WANE- This is one of the few times I have seen a muslim/Pakistani talk un-emotionally and rationally about Islam. I may not wholly agree with your explanation but it makes sense from a muslim viewpoint, taken in the broader, political aspect.
Your ability to communicate should be an example to other whinos here who exhibit none of the rationality, humaneness and patience that they keep extolling about Islam, but flair up in defence at the first hint of a debate.
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*Originally posted by suroor_ca02: *
p.s plz do tell me one religion in this world which says that other believers of different faith will go to heaven?
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It is not religion that will take you to hell or heaven, it is your deeds. Care to quote any religious text that specifically states non-believers will go to hell?
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*Originally posted by soul: *
Jesus said love thy enemy, Gita says all religions are equal, Buddhism and jainism says find god within you, Moses says eye for an eye...where did any one of them nitpicked other's religions??
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Plenty of places. . I'd rather keep it to myself what I have read, as I have more important things to do in life, than bash others beliefs.
Thank you Wane for providing Soul the answer for which he was looking, and thus shutting him up. To everyone else, Islam gives people the right to question, so if someone asks a question, please if you now the answer then give it or keep quiet rather than insult the questioner for asking. Even we as muslims are supposed to question in order to learn.
People like soul and Yahudi come on here to stir you guys up. Dont give them the satisfaction for gods sakes. Give these guys the answers they are looking for and maybe they might stop thinking so negatively about Islam and know that Islam does provide the right answers to all our questions.
If you look Soul has thanked wane and said to quote 'I believe' Hopefully after asking all these questions and receiving the answers he is looking for, then he may start to believe in Islam and become a Muslim for the right reason, rather than following it blindly just because the parents are a certain religion or because its the religion that everyone else is following.
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*Originally posted by pariyon ki rani: *
Thank you Wane for providing Soul the answer for which he was looking, and thus shutting him up. To everyone else, Islam gives people the right to question, so if someone asks a question, please if you now the answer then give it or keep quiet rather than insult the questioner for asking. Even we as muslims are supposed to question in order to learn.
People like soul and Yahudi come on here to stir you guys up. Dont give them the satisfaction for gods sakes. Give these guys the answers they are looking for and maybe they might stop thinking so negatively about Islam and know that Islam does provide the right answers to all our questions.
If you look Soul has thanked wane and said to quote 'I believe' Hopefully after asking all these questions and receiving the answers he is looking for, then he may start to believe in Islam and become a Muslim for the right reason, rather than following it blindly just because the parents are a certain religion or because its the religion that everyone else is following.
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pariyon ki rani, indeed when someone seeks a genuine answer to a quesiton, it is not difficult to tell. We are taught in school about how one notes a writers tone, manner, etc, in writing something. But when answers are given, and then the questioner refuses to take an answer, and glosses over it with a remark, some people may come to think that the questioner wasnt only intent on asking for knowledge sake.
It is interesting that some people come here, make remarks how everyone thinks they are a scholar here and really are not, and then a questioner continues to ask a question that is really only relevant or better answered by a scholar. What is the point in that? This doesnt refer to "soul", but in general.
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*Originally posted by karina: *
Your ability to communicate should be an example to other whinos here who exhibit none of the rationality, humaneness and patience that they keep extolling about Islam, but flair up in defence at the first hint of a debate.
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Karina
I agree with you, there are ways to respond, just as there are ways to ask questions. certain people here are expereinced at throwing flame baits which is pretty childish, and i see ppl fall for the flame baits again and again. Personally I am not even bothered to respond to a people like that.
People like yourself have an ability to ask the toughest and most sensitive questions in a civil and sensitive manner and thus get the right types of responses from ppl who really want to help you understand.
I mean I can start quoting verses from old testament or Manu or something and put people in a catch 22 situation that either your text is messed up or you are not following it. But I would be doign so without understanding the context. It is much more complete to read understand and then discuss rather than finsing anything that could be used as a flame bait :)
it is equivalent to quoting the firts partof the kalimah " La Ilahah" which says "there is no god" rather than quoting the next part so the meaning is complete. Diff parts of the Quraan were revealed durign different situations, and are specific to that situation but things could be learned from them and they could be referred to in similar situations.
Thanks for a voice of sanity here as opposed to the senseless flame baits by some others :)
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*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
certain people here are expereinced at throwing flame baits which is pretty childish, and i see ppl fall for the flame baits again and again. Personally I am not even bothered to respond to a people like that.
I mean I can start quoting verses from old testament or Manu or something and put people in a catch 22 situation that either your text is messed up or you are not following it. But I would be doign so without understanding the context. It is much more complete to read understand and then discuss rather than finsing anything that could be used as a flame bait :)
it is equivalent to quoting the firts partof the kalimah " La Ilahah" which says "there is no god" rather than quoting the next part so the meaning is complete. Diff parts of the Quraan were revealed durign different situations, and are specific to that situation but things could be learned from them and they could be referred to in similar situations.
