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Jewish ancestors?
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He is being honest. No surprises. That's a good thing.
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PCG,
I've been following your posts/blogs since I became a member. I don't know you that well, but I want you to get married and be happy. I feel some of the hostility and negativity we see in your write-ups may disappear if you're happy on the inside.
I am just as shocked as you are at the IT guy and why in the world he would spring this upon you now? This makes me so mad that he would waste so much of your time, only to show his true colours now when you're emotionally invested and he knows your vulnerabilities/insecurities/how you think. If I were you, I wouldn't go ahead with this marriage (a partnership) where I'm invested 100% but only getting 25% return. I wouldn't want such a life for myself, and I have declined proposals where the guy mentioned from the get-go that he will be in charge after marriage because that's the way it is in Islam or that's the way it runs in his family.
Sure, Islam gives him certain rights but being a leader in a two-person relationship doesn't imply one people's constant unhappiness/suppression. I would advise you not to take this lightly and think this through. Don't let him take advantage of you.
I'm sorry that people are such d-bags. :(
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PCG, I know a real life example where the husband is the decision maker. Wife works full time, looks after everything from kids, bills to groceries. He stays home because he is a heart patient. She has to beg him even to give her $10. I am not exaggerating. She told me this herself. That somedays he gives her $10 for a week and sometimes not even that. So take what you will from this example.
From what I have seen, men with this mentality make their wives' life hell.
It's an extreme example and while such cases do exist, there are many examples of good husbands as well. Plus, based on PCG's post...we can't confidently deduce that her SO has the mentality of a miser or tightwad.
Domination
It sounds more like he is verbally writing out a strict contract rather than trying to create a bonding relationship. It s little strange, but don't deny his mentality type even if he seemed okay in the beginning, usually these things start to display themselves it's better its happening now. I would tell him to get a grip and red flag the dude.
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It's an extreme example and while such cases do exist, there are many examples of good husbands as well. Plus, based on PCG's post...we can't confidently deduce that her SO has the mentality of a miser or tightwad.
Yes I agree it is an extreme example. And I never said there are not guys out there who are or will make wonderful husbands. I didn't even say PCG's IT guy will turn out to be like him. All I am saying is it is not easy to live with men with this mentality, especially for women who have been independent all their lives. Women knowingly get into these relationships hoping things will change after marriage which hardly ever happens. So isn't it better to keep all this in mind before making your decision of who you will spend the rest of your life with?
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I have no other options
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Okay, so Miss PCG, you need to figure out whether what he says is what he means.
If this was the first thing he said to you when you met - HUGE red flad - you would judge him by his initial comments. Instead what you have is the benefit of talking to him for months and meeting and interacting with him in person.
Maybe, just maybe for once he might think he means this, but the reality is far different. If he respects you and respects your intelligence and capacity to make decisions, then he will take you into account in making decisions for himself and for the two of you and he is probably more than likely to share decision-making with you.
My measure of a man: he'd better be smart enough and our values match closely enough for me to want to defer to his decision-making on our mutual decisions. The flip side is marrying a wuss who makes you make all the tough choices - that's no better either. As with anything, balance is everything.
And larki, you need to find your zen place and think positive about this one instead of constantly looking for what could go wrong.
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^^ Great advice Sehrysh.
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Okay, so Miss PCG, you need to figure out whether what he says is what he means.
If this was the first thing he said to you when you met - HUGE red flad - you would judge him by his initial comments. Instead what you have is the benefit of talking to him for months and meeting and interacting with him in person.
Maybe, just maybe for once he might think he means this, but the reality is far different. If he respects you and respects your intelligence and capacity to make decisions, then he will take you into account in making decisions for himself and for the two of you and he is probably more than likely to share decision-making with you.
My measure of a man:** he'd better be smart enough and our values match closely enough for me to want to defer to his decision-making on our mutual decisions.** The flip side is marrying a wuss who makes you make all the tough choices - that's no better either. As with anything, balance is everything.
