Losing a test match by 23 runs does not make them tulleybaaz, but not being able to chase 251 runs definitely does :D
What does it make NZ then who got out for 150? :)
Re: Does our T-20 success mean that our batsmen are basically tulleybaaz?
^ Winners - by 32 runs :)
Re: Does our T-20 success mean that our batsmen are basically tulleybaaz?
^ That still doesn't make Pakistan tullaybaaz.
Re: Does our T-20 success mean that our batsmen are basically tulleybaaz?
Well, NZ got out for 150 runs and still won by 32 runs…
Pak bowled NZ out for 150 runs, but couldn’t chase 251 and lost by 32 runs…
And that does not make Pak tulleybaaz ??
OK…if you say so 
Losing a test match by 23 runs does not make them tulleybaaz, but not being able to chase 251 runs definitely does :D
Refresh my memory by telling me that India, even its current best world beater team has never scored less than 250 in a losing cause. If they did than according to your statement they are tulleybaaz as well.
Refresh my memory by telling me that India, even its current best world beater team has never scored less than 250 in a losing cause. If they did than according to your statement they are tulleybaaz as well.
Thats not the point, Ehsan bhai !
In the recent months, Pakistan has had a great track record in T20s, but has sucked in tests and not done as well in ODIs. The logical conclusion is that they can hit out and score quickly as long as its just 20 overs but are unable to concentrate and bat for longer periods. If that does not qualify as *tulleybaazi *I am not sure what does ??
Thats not the point, Ehsan bhai !
In the recent months, Pakistan has had a great track record in T20s, but has sucked in tests and not done as well in ODIs. The logical conclusion is that they can hit out and score quickly as long as its just 20 overs but are unable to concentrate and bat for longer periods. If that does not qualify as *tulleybaazi *I am not sure what does ??
you need to know what is going on with the team before labelling them tullay bazz.
When you have players like Younis and Misbah missing from the middle order for stupid reasons and not injuries and players like Shoaib Malik in your middle order then there is something wrong with the set up and not with the team.
Your top three players are technically flawed and its not like you cannot replace them. Its just that they opted for these 3 players. May be I am bit too harsh as far as Khurram Manzoor goes and ma be he needs a longer run. But I think Fawad needs to be groomed more and more in others versions before entering into test arena. Throwing him so early in test matches is unfair and thats what we did with hasan raza.
I am too mad to even comment on Imran Farhat. Who has given PCB or people like Imtiaz Ahmed right to select Imran Farhat? Are they all bigger tthan the game of cricket in Pakistan?
Pakistan current bowling can compete with the best bowling lineups and when they are in form, majority of the other bowling lineups can just dream to match them.
As I said earlier they need to play consistently especially in test matches which thankfully they have now started to after a gap of 2-3 years. Additionally they need to play their best side. If they take care of these 2 factors and still they underform then you can certainly label them tullay bazz otherwise you just don't what you are talking about.
When you have players like Younis and Misbah missing from the middle order for stupid reasons and not injuries and players like Shoaib Malik in your middle order then there is something wrong with the set up and not with the team.
Your top three players are technically flawed and its not like you cannot replace them. Its just that they opted for these 3 players. May be I am bit too harsh as far as Khurram Manzoor goes and ma be he needs a longer run. But I think Fawad needs to be groomed more and more in others versions before entering into test arena. Throwing him so early in test matches is unfair and thats what we did with hasan raza.
All your points are valid, however my comment is just about the current playing XI. Are all Pak cricket players (international, domestic, gali-mohalla *types) *tulleybaaz ? NO !!!
Pakistan current bowling can compete with the best bowling lineups and when they are in form, majority of the other bowling lineups can just dream to match them.
Pak is definitely a better bowling side than a batting one - no questions about that. Although I still think that the current lot pales in comparison to what Pak had in the 90s...There is just not as much that separates Pak bowlers from the rest :)
Re: Does our T-20 success mean that our batsmen are basically tulleybaaz?
^ Bring in a 17 year old kid as good as Aamir, then we'll talk. Until then Pakistan bowling is way ahead of the rest.
^ Bring in a 17 year old kid as good as Aamir, then we'll talk. Until then Pakistan bowling is way ahead of the rest.
Aamir is a good prospect for Pak, but its too early to say that he is in the same league as Imran, Wasim, Waqar or even Shoaib. There have been many bowlers who have come on the scene, had a couple of great years, been touted as the next best thing and then faded away.
Re: Does our T-20 success mean that our batsmen are basically tulleybaaz?
No one is comparing him with anyone. If Pakistan can produce youngsters like him every now and then future looks bright. Not everyone can be Wasim Akram.
Re: Does our T-20 success mean that our batsmen are basically tulleybaaz?