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Fraudz,
You're absolutely right: either one should not respond to a flame-bait, or respond with sweetness and sanity like Wane did.
As for Manu, from the little I know of his writings, they seem all out of context and totally messed up. I'm not sure even a complete reading of his works would make it better. :)
I am in complete accordance with your last line. Perhaps I should give Manu one more chance...
**Don’t they explicitely forbid moslems to seek helpers and refuge among the “kafirs”? In that case, you and ALL other moslem in the West are breaking the word and the meaning of your “holy” book!
yor allah, dislikes jews and christians, and forbid moslems to seek helpers and refuge among “them”. **
I am sorry.. i fail to see the “politeness” in the tone of all the above sentences in the post. there is a way to ask a question respectfully. enlighten me where do u think he is NOT being rude? 
suroor, oh I do not disagree with you. the post and the approach was rude and derogatory. But that is the norm with this person. I am certain this behavior would either change soon or something would be done about it otherwise.
Re: Don’t mind me asking!
actually there is one more verse we ALL are breaking, that is which says to kill the non-believers. what do you say, should we all start following it NOW ? 
^ well i am not as patient as u r fraudz. he is old enuf to know whats right n wrong. and the way he asked was wrong, n thats there is to it. if he wants civilized answer, i suggest he ask them in a civilized manner as well or shud not come to this board, period.
Re: Re: Don’t mind me asking!
That is just sick! Forgive them God, for they knoweth not what they say!
Re: Re: Re: Don't mind me asking!
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*Originally posted by karina: *
That is just sick! Forgive them God, for they knoweth not what they say!
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Take it out of context and that's what anybody's reaction would be...You need to know beforehand what was said and why it was said...That's why Muslims don't dabble in other religions...Misunderstanding might arise...
Let me give you an example...
I say:
1) I am sitting here in my house in peace.
2) I like it here and I don't like anyone messing with my peace.
3) I am a loving and peaceful man, but if someone breaks into my house, do you know what I will do?
4) I will kill the person who steps into my house. I will destroy him and as god is my witness he shall not leave here alive.
5) Unless I found out that the man is unarmed and needs my assistance and I will give him assistance to the best of my abilities and protect him.
Now, if I were soul and I hated myself, guess which line I would choose to tell others of my viciousness?
That's what every anti-Islamic site does...
Lajawab, for once you have said something intelligent which I completely agree with. :k: 
My life’s mission has been achieved…I can now die a happy man…
Re: Re: Re: Re: Don't mind me asking!
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*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
Take it out of context and that's what anybody's reaction would be...You need to know beforehand what was said and why it was said...That's why Muslims don't dabble in other religions...Misunderstanding might arise...
...
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I'm not asking for a clarification. I should have specified that I was asking forgiveness for Changez who came up with a stupid cartoon caption. Sorry if you felt I was referring to the Koran. Wane has already made the point of taking things out of context and not understanding the reasoning behind them.
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Thank you Wane for providing Soul the answer for which he was looking, and thus shutting him up.
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what kind of sick statement is this....its a debate...where is the question of shuting up and not shuting up??..child grow up!!
I appreciated whane's explaination which was rational, unemotional and realistic. I may/may not fully agree with him, but how many of you, here, can come even close to explainning the way he has??
Where has he taken GOD's name in it? doesn't that shut you and your BS up rather than me??
I have always mentained there is no god, if there is anyone who rationally explains me or debates queries without getting emotional...i have respect for him. Why shouldn't i? Rather than juvenile tantrum throwing competition that gets unleased here every now and than!!
Can't you see there is a selfish human aspect in those verses...why would god go against certain group of ppl to help certain other group?? you think he is so bais?? why should he be?? So obviously god has no role to play here!!! so who shuts up in the end?? me?? or you??
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I mean I can start quoting verses from old testament or Manu or something and put people in a catch 22 situation that either your text is messed up or you are not following it.
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First of all, what gave you an impression that i will defend any of so called holytexts... where is the question of catch 22 situation??
If one will read the entire Bible, one will find tales of ignorance, murder, sexual perversions, mass insanity, idiotic laws, and even cannibalism and human sacrifice. It staggers the imagination how anyone in his right mind could read the Bible and believe that it was written by a wise, just, and loving god. Christians have found biblical scriptures telling them to burn people at the stake, to justify slavery, to oppress and persecute others, and to kill and commit war in the name of their god.
The question is how many christians would jump in the fray to defend it??...Lo! me being one. By birth iam a mandean Christian...by choice am an atheist.
