does ur view about religion.. and the way you or others practise religious obligations change once you’ve been in the west?
does it change for the better or worst?
i know some people on GS have this wharped view about western muslims… so i just wanted to know what people thought…
(not only discussing muslims… but chritians, jews, hindus.. etc)
i was just thinking of this yesterday because of a book i was reading. i think it is useful, perhaps, to remember, that during the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), a group of Muslims had emigrated from Mecca to Abyssinia, taking refuge under the protection of the Christian king there, Negus. Even they migrated. And of course, Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) himself migrated from Mecca to Madinah (when religious persecution from the Quraysh became too great).
um for me, personally, this may sound strange laykin - in a way, i feel i am more conscious of Islam in a nonMuslim country, than i was growing up in Abu Dhabi. (Manifestly, everyone’s experiences will be unique so of course this will not apply to everyone.) All i feel, is that, slowly over time i’m becoming more and more knowledgeable of what Islam really is - and y’know, it’s sometimes been my interactions with nonMuslims that has motivated me. Especially after 11 September, i had to arm myself with so much more knowledge of Islam… starting from really simple things to more ‘complex’ issues such as sharia and fiqh. Alhamdulillah, last year at two different seminars i presented speeches regarding Islam drawing upon knowledge that i had recently learned. i can’t see myself doing that had i grown up in Abu Dhabi…where i was relying upon my Pakistani culture to teach me Islam.
A nonMuslim environment can make a Muslim go in multiple different ways - one of the ways, is that it can motivate you, Insha’Allah, to want to better yourself through gaining a deeper appreciation of Islam, not Pakistani-Islam, but just Islam. i dunno, sorry if i’m not explaining myself better 
That’s just how i feel, i could be wrong.
No Nadia, you explained it perfectly well. You're not wrong. Mostly people become more conscious of their religion when they're in an invironment where it's not that much practiced. They don't take it for granted anymore and try to 'reserve' it as much as possible. They feel they have to protect their religion and spend more time and effort in it.
But there is also the other side, where people tend to forget. Slowly, they become less and less religious. Influenced by western style. Maybe the urge to belong to a group, I don't know. There mostly seem to be two sides, either the one completely turning to religion, or the other side after some time completely forgetting it. I haven't seen much of the people in the middle of it. Not there anyway.
ummm No i dont think so ...i think mostly ppl living in westren countries are more religious then ppl living in pakistan ! in nonmuslim countries we get more close to our religion .
I agree with this Nadia. :k:
A lot of South East Asians practice Islam with a lot of emphasis on culture rather than Islam itself. In the West, the culture just isn’t there so I have noticed that Islam can be practiced properly without culture/community dictating how things ought to be done.
That's a good point actually. Maybe that's why western people who become muslims, are often better muslims then us born and raised in Islam.
Both are extremely valid points :k:
Yeah, atleast I finally realized the difference between culture and religion.
I'm also questioning alot of aspects about Islam these days. I just can't take everything for granted anymore.
The concept of "blind faith" just doesn't make sense to me anymore.
Re: does living in the west change ur views about...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sadzzz: *
does ur view about religion.. and the way you or others practise religious obligations change once you've been in the west?
does it change for the better or worst?
i know some people on GS have this wharped view about western muslims... so i just wanted to know what people thought...
(not only discussing muslims... but chritians, jews, hindus.. etc)
[/QUOTE]
I would like to add that ppl living in non muslim countries do not have the luxury of taking religion for granted. this might result them to get to know there religion better, because when you are in pk one does not get a question why don't you eat pork?
what do you guys think?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mehroo: *
ummm No i dont think so ...i think mostly ppl living in westren countries are more religious then ppl living in pakistan ! in nonmuslim countries we get more close to our religion .
[/QUOTE]
true .. :-)
no, nothing changes in ur religion by living in the west…
interest becomes a necessity…
intermingling of sexes becomes a way of life…
those non-muslim schools and companies dont allow u time to pray, but hey there is always qazaa namaaz…
so what if u miss out on friday prayers and/or eid prayers: after all that assignment (school or work) was very very important…
my fasts remain no more than staying away from food cuz there is no way u can escape this culture that consistently bombards ur brain with all sorts of foul ideas…
i dont get halaal meat so shall i become a vegetarian??? ofcourse not, many scholars (dont know how they say it bu they do) say that eating animals slaughtered by non-muslims is halaal when u r living here in the west…
and even if they dint say that, the smell of the burgers drives me crazy…
i see semi-naked ppl all around me, but am sure i never intended to see them, they just come across me…
yeah, even those on the TV, i never switch to those channels, all channels show those things… shall i stop watching TV???
my sisters and daughters cant wear hijab, they might be attacked…
they have to wear those tight jeans and t-shirts…
so what if Islam doesnt allow them, Muhammad :saw: never came to america or egland, he had no idea that such dresses existed…
i cant pray regularly, i will indulge in interest and haraam food, i will talk to the opposite sex (and am no angel to keep my thoughts clean) and those revealing clothes and those cable channels dont let ur brain stay tidy, and i will not have large muslim communitites, i know of hadith where the prophet said clearly that he is not responsible for anyone who leaves a muslim state and goes to a non-muslim state, but all this does nothing to effect my religion…
True, Armughal brother, but isn't it the case that if you're living in the west, with all these haraam things basically surrounding you 24 hours a day, and you succeed in resisting from bad thoughts, actions you get more sawaab? It's also a form of Jihaad, right?
