Dowery System

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21

Dr Who
so basically i have been saying over and over since my first post
individuals should be blamed for abusing a tradition
has gone haywire above your head

Sweetie if you want to discuss people misusing something then its fine by me
discuss it

Dont say its a disgusting tradition simply cause some greedy unparh ganwar parhay likhay jahil paisoon kay lalchi log cant help drooling and being greedy

Personally i think you are just here for the sake of argument and nothing else
some people tend to hold onto a point and just go on and on without seeing or understanding what others may have to say

If thats the case then i rest my case cause i made it clear in my first post
there are two paths to everything
a right path
and
a wrong path
which one is chosen depends entirely upon individuals
however we simply cant blame the destination cause some people choose to travel on the wrong path

[This message has been edited by Anchal (edited November 06, 2000).]

22

Regardless of what ever!!!

Jehaiz and bari may be different from Dowry, but all three are UnIslamic. Islam has asked the guy to give a gift to the bride in token of love and concern. Jehaiz and Bari, no matter how you look at it, create competition in the society. A rich family may pay lottsa Jehaiz, but what happens when a poor or middleclass family in the same muhalla arranges a wedding. The guys parents, even if the dont ask for Jehaiz still expect the bride to bring along something. Now if the bride comes empty handed they find it strange and there feelings towards the new mamber of the household changes since she did nt bring along anything. And in other cases the aftereffects are even worse. The bride is tormented all her life, made to work in the houshold like a servant all her life. The hubby does not love her and her life becomes a living HELL!!

It is for this reason Islam forbids Jehaiz.

23

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggthumb.gif

i agree with u Dr Who

24

Well...if groom's family DEMANDS jahaiz, or anything...thats BAD. Should be condemned, and is unacceptable. All the arguments above by Dr Who and Pari will become valid....

But when I read all you 'religious scholars' say that this is totally unislamic, I'd say "Wait a minute"..... Don't you know what our Prophet (SAWW) gave to Hazrat Bibi Fatima (RA) when she married Hazrat Ali (RA). The couple was setting up a new home and therefore the Prophet (SAWW), father of the bride, gave her basic necessaties of home, bartan etc. All of it within his means... Didn't borrow the money, nor provided a list of items by Hazrat Ali (RA)..

So when you condemn this as unreligious, hold your horses....

Anchal has a point.... You gotta protest against DEMANDS by groom's families, lalchi ppl .. blah blah... But you just can not stop a father or a mother to give gifts to their children. It is a natural instict that parents wanna make life easier for their kids. However for groom's parents to assume that such and such things MUST be given to the daughter else yeh shadi nahi ho sakti... well, this is gross...and doesn't/shouldn't happen in educated families..

Now, did I make everyone unhappy? ... LOL

Take care

Don't Blame me...
C'est La Vie :)

25

Yes Pari!!

Islam is a very logical and an understanding religion. Many a times such small things are asumed up. We may not realize what harm they are causing because there effects are long lasting and in the case of Dowry the society on whole is effected.

26

[quote]
Originally posted by Pristine:

But when I read all you 'religious scholars' say that this is totally unislamic, I'd say "Wait a minute"..... Don't you know what our Prophet (SAWW) gave to Hazrat Bibi Fatima (RA) when she married Hazrat Ali (RA). The couple was setting up a new home and therefore the Prophet (SAWW), father of the bride, gave her basic necessaties of home, bartan etc. All of it within his means... Didn't borrow the money, nor provided a list of items by Hazrat Ali (RA)..

So when you condemn this as unreligious, hold your horses....

]
[/quote]

I wanted to mention that in my first post when someone claimed it to be unislamic but i wasnt sure of the details
Thanks Pristine:)

As for Dr Who driving a car is not in Islam ..so should it be considered Unislamic
using the internet is nowhere in The Quran....so should it be considered haraam?

Ofcourse if you start stalking people on the net, becoming obssesed with nude sites and all that then it becomes bad ...
so then again my point remains

There is a difference between Use and Abuse which is not getting through to you

I think the point should be clear

27

Thanks Pristine for setting us right!! Did'nt know about it!!