^ Looks like you were in a hurry to reply and did not read my earlier post properly.
Pak is definitely a better bowling side than a batting one - no questions about that. Although I still think that the current lot pales in comparison to what Pak had in the 90s...There is just not as much that separates Pak bowlers from the rest :)
Pak bowling in the 90s was far ahead of most countries. The current lot (including Aamir) are no where near the golden greats...While they might still be better, they are just marginally so, and do not give Pak the kind of advantage that they enjoyed earlier.
^ Looks like you were in a hurry to reply and did not read my earlier post properly.
Pak bowling in the 90s was far ahead of most countries. The current lot (including Aamir) are no where near the golden greats...While they might still be better, they are just marginally so, and do not give Pak the kind of advantage that they enjoyed earlier.
While I agree with you on this but I think generally the bowling talent around the world has gone down as compared to be what it was in 80s and 90s and I'll attribute this too TOO MUCH PROTECTION for batsmen from ICC (beside other reasons too)
I hope Asif, Aamir and Gul sticks together for some time (and stay in form). Aamir has showed us what he is capable off but whether he will convert it into something substantial , we have to wait and see this.
^ Looks like you were in a hurry to reply and did not read my earlier post properly.
Pak bowling in the 90s was far ahead of most countries. The current lot (including Aamir) are no where near the golden greats...While they might still be better, they are just marginally so, and do not give Pak the kind of advantage that they enjoyed earlier.
the era of 2 W's was an exceptional era and you don't get to see such greats in every decade. It is actually unfair to compare any bowling attack/combination with the 2 W's. Basically you are comparing apples and oranges.
The point is our top and middle order in absense of crappy openers and in presence of Yonuis, Misbah, Yousuf, Umar Akmal along with an impressive fast and spin bowling is no way close to a tullay baz squad. Statistically speaking the recent results/matches are inconclusive to label them as tullay baz. We need to observe their performance for a prolonged period of time to pass a verdict.
the era of 2 W's was an exceptional era and you don't get to see such greats in every decade. It is actually unfair to compare any bowling attack/combination with the 2 W's. Basically you are comparing apples and oranges.
Not quite true, since we are comparing Pak fast bowling attack in the 90s to Pak fast bowling attack today.
Statistically speaking the recent results/matches are inconclusive to label them as tullay baz. We need to observe their performance for a prolonged period of time to pass a verdict.
They have demonstrated their inability to stay at the crease and build up a total, and have fallen mainly to absurd shots. Thats the hallmark of tulleybaaz *batsmen. I agree that their performance needs to be observed for a longer time, but I dont think their basic cricketing skills will change overnight. For example Afridi made his debut as a *tulleybaaz and is still that. He might have played some great knocks, but he does not have the technique for the longer version of the game.
Not quite true, since we are comparing Pak fast bowling attack in the 90s to Pak fast bowling attack today.
May be you are trying to compare that but I am not. I am more interested in comparing our current bowling line up with other bowling lineups.
They have demonstrated their inability to stay at the crease and build up a total, and have fallen mainly to absurd shots. Thats the hallmark of tulleybaaz *batsmen. I agree that their performance needs to be observed for a longer time, but I dont think their basic cricketing skills will change overnight. For example Afridi made his debut as a *tulleybaaz and is still that. He might have played some great knocks, but he does not have the technique for the longer version of the game.
Afridi doesn't play test cricket bhai.
May be you are trying to compare that but I am not. I am more interested in comparing our current bowling line up with other bowling lineups.
Well, by responding to my post comparing Pak bowling in 90s with the one today, you implied that you were making the same comparison :)
I still think that the two things are related since the Pak bowling greats in 90s gave them a big advantage over other teams (with the exception of WI who had their own greats) while the current attack does not provide the same level of advantage since they are not as good as the 90s attack.
Afridi doesn't play test cricket bhai.
I know, *bhai...*PCB selction committee also agrees with my assessment :)
Pakisani batsmen can play in all types of wickets against any bowler and in any format. Problem is patience. They lack the temperament. If our batsmen start strong they do not know how to continue or finish the game. They need a good batting coach on consistent basis. Let's take out Mohammad Yousuf and Younis as they are world class players. Talking about Umer Akmal, Shoaib Malik, Kamran and Misbah....they all have played match winning inngs for Pakistan but the reason they are unable to make a mark is because they are inconsistent. If they are going to play a match winning inng in one match the other day will give away the same wicket over a stupid shot.
yeah World class Pakistani batsmen can play everywhere.
Like your hero they have a great record in places such as Australia. If they can have patience in fast tracks such as Karachi / Faislabad etc than it can't see the reason why they don't have the patience anywhere else.