Does hadith explain Quran?

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

Amy

But the question still remains. How did you learn to pray?

I will bet my bottom dollar that you are no mathematical genius, as implied in your paste in order to learn the concept of Salaat.

So please be kind enough to elaborate on how you were taught.

Me personally, I was taught at the Masjid using authentic A'Hadeeth as a teaching tool.

Finally, just a point that Analyze picked up on. Do you believe that the Messengers of Allah SWTA were not superior to you despite this being mentioned in the Qur'aan.
If you cannot find this ayat, please let me know so that I can quote to you.

42

Amy, many people have explained this issue with great detail and explaination with references. So, I won't bother giving my opinion on it because it is pretty much the same as this article:
Part 1.(taken from " AN INTRODUCTION TO THE SUNNAH" )

The Qur'ân is the word of God which was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad, may the peace and blessings of God be upon him, and preserved both verbally and in writing by his Companions. Apart from the Qur'ân, whatever the Prophet uttered or did was also preserved by the Companions. Thus the Sunnah includes the sayings of the Prophet, peace be upon him, known commonly as Ahaadeeths (i.e. sayings), his practices, and actions which gained his approval. Both the Qur'ân and the Sunnah fall under a common title "wahy" (i.e. revelation or inspiration); the difference between the two is that the Qur'ân is a revelation which is recited (matalu) in the formal prayer (salat) while the Sunnah is not recited in the formal prayers. The importance of the Sunnah as the second source of Islam is covered in Chapter 2.

First of all, we will establish that the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of God be upon him, not only received the verses of the Qur'ân from God, but he also received other revelation from time to time which is now preserved in the form of Ahaadeeths. The following examples show how the Qur'ân itself refers to this revelation:

  1. According to verse 144 of Surah al-Baqarah (Chapter 2 of the Qur'ân), God Almighty commanded the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of God be upon him, to face the Ka'bah (in Mecca) in his daily prayers instead of Jerusalem.

"We see the turning of thy face to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah that shall please thee. Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque; wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction."

But why was the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of God be upon him, facing Jerusalem before that? Verse 143 (of Surah al-Baqarah) shows that God Himself had appointed Jerusalem as the initial Qiblah (i.e. direction faced when praying) for the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of God be upon him.

"And we appointed the Qiblah to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (from the Faith)."

The appointment of the previous Qiblah is referred to as being in the past. But there is no verse in the Qur'ân which commands the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of God be upon him, to face Jerusalem at the beginning of his mission! Therefore, the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of God be upon him, must have received this guidance from God in a form other than the Qur'ân. As we have said above, this alternative revelation is preserved in the Sunnah.

  1. In verse 3 of Surah al-Tahreem (Chapter 66 of the Qur'ân), a certain incident is cited.

"When the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to one of his wives, and she then divulged it, and God made it known to him, he confirmed a part of it and repudiated a part. Then when he told her of it, she said, 'Who told you this?' He said, 'He told me Who knows and is well-acquainted (with all things)'."

We must consider carefully the phrases "God made it known to him" and "He told me Who knows and is well-acquainted", The question is, how did God make it known to him and tell him? Certainly not via the Qur'ân, since there is no mention of it anywhere else in the Book of God. Therefore, the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of God be upon him, must have been told via revelation from God which is not part of the Qur'ân.

  1. In verse 5 of Surah al-Hashr (Chapter 59 of the Qur'ân), a reference is made to the expedition against the rebellious Jewish tribe of Banu Nadir, during which the Muslims cut down some palm-trees and left others alone.

"Whether ye (O Muslims) cut down the tender palm-trees or ye left them standing on their roots, it was by leave of God, and in order that He might cover the rebellious transgressors with shame."

Here, their action is attributed to the "leave of God" given to them. Nowhere in the Qur'ân is such permission found. Hence God guided the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of God be upon him, in this matter but not via the Qur'ân.

  1. According to verses 17-18 of Surah al-Qiyamah (Chapter 75), God took it upon Himself to collect the Qur'ân. The Prophet, may the peace and blessings of God be upon him, directed the scribes of the Qur'ân to arrange its surahs (chapters) in the order found today; this is not the order in which they were revealed. Therefore, since this was God's responsibility, it shows that He guided the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of God be upon him, with respect to the order of the surahs.