This only shows that parents have been giving stuff to the bride since the earliest times. But just look what has happened in the subcontinent. Jehaiz has become a serious issue. It is no longer looked upon like a gift. People look upon it as means of competing in the society. If someone has given more Jehaiz to his bride I have to give more no matter what, warna meri muhale mein naak kat jaye gi....

Height of illetracy!!

28

[quote]
Originally posted by Dr Who?:
. If someone has given more Jehaiz to his bride I have to give more no matter what, warna meri muhale mein naak kat jaye gi....

Height of illetracy!!
[/quote]

Change starts from home
Why are you giving into what others may or may not think of you
If you consider yourself literate and a good person then start setting a new trend
educate others around you to not misuse a blessing
rathern then bitching bout blah blah blah and doing nothing bout it

29

[quote]
Originally posted by Anchal:
**
If you consider yourself literate and a good person then start setting a new trend
educate others around you to not misuse a blessing
rathern then bitching bout blah blah blah and doing nothing bout it

**
[/quote]

Traditions are not so easily changed. Imagine centuries old traditions changing in a few months. The only way we can set ourselves right is by getting educated..

So GROW UP!!!!!!!!!!!!

30

thats the problem
people dont want to change
however they love complaining bout stuff

this aint rite that aint rite

and when told to be the one to bring change then they would back out of it

Dr Who one person can bring bout change
tareekh gawa hay is baat ki

Grow up? yawnz
acha acha

31

[quote]
Originally posted by Anchal:
**

Dr Who one person can bring bout change
tareekh gawa hay is baat ki

**
[/quote]

OR woh "One Person", jumme ke jumme peda nahi hota. Such people who have the power to change century old traditions are born once after centuries..

OR neend agar aa rahi hai to jaa ke soo jao raat bohot ho gayi hai!!

32

Dr
what happened
abhi to bohat josh main aa kar logoon ko bura bhala kah rahay thay
yeah samp kyoon song gia ek dam say

Sorry but you are wrong
such people are born everyday
you dont have to be famous to bring bout change
girls getting basic education is a change
couples educated in family planning is a change

these are small changes that make a very big difference
and who brought these changes
men and women just like you and me

33

And who did I say bura bhala to???

I cant do anything if you refuse to see what kind of a tradition Jehaiz has turned into in the sub continent.

Start looking around, just because ur happy doesnt mean that everyone is happy. Lives are being ruined everyday.
The Prophet encouraged distributing gifts since it only triggered love and respect among others. But over here Jehaiz has turned into tradition, and you have to pay no matter what.

I am sick and tired of typin the same thing over and over again, cant do anything if u cant get somethin into ur thick head.

34

yawnz

35

Yawns hi karti raho!!

Its 3:30 in the morning and I am going to bed!!

Good night..

36

Its 7:39 pm in the evening and i am enjoying an episode of Friends :)

umm gnite :)
sleep tight
dont let the bed bugs bite

37

[quote]
Originally posted by Pristine:
*Don't you know what our Prophet (SAWW) gave to Hazrat Bibi Fatima (RA) when she married Hazrat Ali (RA). The couple was setting up a new home and therefore the Prophet (SAWW), father of the bride, gave her basic necessaties of home, bartan etc.
*
[/quote]

Sir jii i did not said any thing like that.plus i am not talking about few stuff which u telling me.
palay parents dia kartay thay appni khusi say kuch zaman appni bati ko.cz she is going to start her new life.ab asa nahi hotay.time badal gaya hai.ab tu jahaiz ki list hoti hai.jiss ko har haal main poora karna hota hai.
I dont think so kay Hazrat Ali kohi list mangi the..jo kuch Hazrat fatima ko dia gaya Hazrat Ali ko tu pata be nahi hoo.ka Hazrat fatima kuch lay kar a rahi haan.
AJj kaal ko barat bad main jati hai..Jahaiz ka truck larki ka ghar palay jata hai.Larki appnay susral bad main jati hai.Jahaiz palay!!