And larki, you need to find your zen place and think positive about this one instead of constantly looking for what could go wrong.
This. Tell him that respect is earned, and that being a leader also means that he better make good decisions the majority of the time because otherwise, he'll have a mutiny on his hands. Responsibility is not to be taken lightly. This is why I don't suggest that women settle in terms of personality, intelligence and values. If you can't respect your husband, you will not want to defer to him, and for a lot of desi guys, that's an issue.
So for this, hash it out. As ridiculous as it sounds, make up a scenario for him. As specific as possible. Like Paheli said, what if you guys have kids and you want to stay at home but he wants you to work, what then? What if he wants to invest in X (say a stock) and you don't feel comfortable, but would rather invest in a mutual fund or a safer stock? It might just be that he's stubborn about this but may end up being more reasonable once specific issues come up.
As for cooking, lol, my mom constantly complains about not knowing what to cook, so having a guy make suggestions can be helpful. On that other hand, demanding it is a bit weird.
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If a guy said that to me I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole! You shd have full say over your finances. That alone is a big red flag
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The thing is that for the past 6 months I haven't been talking to him about how I love his eyes.
I have been hashing out these issues with him.
Work - he initially over the first 3 months said that if I want to apply for certain positions, ok go for it, he will support me. He does not do what I do, but his family does. I'm not sure if his family had a part to play in this, but when I visited his family, his sister asked me 100 questions about my job, my future plans for my job, further ideas for further education, particular job opportunities and interests. I was like, ok whatever, she is in my field, this is just shop talk. I think she was trying to figure out for him whether I'd be putting career over family maybe? Dunno. But then like into month 5 or so, he asked that I may not be able to apply for a position in the near future that I had my heart set on, because moving is not going to be possible for him. Which I understand. He's got his job and is working on some coursework on the side for extra education, so I'm not going to STOP that and make him move. Plus, he's got a cush job that has some long term security, mA, so I'm not going to be greedy and say it's all about me, you must move. But if the circumstances were right, and he is willing to let go of his job or he finds a better one maybe in a city where I can get a career leg up, then sure why not? Not so much. He pretty much made it clear that for the long haul, we may be living where he lives, indefinitely. So, moving is not an option, therefore, this limits my training options. And in my field, you really do need to be mobile to train, otherwise, you're at a HUGE disadvantage, esp now since there are more people than training positions.
Family - he said he would rather I work than not work. He does not get it why his friends have their wives who are doctorates, sitting at home. He thinks it is a waste, and I agree. I voice that I want to continue working, he is ok with that. He spent some time with his neice, sister's daughter, who doesn't know a lick of English at 4 being raised by a desi nanny because her mom is working all the time. We talked about that - mutually decided that this is not a cool option because kids need to learn some English before they hit KG in this country. I told him, I'd like to probably do part time to be with kids - he is cool with that.
Cooking - he asked once or twice if I know how to make parathas, I said fat chance buddy that stuff is unhealthy. I don't eat it, I don't want my family getting fat off that stuff, and I don't want to cook it. Haath ki roti with whole wheat bread - maybe I'll look into it, since it is healthier. But there are whole wheat naans these days. That's what most people use. He was ok with that.
So as you can see, we both agreed on pretty much everything with the exception that once in a while he'll pipe up about what an awesome paratha his mom made, and I say, well that's great she's not working 120 hrs a week plus working and studying from home. And he never OPPOSED.
So I'm surprised where this is all coming from. Why would you NOW tell a girl that you'll be the boss, your decisions will be 75% and the wifey gets 25%?
Man, sometimes I think I should have been born a guy. I would never disrespect my woman like that.
I'm really peeved off now. My mom, I just spoke to her, she really doesn't like the whole deal and frankly is not blessing this potential marriage, and she really doesn't like the guy and what he's asking.
I mean, on one hand he tells me that he wants me to decide whether I want to move forward with my career, or whether I'm happy settling with him and knowing that my career might be on a hold for a bit. So, that decision making capacity I have. But then after marriage, I don't get decision making capacity.
