society

Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3twn22b0ax4

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Re: Dowry for your kids

No Afshi, that's not correct. Yes the armor was sold but only some of the proceeds were used as haq mehr. The remaining proceeds were used to buy the above mentioned items. I did my college thesis on Women's Rights during the times of the Prophet (p.b.u.h) and I did extensive research on this issue. I also emailed several well known scholars regarding womens' issues and this was one of the issues I inquired about. They all told me that everything that was given to Hazrat Fatima was from the proceeds of Hazrat Ali's armor and there is absolutely no concept of dowry in Islam. Also, I have never read or heard of using the value of those items to calculate a girl's dowry but yes it is very common to use mehr-e-Fatimi to determine the amount of mehr owed to a bride (after adjusting for inflation).

Anyhow, the notion of dowry (jahaiz) is purely a cultural practice. Whether you want to engage in this practice, is entirely up to you but it has absolutely nothing to do with religion so people should really not bring religion into this.

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Re: Dowry for your kids

I don't think there is any confusion here on jahaiz or gifts. We all technically know when jahaiz is jahaiz and when its a gift.

Giving a present to your daughter when she gets married is sunnah and completely allowed. If you give a few suits she can wear to her first few parties as a newly wed bride, some gold...fine. I took some clothes and jewelry...things that had sentimental value for me.

Its when you start going over the top with the cars, the mandatory furniture sets, the appliances, etc etc etc...is when you know this is now dowry. There is absolutely NO reason for gold coins to be given out, multiple suits to people you will never see again, watches to all of the men, no no no.

When you start giving extravagant gifts to two capable people who can easily make their own living just to save face or keep a rishta or keep your daughter's izzat in her susraal...is when you need to stop and take a look at what you're really doing for your daughter. Is this the kind of maahol you want to send her in?

I don't ever want to give my daughter dowry...I am giving HER to someone...there's nothing more valuable than that. Inshallah if I have a daughter...she will be all anyone will ever need.

The best marriages I know of had the most simple beginnings and that's what I want for her.

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Well then, thanks cherryontop for clearing it up. :)

May Allah SWT forgive me for my mistakes. Mods - please delete my post. Thanks.

Reha - your last statement couldn't have been more true. . I should know.

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Re: Dowry for your kids

I'm not a regular poster neither did I go through the entire thread so sorry if this issue has been resolved already, but I would like to bring in a diff perspective. Firstly, no I will not give my kids dowry. And yes, I can afford it. The reason:
to improve the general society in which I will leave my kids when I die, to better their mindset about the worth of an individual. How does my giving or not giving jahaiz affect society or future generations or even our next door neighbors?
It's like the issue if 4 marriages. If the guy wants, can afford, and has permission from previous wife, yup he can totally go ahead. It's sunnat just like jahaiz!!!! Woohoo! Now let's say my kids friend, named babloo, had 4 moms. He loves it! My kid comes home to ask me why babloo has 4 mummies to play with and I only got one :((? I explain babloo's unque situation to my kid as diligently as I can. If I was feeling extra desi that day, I would work in how our way us superior cuz we have a better background and abu loves you mom only. On the other side, bablu's moms explain to him how the family is superior cuz they have the heart to share the hubby and all live in harmony etc. Plus, we were rich enough to afford 4 wives!!!! Having learned all that our kids do from the media about rich ppl being better, bablu makes sure to share this info with my kid in school the next day. Now my kid has conflicting info in his head, and asks me if you have to be rich to have four wives? Well, yes. Ami, is bablu's family more rich than we are? Well, yes but it's not important cuz love is what matters. Well now guess what, despite the fact that 1 vs 4 marriages aren't the only way of showing off wealth, that's the impression the two khandans will pass on to bablu and my kid. And when both grow up, both will, in the back of their mind, think that ultimate success culminates in 4 marriages.
Similarly, in our society, when young girls (and their future MIL) see thier friends, cousins, neighbors get large "gift packages" from parents, they long for the same. Once you know your little princess (and her MIL) will be comparing her jahaiz package to her more fortunate counterparts, you will take out any amount of loan to fulfill this silly little wish. So, in order to get rid of the whole concept, the responsibility of minimizing and simplifying weddings falls upon the ones who CAN afford it. Tge ultimate solution would be if the elite stop goving jahaiz altogether. What separates gift from jahaiz? Honestly, I think it's the quantity really. You can gift a car or plot. But if you do, it should be the ONLY item. If u r super duper rich, give an island! But then give only that one item. The whole idea of that list of things, is what jahaiz is to me. So, when a less fortunate family wants to give, it's just one thing to worry about and they will give what they can afford. It might be a designer outfit. Tge first and only that girl might ever get. And that's awesome! She will be happy to wear it to every single dawat for the next month. If you gave an island, you better have provided the education for that girl to have a job and enough earnings of her own to buy her own damn dawat outfits.

Sorry it's long, but I like to be descriptive so I don't have to repeat the same point in 5 posts...that's the biggest reason I don't often get to the end of threads.

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Re: Dowry for your kids

:k: … its a gift… a positive way of showing off /or shutting up the other party…
…

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Re: Dowry for your kids

Wow after readin this i had to contribute..... From my understanding Barri is given by the guys side and jahaiz by the girls...I'm getting married soon and no way will i be taking anything with me unless its not for me...no gifts for no inlaws. My parents are giving their daughter who they have brought up and educated, with this upbringing Inshallah i'll be able to be a good daughter inlaw, with the education Mashallah I have a good job that will fund my futhure with my husbands. Dowrey/jahaiz has always had a bad stink about it, specially when it is demanded. Why parents feel the need to give their daughters utensils and funiture etc etc is beyond me (seriously) what don't the inlaws have furniture, do they not have bed linen.... If my dil brought these items into my house i'd feel embarressed.
Every girl needs the basics when getting married such as some clothes/ basic jewellery/make up and personal items. Its all very well saying that the inlaws will provide but like me if your marrying into a family you don't knw that well it will take time before you settle in so ur inlaws giving ur personal items is too much in some cases.

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Re: Dowry for your kids

:smiley: And that leads me to another thread idea!

Waisey, thank you jee :sheen:! planning to go to Dallas to pay a visit to khatti’s home soon