Donating organs

Hangout GupShup Cafe
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Rare wrote>> Let me repeat it..."It is my right, and to me and my beliefs it is unislamic." <<

Which part of "my" are you guys not understanding?
Do we all have a "my" version...
If yes then I don't think we have any right to tell others about Islam or any other religion. Its like we believe what we want to believe...nothing wrong with that... cuz others don't know any better either...

If No then why are we so insecure about the understanding of our religion.

ciao,
BoSS (hands Anchal and Rare bottles of water and towels)

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Oye is that bottled water your you just put some tap water in a recycled bottle

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/disgust.gif

Seriously I am ok with the ‘my’ in Rare’s post
when it comes to people’s rights and their right to believe and do what they want to do i have no objections

However i am not at all Ok with the unislamic part
Personally i can beat up individuals who justify their claims by bringing islam in between when there is no need to

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Usually I don't buy any of Aanchal's whining about religion and Islam but I have to go with her on this one. R&G clearly stated that its her belief that its "unislamic" without any proper backing other than her gut feelings and some far fetch extrapolation of a Surah. IMO, this discounts her claim for passing on the judgment about how Islamic an act is or not. We should remember this and since she's already outlined that its her interpretation, leave it at that.

Whether Islam allows organ donation or not, its clearly not written in black and white thus is subject to various interpretions. Various schools of thoughts will debate this to an end but I agree with most of the folks here. How can a religion which stresses so much in humanity and social interdependence be so outright cold in saving a life through a transplant. This is beyond my comprehension.

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Umm...folks brace yourself. Didn't want to bring it to this..but obviously some very strong issues to address here. :)

Originally posted by Anchal:

So you are saying that If I think that a goblet of wine is not going to make me tun then its Islamic cause thats my belief and my right ?

No I say wine is Haram to start with. Kiyun kay yeh zarf par munhasir hota hai kay kaun kitni pee kar "tun" ho gaya. Layhaza yeh siray say haram hai.

So basically i have the right to say what is islamic and unislamic cause after all who gives a dime what it says in Quran or what it doesnt say ?

I have never claimed anything to be Islamic or unislamic myself. I have strongly always based my beliefs on Quran and hadiths. I have repeatedly said that in all my posts. Some of us do care, always have and always will InshaAllah, about what Islam promotes and prohibits. And I base my beliefs on facts.

Rare i will answer your question just as soon as you will answer mine

Where does it say in Quran that it is UnIslamic to donate organs

I have mentioned that not wanting to donate organs is..."my right, and to me and my beliefs it is unislamic." I have also stated a quotation from the Quran reflecting why to me it is unislamic, whereas, you have not quoted once, where in Islam organ donation is promoted. I don't see any proof of Quranic quotations in your posts, regarding your choice.

Frankly speaking I don't think you have the right to question mine or anyone's else's belief for that matter on a Islamic basis. Simply because of the statements you have made in the past. E.g...

**Rare Diamonds and Gold
I said earlier dont preach me Islam i dont belong to that faith

Next time base your arguments without mentioning Islam i dont belive in that faith anymore

i am not a hypocrite islam is a hypocrite religion

says who ?
Quran?
what is Quran?
a book written by humans like me and you?
who claimed its the right way to follow
ok gimme some pen and paper i will write a book to and claim it quran too**

Posted by Rd&G:
Allah S.W.T. says in Soora e Qasus
"Jis ko Allah chahay Hidayat day."

And your reply to that was:

**how are you sure he said it ?
did he whisper in your ear?
or is it from the same book that we know is written by humans

currently i am working on a religoin that will be my creation along with a book too

women will be allowed to marry four times
women will be given the opportunity to divorce with just three words

i dont need any person or any book to tell me what is right and what is wrong

Muslim women cay marry four times or more however after divorcing the first one
why cant they marry four men at one time ?

I believe in One and Only Allah and his Prophet however i dont believe in that Book you call Quran cause its has material that contradicts each other**

As you have continously kept up a pattern of confessing you don't believe in Quran, it is in your best interest to refrain from questioning others beliefs from an Islamic point of view. Since you don't believe in Quran, then don't drag it with intentions of mocking it.

