Who said anything about sil? And for dil I said, her parents will give her gifts too aka dowry.
To each their own..I don't have a daughter yet but when n if I do, my gift to her will be education, manners, and the upbringing. I don't think I will have extra money to buy her jewels because I won't be saving for it..I would rather take her on a world tour n umrah/hajj with that money than keep it in bank for gold n clothes as a gift.
She can save herself if she likes n buy whatever she wants!
And desis will never get rid of dowry no matter what we say or do :)
Why isn't your son as old as my daughters? :(
We need more moms of sons like you all seriously.
But then again, a lot of parents these days like to load their daughters thinking they are creating security for them, or for "status."
can ppl pls stop insulting a parents happiness in gift giving to its own child by calling it dowry.
dowry has negetive feelings associated with it… which stems from parents asking for absurd things like plots and houses and cars in marriage from parents of a girl. this asking for things is a dowry.
my in laws said a clear cut NO when my folks asked if they had any maangein. it was ofcourse understood that there will be no exchange of jahez cuz its nto done in either of our families.
but my parents had also collected a few things for me to give to me on my wedding day, including clothes , jewellary etc. heck i even got some kitchen stuff.
my in laws did not ask for it. my parents could affford it thus gave it. my in laws would have been in NO place to say no to my folks if they wanted to give their daughter things. i woulda taken major offence to that.
in teh same way.. if my dil’s parents wanna give her whatever… they can very well do so. its for her. not for me. i have no right to say no.
in my opinion.. its only bad if the guy’s side says ‘no’ but really mean hell yes
if a marriage can take place without the girl’s parents having any kinda burden of HAVING to put together jahez … then there really is no issue… whatever the girl DOES get from her folks is just a bonus.
honestly… you dont stop being your parents children just cuz u get married… i cant imagine NOT buying my children something no matter HOW old tehy get. im all for teach them how to get stuff on their own but jeez… they are still afterall our kids.
oh and something funny happened a few weeks ago… at this wedding… the mil of the girl is sitting bashing the girl’s side.. why?
cuz she didnt bring anything of value to the household (as in kitchen supplies etc).
one aunty couldnt take it anymore and goes 'aap nay tho jahez ko mana kerdiya tha na.. tho phir? ’
the mil goes array yeh tho sub kehthay hai.. in logo nay tho such hi maan liya
think the thread title is misleading.. or we are misunderstanding it
everyone is up for gift giving.
now if teh poster meant dowry in the negetive form (expecting stuff from the girl's side).. then i dont think anyone here would answer in teh positive...
You will be surprised khawateen. Many people are OK with "dowry" which they don't believe are gifts. Gifts are gifts, and dowry is something they feel they are obligated to give to ensure respect and security for their daughters.
We buy stuff for our kids.There is no limit as to when we have to stop as parents.Then why does it become a social evil if we want to get them something at the time they are getting married??Its great if they can afford all the wedding expenses and a new home expense on their own,but when the time comes I would love to get wedding gifts for my kids and would cherish it if they accept it.
I am not talking about lakhon ke joray and 100 tolay sona and joray for the extended family in the groom's family,a car to take them around town and the furniture for the entire home.These things do not constitute 'gifts'..!
If I have to give material stuff to anyone just to make them happy,those people are not worth it and I really really hope my kids never end up with such superficial people as life partners,Inshallah.
You will be surprised khawateen. Many people are OK with "dowry" which they don't believe are gifts. Gifts are gifts, and dowry is something they feel they are obligated to give to ensure respect and security for their daughters.
then its the fault of teh parents of the girl .. lets not blame teh guy's family eh? if you think your daughter is nto worth much that you need to supplement her with gifts for the in laws khandaan and the guy himself.. then shame on you.
oh i plan on giving stuff to my son too on his wedding day ... there shall be no difference between the son and daughter.
then its the fault of teh parents of the girl .. lets not blame teh guy's family eh? if you think your daughter is nto worth much that you need to supplement her with gifts for the in laws khandaan and the guy himself.. then shame on you.
oh i plan on giving stuff to my son too on his wedding day ... there shall be no difference between the son and daughter.