These are just a few examples out of many which leave no doubt that the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of God be upon him, used to receive revelation from God either directly or through the medium of the Angel Gabriel (Arabic: Jibreel). A part of this revelation was preserved word for word under the title of the Qur'ân. All other revelation was embodied either in the Prophet's sayings or in his practices which were carefully preserved by the Companions as the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad, may the peace and blessings of God be upon him.

The various purposes served by the Sunnah

The Mother of the Believers (Arabic: Umm al-Mu'mineen) 'Aishah was once asked: "What was the character of the Prophet?" She replied: "His character was nothing but the Qur'ân". Thus the Prophet, peace be upon him, was an embodiment of the Qur'ân itself: whatever he practiced or said, i.e. the Sunnah, is related to the guidance of the Qur'ân. Let us explore the role of the Sunnah in relation to the Qur'ân.

43

[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Amy

But the question still remains. How did you learn to pray?

I will bet my bottom dollar that you are no mathematical genius, as implied in your paste in order to learn the concept of Salaat.

So please be kind enough to elaborate on how you were taught.

Me personally, I was taught at the Masjid using authentic A'Hadeeth as a teaching tool.

Finally, just a point that Analyze picked up on. Do you believe that the Messengers of Allah SWTA were not superior to you despite this being mentioned in the Qur'aan.
If you cannot find this ayat, please let me know so that I can quote to you.**
[/quote]

Definitely not from any so called religious scholer. Did you read that mathematical article. Its a lengthy article and I personally don't agree with it. I questioned Islam, existance of God and validity of Quran which led me read and understand what this was all about and that's how I learnt to pray. I don't believe in the ritual of varius hand gestures, facing qibla, kneeling etc. I also don't believe that five times are the only times specified for prayer. My relationship with my God is 24/7. My prayer is Surah Al-Fatihah and then I add whatever I need to. Sometimes I pray once a day, other times I might pray 15 times. I pray where-ever when-ever I can. I would never go to any of these people for any clarification or guidance. I consider them handicapped and corrupt and most of all, totally ignorant about Islam.

Punjabi Kurhi

44

[quote]
Originally posted by Girl from Quraysh:
*>>>>My religion is very simple based on presence of God, **his Prophet and His Book, the quran.<<<<*

I'm curious as to how you reconcile that statement with your vehement rejection of the hadiths; as it is the Sunnah--the actions and the words of the Prophet, which have been recorded for us in the form of hadiths.

**
[/quote]

Stay curious and understand quran. Hadith is a man made fabrication and I don't need it. Let God be the judge of it. Prophet never said follow what I do, he said I brought you this message meaning quran and that's what quran tells us that prophet was there for only one purpose and that was to deliver quran. Rest is all satanic ritual.

Punjabi Kurhi

45

Amy>"I don't believe in the ritual of varius hand gestures, facing qibla, kneeling etc."

You do believe in KoRaan right?

Even though I posted this verse in the last reply, but here it is again:

verse 144 of Surah al-Baqarah (Chapter 2 of the Qur'ân)

"We see the turning of thy face to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah that shall please thee. Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque; wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction."

You say you don't believe in facing Qibla, what you really mean is you don't believe in KoRaan.
I get the feeling that you want to follow your own desires in following ISLAM rather than following Islam like Prophet(saw) did. You want to follow it the way it suits you.

46

[quote]
Originally posted by Abdul Basit:
**Amy>"I don't believe in the ritual of varius hand gestures, facing qibla, kneeling etc."

You do believe in KoRaan right?

Even though I posted this verse in the last reply, but here it is again:

verse 144 of Surah al-Baqarah (Chapter 2 of the Qur'ân)

"We see the turning of thy face to the heavens: now shall We turn thee to a Qiblah that shall please thee. Turn then thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque; wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction."

You say you don't believe in facing Qibla, what you really mean is you don't believe in KoRaan.
I get the feeling that you want to follow your own desires in following ISLAM rather than following Islam like Prophet(saw) did. You want to follow it the way it suits you.**
[/quote]

I travel all over the globe and I can't carry a compass with me to figure out which way qibla is. I can look up to the sky and address God. What I believe, is for God to judge. Do you really think you are facing qibla? I want to follow it the best I can not the way it suits me and as I said before, I don't need anyone to explain to me what this is all about. Try to understand the essence of your religion and you will set yourself free. God is compassionate and not rigid, quran tells us that.