I have no respect for folks who don't believe in Quran or consider it human written. Leaves one's iman incomplete. Therefore, whatever you say now, will be like shooting arrows into the wind. Nor am I going to answer your upheavel simply cuz I have explained why I believe what I believe according to Quran and you don't believe in Quran. I am neck-deep into my beliefs and I don't need to rally anyone towards my
cause for support. :)

And I do uphold what Allah SWT said, "The word of Allah is no doubt very straightforward. And the word of Allah is not for mockery." (86:13,14)

Now you may read this post again and continue your search for further bickering in order to divert the attention of others from the original topic. You are most welcome to do so :)

Pristine:

What is stated in the article is nothing more than the opinion of the author himself. Just like the way you have a right to your opinion as I do to mine.

There are things which are not mentioned in Quran yet are prohibited. E.g. while praying in "Jamat," one can not end sajda before the imam does. However in this particular case, you want to donate your organ, that's your choice. But I hold the right not to do so.

As for your question:

Rarediamonds, I would dare to suggest that this theory that the condition in which we die will be our permanent condition for everafter may not be true.

This world will come to an end. Nothing will remain here. And we will have to answer for the choices we make. We will have to answer for the blessings given to us and use to which we put them. And lastly I have repeatedly said, the blessings of Allah, regardless of forms in which they may be in, are not owned by us. They are a property of Allah.

Boss, no sweat Alhumdulillah all is well :) One's gotta do sometimes what one's gotta do. :)

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Rare janu
I still hold fast onto my beliefs and what i said earlier
because as you have put it simply its my right to believe

Following a religion and knowing facts bout a religion are two separate things

My arguments arent at all based on shooting arrows in the space but on facts
I might act as a dumb blonde but i am highly educated in a few religions and i can carry on a sensible discussion if i think the other party is worth a go

*I know its nowhere written in Quran or in the Bible or in Geeta that it is UnIslamic, UnChristain or UnHindusim to donate organs *

I am fine with your claim that you have the right to your beliefs and body but you returned back with the sentence

[quote]
Yes. I did forget to mention that it is unislamic as well.
[/quote]

Now that is a wrong statement from any angle because you are claiming that its unislamic fair and square
and then after a few posts you come back with another statement contradicting your first one ...and i quote

[quote]
I have never claimed anything to be Islamic or unislamic myself.
[/quote]

Are you telling me that when you made your first statement you werent claiming that its unislamic?

[quote]
Frankly speaking I don't think you have the right to question mine or anyone's else's belief for that matter on a Islamic basis. Simply because of the statements you have made in the past
[/quote]

Thats a nice way of ducking out of it however i am not buying it
I am in NO way questioning your beliefs however *i am questioning your wrong statement that claims there in black and blue that it is unislamic *

[quote]
As you have continously kept up a pattern of confessing you don't believe in Quran
[/quote]

Seriously since you have raised up the question ....When i dont feel comfortable with certain things i drop them
so when there are some aspects of the religion that i refuse to believe or my mind refuses to acknowledge then how can i expect myself to follow or believe in the religion
It is like you dont like a person because you feel uncomfy in their presence but you pretend to like them anywayz
I dont like pretending
I know this truly that Allah is aware what goes in my mind and in my heart and that i cannot lie to him and he knows that i feel this way

However that doesnt mean that I dont have the right to bring up a valid point and let people get away with their unrightful claims

[This message has been edited by Anchal (edited October 12, 2000).]

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I seriously am getting more confused here...

If you both ( Rare and Anchal ) are saying that you both have a right to believe in your own views, then why are you arguing to each other about it? You both say that you have a right to believe in what you want, then what exactly are you disagreeing about?

Are you saying that there are religous differences? But if both of you say that you are entitled to your own opinion, then why do you both persist in trying to impose your views on each other?

If you are both trying to change each others mind on an issue, do you really, really expect to solve this problem by first criticising each other and then putting your own views across?

Or have I completely missed the point?

They shoot partypoopers, don't they?

[This message has been edited by Mr Partypooper (edited October 12, 2000).]