Then he busts out with this nonsense over one of my hypothetical scenarios that if I wanted something nice for myself, maybe the solution is he will give me an allowance. EXCUSE ME. You will TAKE MY MONEY, we will put it in an account together, and then YOU WILL DECIDE how much I get to spend? Homeboy, I got loans and my parents to take care of and all the money I owe them back for my education, you aren't gonna be seeing a dime for at least the next 10 years!!!
And we discussed a prenup, and I even said, we'll have to sit down with lawyers and hash the whole situation out, and he agreed with that.
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God, what is this desi crap mentality of men have to dominate??
I told him last night that he can THINK he makes all the decisions, when it reality we will be discussing everything and deciding things together. He was like, nope, I get the last say.
Urgh. Just chauvinist. Totally chauvinist.
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Look PCG.....at the end, this is your life and you will decide what risks you are willing to take. If you have already convinced yourself that you have no other options.....then there is not much else anyone here can say. You and your family should be happy he mentioned all this now. How would you have felt if he surprised you with the "real" him AFTER nikah?
I've already brought up the idea of a prenup and he seems interested in it.
LOL.....being "interested" in a prenup and actually signing one with lawyers present is totally different. In fact, just agreeing to the DETAILS of a prenup is totally different. Like I said already, please hire your own lawyer (and he should have his own too) and bring up your concerns with him/her. Its great to know what Islam says about certain things....but you already know that it won't mean in the court room much IF your hubby chooses not to follow those teaching in the event of a divorce. So spend some time learning the actual law when it comes to these things.
Some of the things you should discuss with your lawyer & get a DETAILED prenup on:
1) Income/assets etc. obtained BEFORE the wedding date: In community property states, these can not be claimed in the event of a divorce. But just to be on the safe side....it's best to address this and come to an agreement.
2) Debt incurred BEFORE marriage: Credit cards, loans/mortgage etc.....will your spouse help you pay these off OR will they be kept separate
3) Debt incurred AFTER marriage: In the event of a divorce....who will be responsible for paying. If divided...how will it be divided.
4) Asset division: What does each party get during a divorce. Income, home, cars, 401(k)/other investments etc.....list every-single-thing. This can be divided by a percentage OR can be a particular sum. It can be paid (let's say you're supposed to get X amount) on a lump sum OR paid over a period of months (let's say he gives you X amount for 12 months after divorce is final).
5) Gifts: This is where all the expensive gold jewelry comes in. Gifts exchanged before/during marriage....will they be returned during a divorce. If so, will there be a cut off in what "gifts" are divided (ex. let's say any gift with a value of over $1,000). Will this have what's called a sunset clause? Meaning there is a expiration date on this "gift returning" part of the prenup. After all.....there is a difference between getting divorced after 3 months.....versus 3 YEARS and after having 1 or 2 babies.
6) What state laws will apply to the prenup? If you move to a different state during the marriage, how will that effect the prenup?
7) What happens if one person challenges the prenup during the divorce? Will that challenge be dealt with through mediation, arbitration, or court trial? ** My personal advice to you is insist on a clause that the person who challenges the validity of the prenup during a divorce will pay the other spouse's lawyer/court fees REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME.
8) Be sure to sign the prenup months before the wedding (ie. before invites are mailed out/vendors are booked etc). You never want to give him (or his lawyer) the excuse that he was somehow bullied/pressured into signing the prenup at the last minute after everything about the wedding has been finalized. This is a common reason for challenging prenups during divorce. Also insist he get his own lawyer. Not having legal representation (ie. "Oh I'm not a lawyer and didn't understand what I was signing back then") will give him another easy reason to challenge the validity of the document in the future.
That's all I can think of for now. Like I said.....it's easy to agree to signing a prenup. Getting both people to agree to all the details in the prenup is a whole another matter. :)
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ALLOWANCE when you are making your own money and putting it into a joint account? 
