But does it also mean that our batsmen are basically tulley or tukeybaaz, hence thrive in this short format of cricket but struggle in the longer versions because most of them lack the necessary patience, temperament, skills, planning & organisation required to do well under pressure?
Don’t get me wrong, our 50-over (4th best After South Africa, Australia and only marginally behind Windies) and Test (3rd best after Australia and England) record is still better than most other teams but lately we have struggled esp. in tests and it is more often the batters that have let the team down.
^ Do not disagree there. But that is also precisely my point. In T20 our batsmen have to last only 20 overs and a score of 160-170 is often enough to win the game. But in the longer version our batters regularly implode for less than 250 giving the same bowlers next to no chance of making a game out of it.
One of the reasons is that we dont have world class batters in our side anymore...with the exception of Yousef none of them are anywhere near the class of batsman like Inzamam Ul Haq, Saeed Anwar, Javed Miandad.....the only batsman who looks like he may become a classy player is Umar Akmal...but he still has a long way to go...
Malik, Nazir, Afridi, Butt, Farhat, Misbah, etc are nowhere near world class batters...
Even the bowlers are nowhere near Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Mushtaq Ahmed etc......Gul has an excellent t-20 record but his bowling in the test and ODI arena off late has been pretty poor...Razzaq has become a bits and pieces bowler who will be taken apart in good batting conditions against top sides....etc...
I think more importance should be placed to Test cricket..once our guys are good test players, then they will develop a good game for even the ODI arena....20-20 shouldnt be taken too seriously....
I think test cricket is the number 1 judge of a players ability...followed by ODI cricket. As good as Gul is in 20-20, if he wants to become a premier fast bowler for Pakistan, he needs to perform in test cricket...
People may hate to hear this...but in test cricket the best strike bowler we have had since the retirement of Wasim and Waqar, has been Shoaib Akhter. If fit, I would always play him ahead of Gul in test cricket..Akhter,Asif,Amir,Kaneria. Great test bowling line up.
Re: Does our T-20 success mean that our batsmen are basically tulleybaaz?
In my opinion consistency is the main problem for us. We let the initiative slip out of our hands in longer version and 20/20 has very less time for opponent to rebound thats why Pakistan is more successful.
In ODI we have a bit more time but still less than test match. So we are worst in ODI (as compared to 20/20) but better in ODI (as compared to test). I can list countless tests here where Pakistan was in VERY good position but let he initiative slipped out of our hands only to draw or lose the game.
Re: Does our T-20 success mean that our batsmen are basically tulleybaaz?
Great thread GA - Love the tulleybaaz comment. :D
but we have discussed this so many times before..
Everyone's points so far have weight...MX, GA, D6C...
If you look at the batting since the big legends retired, the last being Inzi, Pakistan have been left with Yousuf, Younis as big innings players. Why is that? In in my opinion, the lack of patience in our culture makes its way into the talent as well. Batsmen who are laid back and can plan out a long innings require a great deal of patience in their personalities. Whereas pakistanis today, are the example of impatience. Even with Younis, the issue that keeps bringing him down, is his own impatience. This is my humble opinion. Others can choose to disagree.
Re: Does our T-20 success mean that our batsmen are basically tulleybaaz?
T-20 suites the nature of our society society in general as we are mostly im-patient. Also our players grow up by playing 8 overs in guli muhalla cricket. so we know this type very well. So IMO we r real champs in T-20. n i beleive sooner ODI will be taken over by T20
I had always suspected and had a theory and am now 100% (anecdotal evidence) sure that Pakistani nation suffers from severe ADHD.
Remember the famous old tale of Hare and the Tortoise. Hare had classical symptoms of ADHD and Tortoise was a classical case of OCD (Obssessive Compulsive disorder).
When it comes to perform for short periods of time for example 20 overs, we perform very well, as we know it’s gonna finish pretty soon. However, when it comes to 50 overs or 5 days, Pakistanis loose their concentration hence the attention deficit. This is where other teams tend to perform better as they can control their attention and impulsivity. Pakistan will always be better in 20-20 format as it is their competitive strength.