And since when did Manu smirti become a holy book of hindus?? Do i have to remind you that manu smirti is burned every yr. by hindus themselves to show their contempt for it!!
If you talking about Bhagvat Gita, go ahead...which hindu is going to defend it?? it has out lived its purpose...and all hindus will tell the same....Besides, do these hindus beleive Gita is word of God...anyone changing or challenging it would go to hell??
*heres wot i believe- The human race no longer needs these myths of old. Just as little children grow up and learn the truth about the existence of the tooth fairy, the human race needs to mature and learn the truth about the existence of god. *
again, this are my views, i am not imposing it on anyone]
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actually there is one more verse we ALL are breaking, that is which says to kill the non-believers. what do you say, should we all start following it NOW ?
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Who is stopping you?? enrol yourself in alqida and serve your god, the way he wants you to!! atleast i will have respect for you as a sincere moslem.
And while you are at it, plz bump off few of those nitwit bal thackreys, narendra modies, tagodias, immam bukharis, terrorists like bush and his croonies, pope and his heartless missionaries...i dunno if you will get paradise for helping us get rid of these scums....but i assure you of my respect.
the same book also has this
Say, 'People of the Book! come to a proposition which is the same for us and you - that we should worship none but Allah and not associate any partners with Him and not take one another as lords besides Allah.' If they turn away, say, 'Bear witness that we are Muslims.'(Surah Al 'Imran: 64)
Today all good things have been made halal for you. And the food of those given the Book is also halal for you and your food is halal for them. So are chaste women from among the muminun and chaste women of those given the Book before you, once you have given them their dowries in marriage, not in fornication or taking them as lovers. But as for anyone who rejects iman, his actions will come to nothing and in the akhira he will be among the losers. (Surat al-Ma'ida: 5)
Among the people of the Book there are some who have iman in Allah and in what has been sent down to you and what was sent down to them, and who are humble before Allah. They do not sell Allah's Signs for a paltry price. Such people will have their reward with their Lord. And Allah is swift at reckoning. (Surah Al 'Imran: 199)
Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and fair admonition, and argue with them in the kindest way. Your Lord knows best who is misguided from His way. And He knows best who are guided. (Surat an-Nahl: 125)
...You will find the people most affectionate to those who have iman are those who say, 'We are Christians.' That is because some of them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant. (Surat al-Ma'ida: 82)
Only argue with the People of the Book in the kindest way - except in the case of those of them who do wrong - saying, 'We have iman in what has been sent down to us and what was sent down to you. Our God and your God are one and we submit to Him.'(Surat al-'Ankabut: 46)
...There is a community among the People of the Book who are upright. They recite Allah's Signs throughout the night, and they prostrate. They have iman in Allah and the Last Day, and enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and compete in doing good. They are among the salihun. You will not be denied the reward for any good thing you do. Allah knows those who have taqwa. (Surah Al 'Imran: 113-115)
Those with iman, those who are Jews, and the Christians and Sabaeans, all who have iman in Allah and the Last Day and act rightly, will have their reward with their Lord. They will feel no fear and will know no sorrow. (Surat al-Baqara: 62)
but i've never seen you discussing this. wonder why.
as for your opinion about religion, I'm sure thats an opinion, but its exactly that. no less, no more.
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Can't you see there is a selfish human aspect in those verses...why would god go against certain group of ppl to help certain other group?? you think he is so bais?? why should he be?? So obviously god has no role to play here!!! so who shuts up in the end?? me?? or you??
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okay you tell me. why shouldnt He have bias towards a certain group? if Islam is the most direct path to Allah, why should He wish more people were on that path?
I’d be interested in your opinions if you substantiated them with facts. Do tell me where lie those tales. From an authentic source please. Not that Im saying it might not exist.
Your views (as I understand them: as human thought evolves it will inevitably see that God was a conveniece for our wonder years..just like the fiction of the tooth fairy..correct me if im wrong) have, for centuries, been a pipe dream of the athiest/materialistic philosopher. In these centuries, even though mankind has made strides culturally, scientifically, ethically, philosophically.. even though rational thought has progressed far, far beyond what it used to be, we are not any closer to that pipe dream.
Unless you can give me some scientific basis from unquestionable sources (pbs/usnews equivalent), for the suggestion that as mankind ‘grows’ it tends to realise the truth as you see it, I’m afraid you’re barking up a factually incorrect tree.
The same Yahood were previously considered to be "most favourite nation" by the same God of muslims. Then perhaps the circumstances changed and so God changed the policy and teaches the muslims not to make friends among them.
I think that since such kind of teachings are dependent on "changed circumstances" so these teachings should not be considered to be the "absolute teachings" or that this kind of teachings are applicable for all times to come.
This also shows that God's policies are also not absolute or permanent. They can change over time.