WTH?
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Great awesome practical advice paheli, thank you so much!! This is what they should be teaching to the girls in our community here, esp since the nikkah namas do not hold up in court.
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Easy on the man bashing. Desi men need to dominate? Ask all the white guys who have no intention of marrying because of overbearing women. You can't say you would be a kind man, when, as a woman, you have such a low opinion of men.
Secondly, I agree with what Paheli said about a prenup, but I'm guessing that you're assuming that you are the only one who stands to benefit from it. Keep in mind that there may be things that he/his lawyer may demand that you may not be so happy with.
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Okay, so Miss PCG, you need to figure out whether what he says is what he means.
If this was the first thing he said to you when you met - HUGE red flad - you would judge him by his initial comments. Instead what you have is the benefit of talking to him for months and meeting and interacting with him in person.
Maybe, just maybe for once he might think he means this, but the reality is far different. If he respects you and respects your intelligence and capacity to make decisions, then he will take you into account in making decisions for himself and for the two of you and he is probably more than likely to share decision-making with you.
My measure of a man: he'd better be smart enough and our values match closely enough for me to want to defer to his decision-making on our mutual decisions. The flip side is marrying a wuss who makes you make all the tough choices - that's no better either. As with anything, balance is everything.
And larki, you need to find your zen place and think positive about this one instead of constantly looking for what could go wrong.
This is what I was thinking and then I come across your post...lol
Listen to her. Some men like to be in charge...that's how they are. Instead of fighting it...learn to let him be a man while you also get to be a woman. There's nothing wrong with a guy wanting to step up and make decisions for his household...this is what a responsible man does. So when we find a responsible man...why do we fight him to turn him into the man we never wanted?
You say you want him to be responsible financially for the household - well - you ARE his household after marriage.
So far, you've been happy with this guy. He seems respectful AND he also says he will not make a decision without listening to you. What does that mean? It means, he won't be barreling ahead with no regard for PCG and her pulsating brain. He considers you his partner. You will have a chance to talk about these decisions, voice your opinion and convince him with reason if you're not happy with his decisions.
PCG...try to ENJOY this time.
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Yeah I guess I can keep writing GS blogs as single angry feminist PCG that is either too old to marry, or is too ugly, or makes too much money, or not enough money, or too successful/educated, or not enough successful/educated, not good enough for my precious boy, much hated by MIL’s and aunties everywhere with thorough vigor PCG. Your good old PCG that has been unchanged like this for the past 11 years of GS existence.
I just can’t believe he made those statements. So casually too, like just because he has a pair of balls, he has the upper hand in everything. In my decisions and in my income, and my job and career and education. And if I’m lucky, I get to share an opinion with him! Yay!
This is not the guy I’ve been talking to for the past 6 months. This is NOT the same guy. That guy has been so supportive and caring, and wants to see me happy for the rest of my life. He’d never let a family member of his call over and suggest that maybe my mom’s the problem in all this. Who DOES THAT?? But I thought, ok, maybe I’m taking that overboard. Even though BOTH my parents, including my rational father, thought that was out of line.
:-/
I mean bhabi aside and all, just his comments last night independently of everything else. Big RED FLAG. Funny when I tell you girls about your family lives - HEY RED FLAG STUPID, and here I am staring at one and thinking, really? Is this the same guy that I’ve developed into thinking of as family?
Is that what you get when you start caring for someone? A good kick on your arse? It’s now the second time - first boy number 2, and now this.
I’m not going through this marriage/rishta scene anymore. It’s so exhausting. I am giving up. Maybe I’m meant to be alone. Maybe that old jadoogar weirdo was right. My future holds a lonely nursing home.
I’m off the masjid. Maybe the imam might bring up my topics on nikkah and jewelry and such. I emailed him about it. Emphasized that he bring it up at a Khutbah. He says he has in the past, and will gladly sit down and talk to me about these topics, I was like, no I don’t have time for personal meetings. Can you just bring it up in a Khutba? 