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Partypooper
You have missed one very important point
Sure everybody has the right to believe whatever they want to believe

But to claim on something that is not TRUE is totally uncalled for

Why are maulvis badnaam because they say this is islamic or unislamic to suit themselves and to cater to their situations thus confusing the minds of people and making a mockery out of religion
No One should be allowed to make false claims and to preach something that is not at all VALID
whether a person who claims to be a very strong religous person or a mere humble person like me who likes questioning things which i dont feel and think are right

I am not imposing my views or beliefs on anyone ..
but a person should have the guts to acknowledge the fact that they have posted something that is not right
rather then justifying their wrong point by irrelevant material

[This message has been edited by Anchal (edited October 12, 2000).]

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Read the post, don't skim it. If you think you have a right to your belief, you should accept that others have a right to their beliefs as well. And keeping that in mind, why did you ask then where in Quran is it written? When Shirin asked the question, I expressed my belief based on proof in the form of Quranic Ayah. You came lashing out questioning

Why are you then adding stuff to it that isnt there in the first place?

Where was I adding? My belief, my point, and my right. An ayah directly from the Quran. There were no additions no subtractions.

Secondly,

-------------------------------------------Following a religion and knowing facts bout a religion are two separate things

If one doesn't know the facts, then that's a different ball game. If knowing the facts and figures, one chooses not to follow, might just be simple ignorance on the individual's part. But all religions are about knowing the facts and applying them in day to day life. That's the purpose of having a religion in the first place.

I do not follow Bible, Geeta or Torah. Do believe in five holy books, have studied them as well. But I choose to follow only Quran.

If the point is not registering with your mind, there is not much which can be done about it. Yes I have claimed it is unislamic. And I still say it is. From my knowledge of deen to me, it is unislamic to me and my beliefs, and my understanding of religion. Deal with it.

however i am questioning your wrong statement that claims there in black and blue that it is unislamic

You are not in the position mujer, to question the statement. You have clearly reflected in the past and stressed over the point that you do not believe in Quran, do not follow Islam, therefore, it deprives you of any right to question anyone's islamic faith.

Religion to you might be just dropping something which you don't like and following something which suits you. Just like u said, u believe in Allah and Prophet but u don't believe in the book. That is not following religion. It's a very ridiculous statement if u claim you are a muslim. And if you say you are not, then again, totally disqualifies your position of inquiring about another muslim's iman. What you have stated about Quran, that it is all written by humans and your claim that you can write a book like that, you being a muslim, you lost respect in the eyes of a fellow one right then and there. Had these came from a non muslim, that would have been understandable. But someone who claims they are muslim, follow certain things which please them and drop others which they don't like....that is something else. And comparing Bible, Geeta, Torah or any other book with Quran is completely out of question. I don't have to peek in other books to have faith in my religion.

However that doesnt mean that I dont have the right to bring up a valid point and let people get away with their unrightful claims

What valid point? Twist of words nothing else on your part.

But to claim on something that is not TRUE is totally uncalled for

It's my belief again, what makes you think you have the right to question anyone else's belief? Specially coming from a history like yourself's?

Maulvis might be labelled with bad names. But they do notdisregard Quran. Some of them have different interpretations from others, which some individuals refuse to follow, because their "mind refuses to acknowledge" it. Therefore, they automatically label these maulvis with bad names. That's not what Islam is about.

I am not imposing my views or beliefs on anyone

Then what is it you are trying to do here? Can't u digest the simple fact that my beliefs are different then yours. They never have beeen the same and InshaAllah never will be. Our paths aren't going to cross dear. Nor do I wish them to. :)

but a person should have the guts to acknowledge the fact that they have posted something that is not right

rather then justifying their wrong point by irrelevant material

Two things here. Firstly nothing in Islam is irrelevant. It's like a string of pearls. One string and all the pearls in it are tied to each other. Either one accepts the whole thing, or doesn't accept it at all. There is no option avaiable, as breaking the string in two and taking some beads while leaving the others out. As Allah has said, "Enter the whole of Islam." Not bits and pieces. Your statement,

I believe in One and Only Allah and his Prophet however i dont believe in that Book you call Quran cause its has material that contradicts each other

doesn't leave any space for you to say anything further. And with that statement I don't expect you to understand where I am coming from either on the religious issue.
And I don't need to answer you further on my beliefs.

La kum deena kum wal ya deen
"Your deen for you, mine for me."

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yawnz

face it you made a wrong statement

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yep i think its right to donate organs but not halfway when there might be a ray of hope like anchal said at the beggining