By the way check this ADHD sypmtoms list and check Pakistani behavior: (From Wikipedia, ofcourse)
ADHD may be seen as one or more continuous traits found normally throughout the general population. ADHD is a developmental disorder in which certain traits such as impulse control lag in development. Using magnetic resonance imaging of the prefrontal cortex, this developmental lag has been estimated to range from 3 to 5 years. These delays are considered to cause impairment.
Re: Does our T-20 success mean that our batsmen are basically tulleybaaz?
I think a lot of it also has to do with inconsistency in Selection & Sincerity. As Islam teaches us, we have to be sincere in our actions. As the PCB selection committee, I think they are influenced by people who are higher up in authority and therefore genuine players are not given exposure in Pak team. If they were sincere in their causes to get the best possible outfit on the field, I truly dont see how the likes of Imran Farhat, Salman Butt, Faisal Iqbal can be even considered after numerous failures. Inconsistencies in their selection, is just unfortunate as well. Some players are chosen only for 1-2 matches and never heard of again.
Mansoor Amjad, Mohammad Talha in recent times are prime examples. Hasan Raza at 15 years was debut, to be the next Sachin of somesort but that never happened either. See how inconsistent they have been with Ahmed Shehzad, Nasir Jamshed, Shoaib Khan Jr., Shahzib Hasan (who did good in WC T20), Wahab Riaz.
Someone like Asim Kamal, who was given a small chance of playing only 12 test matches, and scored 8 fifties and he doesnt get a chance again especially how well he did in Australia last time around. But as you put it, tulleybaaz like Butt, Farhat, Faisal Iqbal (bhanja) get selected instead.
I am sure there are other talented players in our domestic cricket but they never get a chance to play for Pak because the more influential people always get the chance, even without merit. That's Pakistan unfortunately.
Re: Does our T-20 success mean that our batsmen are basically tulleybaaz?
Well noted about Asim Kamal.. he was the only guy who dleivered when it was most needed by the team.. most of his fifties were in the nineties actually. He definitely deserves to be in the team. The only reason he got out was cause of Wasim Bari and Shaharyaar khan's napotism.
Ahmed Shahzad also deserves more chance.
GA, to thrive even in the shorter version of the game with such consistency require some skills which I don’t think tulley baaz team can demonstrate.
Pakistan do lack patience/temperament as you mentioned but then that is something which we always lacked but still succeeded even in 80’s and 90’s.
On paper we still have a good unit for Test and ODIs which can beat any team. We just need some regular cricket (Test/ODIs) coupled with good talent in the side and Inshallah will be back on track.
Re: Does our T-20 success mean that our batsmen are basically tulleybaaz?
Even today if we can somehow (i dont know how) can get 1 more reliable batsman with yousuf, we can do better. Problem is no other batsman is a test material. If you guys remember recent past good days of Cricket were when yousuf and younus were scoring big together.
I still think, with 2 solid batsmen and few other half-batsmen (like misbah, malik etc) we can still perform good. I hope Umer akmal develops quickly. He has everything that a batsmen should have. He has shown he can stay at the wicket when needed and he has shown that he can smack around when required. our stupid captain (younuis) and other tour selection committee decided to drop Akmal in ODI. He is our best bet for now and should be included in every match unless he is injured or something.
Re: Does our T-20 success mean that our batsmen are basically tulleybaaz?
Pakisani batsmen can play in all types of wickets against any bowler and in any format. Problem is patience. They lack the temperament. If our batsmen start strong they do not know how to continue or finish the game. They need a good batting coach on consistent basis. Let's take out Mohammad Yousuf and Younis as they are world class players. Talking about Umer Akmal, Shoaib Malik, Kamran and Misbah....they all have played match winning inngs for Pakistan but the reason they are unable to make a mark is because they are inconsistent. If they are going to play a match winning inng in one match the other day will give away the same wicket over a stupid shot.
@ James’ post 