Yes, and that is exactly what I said in my earlier posted where I quoted GTG. It's a vicious cycle.
its a must. on one hand you are saying you dont want jahez.. lets count clothes and jewellary has jahez too for a min
so no jahez. meaning the girl goes to the in laws house with not even a pin. just the clothes on her back
now if there were no barri either.. what exactly is the girl to wear once she gets outta teh barat outfit?
in my family... we do a whole lot for a barri cuz our understanding is... the girl is our responsibility once she signs the nikah papers. she MUST have everything to start her life at the in laws house. so our barri even includes a nightwear.. daywear..combs.. toothbrush etc. now its changed a whole lot with girls becoming more hands on where it concerns them plus couples wanting to do stuff together from teh get go... so teh toothbrush etc has been dropped .. :D but u guys get the pic
fi teh in laws are saying aap ki beti ab humari hui... well u better put money where your mouth is and show it.
this actually happened to a friend of mine .. the in laws said we wont no jahez at all.. its not done in our family.
so the girl's family did jack.. nothing other than jewellary for barat and the barat outfit. im not kidding you. NOTHING.
so the girl gets to the in laws house and asks for clothes to change into it. the mil gave her a blank look --- the girl had to wear her nand's clothes for the night and her chappals.
the couple went out first thing in the morning to buy her everything.
which brings me back to jahez ko manna sub kerthay hai... such nahi samajh na.
my thinking on this would be.. if i am saying to my future dil .. do not bring anything witn you... i dont want jahez... then you can bet your ass taht im gonna have my son make sure she has everything she needs to start her life in our home (or his home whichever) .. ahead of time. rest they can shop together etc.
I have to tell you that it is a lot better in Pakistan. I do see a lot of effort going into barri preps. In India, however, major expenses for the bride AND groom are dumped on girls' parents, even in muslim homes. Again, there are some cultures that have moved past all this and recognize the need for change. So you'll many families now that pool into all the events and other than clothes and accessories, there's no talk or expectation of cars or furnishings or appliances. Still, that percentage is little.
it IS getting a lot better in pak... we had 2 weddings this past winter in karachi. only clothes and personal items for both guy and girl. nothing more. no relative got anything either.
what they DID give to their children (both sets of parents) was cash. to go start their lives. they could put it towards a honeymoon... buying stuff for their new home (both guys had places of their own already) .. etc.
it was SO refreshing to see rather than draping shawl after shawl on this or that relative or the passing out of gold ringsa nd earrings to taya kay bateejay ki nani ki sali as if they were worth channay!
Its time we Pakistanis go a couple of step closer to Islam and learn that weddings are not supposed to be showering the new bride with super expensive jewels and closet full fancy clothes. You really don't these things to start a new happy life. Honestly such kind of mentality makes life so much harder for people who just want to get their Nikkah done, become husband and wife and get on with their married life. Parents would rather have their son/daughter cross 30 mark, than let go of the idea collecting enough funds/material to buy 'gifts' or prepare an outstanding barri. These things are anything but essential. And really when someone says no bari or jahaiz, they don't mean that you should see off the bride in her undergarments...
so then they should make up a list of stuff they will give/ want to receive as jahez? and what they THINK jahez is just incase there is a misunderstanding between gift and jahez?
pls.. its all jahez. if you are saying no to it.. you are saying no to all. you cant say .. oh but plz do send her with this and this and this.. rest we will take care of.
if she comes with stuff.. great.. if she dont.. it shouldnt be like hell broke loose.. it should be ok.. we have it covered.
secondly...if parents are not marrying off their kids just cuz they dont have the money to buy expesnive jewels etc.. then they are the ones that have something wrong with them.. not someone who CAN give their kids lots on their wedding day. its almost like saying.. we shouldnt spend money on big weddings cuz it makes it harder for ppl who cant have big weddings to wed their kids.
each to their own. ppl just need to grow a backbone.. if u cant afford it.. big deal. if u can, good for you.
its only bad when there is an expectation of something .
my in laws couldnt afford a whole lot. they had to do 2 weddings in 4 months . they didnt ask their son nor their daughter to shush it until they could afford big weddings. nopes. my valima was a very small and simple affair. my outfits were simple too.
same way.. my nand's barat wasnt so huge either. nor was her trousseau. she didnt get much.
point is.. my in laws did whatever they could do. not cuz it was expected of them. not according to what society thought they should or how tehy should do it ... we have some very hi fi ppl in our social circle.. but my in laws didnt think jack of em.. all they cared bout was.. shaadi izzat se hojaye. and that they bring home their bahu.. and send off their daughter ..
my parents on the other hand mashallah are well off.. my barat was very diff from my valima. but neither set of parents ever felt like they had to put on a show just to please the otehr party. they did wahtever they wanted to according to what they thought and felt was right.
and all this comes from confidence in one self and your kids.
if you dont have any of this... you are the only one to blame. not society. not rules. just you.