It's easier to follow the rules, if there is no other choise. But if there are different kinds of seductions around you, and you still succeed in resisting them and be a good human, you get rewarded for that?
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by sadya: *
True, Armughal brother, but isn't it the case that **if* you're living in the west, with all these haraam things basically surrounding you 24 hours a day, *and you succeed in resisting from bad thoughts, actions you get more sawaab? It's also a form of Jihaad, right? *
It's easier to follow the rules, if there is no other choise. But if there are different kinds of seductions around you, and you still succeed in resisting them and be a good human, you get rewarded for that?
[/QUOTE]
now that IF is very important....
go home and read the verses 97-100 of Surah Nisaa (Chpater 4) of the Quran, and tell me what u understand from those....
the main question is why did u put urself in that situation....
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
now that IF is very important....
the main question is why did u put urself in that situation....
[/QUOTE]
That's a good question.
Why do people leave their motherland? For money, for a better living. If they can't find a job, make a decent living, they go abroad hoping to find a better life. Or to earn money and send it to their families at home, or maybe to study, or perhaps they are political refugees.
Maybe, when we succeed to make a living for ourselves, and we are strong enough now to return to our homeland and can survive there too, we should go back. There are many people in their own country, who are not starving, but still yearning to come to the west. I don't know why, what's so appealing about the west, that even people who do have a decent living watn to come here? I've never thought about that before.
Actually, I am at home. :-) Well, from what I understand, we shouldn't leave our Islamic countries in the first place. If you're surrounded by evil, move yourself away from it. So, then if you're not starving in your muslim country, it's better to stay there.
verse 98: Except those who are (really) weak and oppressed- men, women, and children who have no means in their power, nor can they find a way (to escape)
verse 99: For these, there is hope that Allah will forgive: for Allah doth blot out (sins) and forgive again and again.
So if you're living in a western country because you can't find work in your own muslim country, that would be forgiven? Given of course that you are really staying away from evil thoughts and deeds as much as you can in this society.
I first thought that while living here and still trying to be pious, you would get rewarded, but the reward is greater then, if you leave your home in Allah's cause, so move away from the west, right?
Verse 100: He who forsakes his home in the cause of Allah, finds in the earth many a refuge. And abundance should he die as a refugee from home for Allah and His messenger, His reward becomes due and sure with Allah: and Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful.
Well, now I asked my Dad about this, because the idiot I am, it kept bugging me. And he said, that as long as we're not being oppressed, leaving the country isn't an order. He said we're allowed to build mosques here, in schools and public places we can cover our head and wear whatever we want (I went to school in shalwaar kameez since primary school, which I hated btw at teh time, becasue I was the only one and therefor always picked at), we're allowed to slaughter halal meat. So he said you can't say we're oppressed (yet), well a lot has chagned of course since september 11, that has had it's impact everywhere. But still, you can't say at this moment that we're being really oppressed.
It surely does. It depends on the individual though. While some people become more tolerable and open minded, others might become more cliquish and intolerant.
some very interesting points made :)
armughal... why does religion have to be associated with countries? i mean.. is someone any less of a muslim if they were born and raised in the west as opposed to 'the mother land'?
i find that people in the west (or in my case the south).. have become more religious whilst living here... because there is more emphasis on halal and haram and praying... and zakkat.. the younger generation have become more intouch with Islam.... Ive also noticed that the muslim male poppulation are now more eager to go to the masjid.. to attend islamic lectures.. whereas the females are still sitting on the border line...
when i go back to pakistan.. even though my cousins back there are perceived to be more religious.. as they know how to read arabic fluently.. they go to the masjid and so on and so forth... they still dont have indept understanding of Islam... islam for them is part of culture.. its just the way they have been brought up.. as for us here in west/south... we are taught Islam when we're upto about 7-9... but when we hit our teens.. thats when we start learning and understanding ourselves...
and its not muslims who taech us faith.... its the non-muslims :)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sadzzz: *
and its not muslims who taech us faith.... its the non-muslims :)
[/QUOTE]
see, thats exactly what living in the west does to u....
may Allah help u :)
but what is wrong with that armughal? im not even making fun of it... but i have learnt more about being faithful from people who are not muslims.. (as in they are chritians/anglicans) then people who ARE muslims...
its not my fault i was brought up in the west.. but im thankful that i was..
im being very serious today.. for once.. but why do u think the west weakens our faith? u label me a moderate muslim.. yet u have no idea what i do.. i may be a 5 time namazi.. aur may not pray at all... how would u know wats in my heart?
salams ... I personally believe that living in the west , a muslim (pakistani) finds his faith in islam to be strengthened rather than becoming weak. Musluims in the west follow islam in a very plain and simple way, we in pakistan we make a mixture of religion and culture.
TC
Ahsan