     °°°Name?°°°

If u'wll call me rose,
will i smell like that!
º¤., ¸¸,.¤º¨¨¨¤FeeAmanAllah Guysº¤., ¸¸,.¤º¨¨¨¤

38

Ohohoho!! Subah ho gayi, Chalo shoro ho jao larna!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

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39

Pari ji...

I was only commenting on the statement that "Islam forbids it". And then you only cut-and-pasted one part of my post, ignored the rest, and basically said the same thing I did.....vereeeeeeeee clever :) That when the groom's family expects/demands anything/something, that is bad, unislamic, outrageous, condemnable blah blah blah....

First define what does Islam forbids?...

[list=1]
[li] Islam DOES NOT forbid parents giving gifts to their children.[/li][li] Islam DOES NOT forbid relatives giving gifts to the new couple[/li][/list=a]

[list=1]
[li] IMO Islam DOES FORBID giving gifts which are beyond the means of the parents (concept of "israaf aur fazoolkharchi")[/li][li] IMO Islam DOES FORBID imitating others and to spend more than the means (chaddar dekh kar paoon phelanay chahiyain)[/li][li] IMO Islam DOES FORBID expectations by groom (or by bride) or their families that such and such things should be provided as gifts, unless there won't be a happy marital life [/li][li] IMO Islam DOES FORBID the groom to present a list of demands to bride's parents, bcz this comes under 'blackmail'.. [/li][/list=a]

Now that I have made my opinions clear...lets analyze the problem.

The present concept of Jahaiz was en vogue in India where daughters were given all sorts of gifts bcz in Hindu laws the daughters do not have any share in the estate of the father on his death. So the fathers used to give whatever they thought appropriate to their daughters in their lifetimes (esp. at the time of their marriage).

Now, in Islam, this is not valid, bcz Islam provides share in the estate of father to the daughter.

However, since advent of Islam in India till 1947, the Hindu and Islamic cultures had lots of mixes and, unfortunatelty, in this particular matter (dowery) the islamic culture took a lot of influence of hindus... This twisted the whole thing. Now girls are lavishly provided gifts at the time of their wedding AND also provided share in the father's estate at the time of the marriage.

During this time...another unfortunate thing happened .. and greed seeped in. Parents of eligble bachelors seemed to think of their sons as prized bulls, who need to fetch the best prize. Blah blah blah.. We all know the sad history... So, this things need to be kicked in the bud by the educated ppl.

Ta ta!

Don't Blame me...
C'est La Vie :)

40

I do agree w/ Anchal That t/ "Jahaiz" or as in english we call it " Dowry" system has been totally abused by our culture.

Let's get real here. Nowadays nobody really dares ask for " jahaiz" but still if a girl duz not bring sufficient amount of jahaiz, there are whispers as to t/ sort of family a girl has come from or did'nt t/ parents love t/ girl enough to give her " enough" jahaiz!!

Quite franly " jahaiz " has become a status symbol fed by our greed & curiosity.

When I got maried I told my Mom I did'nt want anything excessive . Just a few nice & decent clothes & Mom forced 1 gold set as a gift . People were truly surprised that sum1 who cud send thr daughter abroad to study only gave 1 gold set & colthes which cud b- counted on 1 hand!

We had a decent simple reception w/out inviting t/ whole city!! My Bari was also quite simple & decent w/out being flashy.

Moderation has become a word of t/ past & I doubt if any1 really even knows what it means! We have to mke sure ppl see our welth & are impresseed by it.

I know ppl who give 50-100 suits & all kinds of jewllery sets & proudly display thm for t/ relatives & guests @ t/ Mehndi ceremony which I think is sooooo tacky! ( Theres a diffrnce b/w/ showing few close & personal frnds & family & parrading to t/ whole audience!)

Anyway, I think t/ best gift a parent can give their child is t/ best possible education.