Thats very wonderful to hear, but perhaps you need to stop taking it so personally. You almost make it seem like as if we're pointing fingers at your family and household traditions thus making you come up with all these clarifications.
The world goes lot beyond the four walls of our house. It makes no difference whatsoever to that dark bitter reality of South Asian community if one person decides to not call a problem a problem because life is all so rosy and calculated in families.... and shove the blame on people who are victims of these bogus traditions. It is indeed a complex issue and you cannot have one single opinion and way of looking at it...its nice to have a discussion than pollute the toic with unnecessary hard-lines....
i wasnt taking it personally... there will be lots of opinions on this issue.. and there are.. i was merely stating my own and using an example that i know of.
it wont save the day nor will it make a diff in the life of someone goin through this very issue...
but its just proof that there are ppl making changes in traditions and the way we think....
as for the victims ... all im saying is.. you are responsible for how you are treated. have some self respect.. and treat your daughters like they are worth something.. if all parents of girls started to say what we give is upto us and you cant force us in this aspect... just maybe parents of boys would sit up and say whoa.. ok then.
i wasnt taking it personally... there will be lots of opinions on this issue.. and there are.. i was merely stating my own and using an example that i know of.
it wont save the day nor will it make a diff in the life of someone goin through this very issue...
but its just proof that there are ppl making changes in traditions and the way we think....
as for the victims ... all im saying is.. you are responsible for how you are treated. have some self respect.. a*nd treat your daughters like they are worth something.. if all parents of girls started to say what we give is upto us and you cant force us in this aspect... just maybe parents of boys would sit up and say whoa.. ok then. *
whats there to clear up? its quite simple i think.
for example.. saleema is to get married.. her in laws to be want a car in jahez as well as lots of jewellary... the parents of the girl are in a fix. they cant afford a whole lot nor do tehy want to give the in laws all that. they had only wanted to give small gifts to their girl on her wedding day but now are faced with this huge expense.
what would you do if you were saleema's folks?
i would tell the guy's family to go such on a rock. my daughter is way more valuable than being secondary to a car and jewels. and how dare you ask for anything for yourselves? whatever i give (if anything) is for my daughter to use in her house.
now im not even talking about the poor ppl that HAVE to think bout jahez. its an issue that wont go away in that sector due to ignorance (though educated ppl are guilty of this too).. but atleast the new generation is making changes and the older lot are coming along.
i could give an example but then you would say im taking it personally :)
Khawa.. My saleema isn't going to that family..bat khatam!
Honestly I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone..I m stating my opinion and what I wish would happen..it doesn't have to be my watt or highway..may Allah taala make our children saleha and may we all see them happily married with lotsa grand children. :D
you give what you can and want to give to your children and/or children in law.
That's it.
and by the time our kids (inshallah) will get married, the auntis expecting all this stuff will be long gone and in their graves and it was all of us same-minded people.
my in laws gave what they could afford to give, they didn't have to, but it was a gift - and you're not supposed to refuse a gift, right? Meanwhile, my parents are STILL giving gifts (after two and a half years of marriage) to both me and my inlaws.
It is said in Islam, giving gifts to one another increases love for one another. And I'm glad my parents and inlaws have the same mutual respect and love for one another and for me and my husband. Inshallah I pray it increases day by day. :)
you give what you can and want to give to your children and/or children in law.
That's it.
and by the time our kids (inshallah) will get married, the auntis expecting all this stuff will be long gone and in their graves and it was all of us same-minded people.
my in laws gave what they could afford to give, they didn't have to, but it was a gift - and you're not supposed to refuse a gift, right? Meanwhile, my parents are STILL giving gifts (after two and a half years of marriage) to both me and my inlaws.
It is said in Islam, giving gifts to one another increases love for one another. And I'm glad my parents and inlaws have the same mutual respect and love for one another and for me and my husband. Inshallah I pray it increases day by day. :)