Punjabi Kurhi

47

Amy, trying to figure out where qibla is your problem not mine when your traveling. I only pointed out that you MUST be facing Qibla to pray and Koraan tells us that.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Now either face up or down, its up to you and what your desires tell you. But again, Koraan says you face the qibla, NOT up and down.

Koraan also said OBEY the messenger, you obey the messenger by following his ways and his ways can only be found in Ahaadeeth books not in Koraan. Read my previous reply on second page.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

48

As stated earlier the hadith of Bukhari is not worth the paper it is printed
on. By following such ludicrous hadith which clearly taint the good name of
the Prophet Muhammed, the Muslims have been lost for over 1000 years now.
They can only recall the glorious days of the Prophet. Little do they realize
that during the glorious days there was no hadith. There was only the Quran.

I’ll pray the way I interpret Quran. This thread is about the fabrication and lies told by bukhari and others and not about my personnal religious practice which is much more accurate than any one that I have been discussing this subject with. I think true meaning of quran should not be distorted. Hadith has done a lot of damage to the religion and made it a very complicated religion. That is totally unacceptable. Try to understand quran and its message. Your fabrication of saying that quran says obey the messenger but you left out the rest. Obey the messenger in the context of the message that I sent to you through him. So don’t manufacture lies and attribute then to quran or the Prophet. This is a biggest dissrevice to the religion. May God set you free from the man made fabrication of your religion.

Punjabi Kurhi

49

Analyze-it/Sholey:

Finally, just a point that Analyze picked up
on. Do you believe that the Messengers of Allah SWTA were not superior to you despite this being mentioned in the Qur'aan.
If you cannot find this ayat, please let me know so that I can quote to you.

Here's my answer:

Quran: 28:110

Say; " I am but a man like your selves but the inspiration has come to me, that your God is one God; Whosoever expects to meet his God, let him work righteousness, and in the worship of his Lord, admit no one as partner.

I stand by my earlier statement.

May God set you free from the man made fabrications and lies about Islam, the Prophet and The Quran.

Punjabi Kurhi

50

<>>

Kindly tell us in what ways did ahaadeeth damaged the religion and in what ways did it made complicated?

Obeying Koran is obligatory on every muslim. But the verses in Koran say obey the messenger, if it was Koran, God would have certainly said obey the koran which I sent to mohammed(saw). In the same context, you don’t obey the Koran, you follow it because it is a quidence.

Could you also kindly tell us HOW did prophet prayed namaaz, how did he performed hajj and what did he do in times of Ramadaan and what actions did he take in matters concerning Zakaat?

Thanks.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Abdul Basit (edited June 10, 2001).]
51

Go to the begining of this thread and read the first post.

Punjabi Kurhi
52

amy.....
I read your lengthy answers...normally I don't.
You can't make me understand how to pray five times a day only from Quran.
When Allah ordered for Namaz, Sahabas aske from Prophet that how should they prayed, he answered that they should do as they see him doing.
amy......
I am not really too sure, are you Ahmadi or Qadiyani...if so
then we are stupids wasted our time talking to a non-muslim on Hadith
while non muslims need to understand Allah and Prophet first then any other thing.
If you are not Ahmadi or Qadiyani then you are in serious trouble, improve your knowledge about Islam, don't just cut and paste different articles from few Ahmadi websites.

Don't say Prophet is like us, Hadrat Abdullah bin Zubair drunk Prophet's blood, Imam Hasan Hussain used to suck his tongue when they are thursty.

Would you drink your dad's blood or eat his spit, nevermind howmouch you love him.
Have you ever seen any human without a shadow other than Prophet(salla Allah ho alaihe wasallm) how are you like him then???

53

[quote]
Originally posted by wasir:
**amy.....
I read your lengthy answers...normally I don't.
You can't make me understand how to pray five times a day only from Quran.
When Allah ordered for Namaz, Sahabas aske from Prophet that how should they prayed, he answered that they should do as they see him doing.
amy......
I am not really too sure, are you Ahmadi or Qadiyani...if so
then we are stupids wasted our time talking to a non-muslim on Hadith
while non muslims need to understand Allah and Prophet first then any other thing.
If you are not Ahmadi or Qadiyani then you are in serious trouble, improve your knowledge about Islam, don't just cut and paste different articles from few Ahmadi websites.

Don't say Prophet is like us, Hadrat Abdullah bin Zubair drunk Prophet's blood, Imam Hasan Hussain used to suck his tongue when they are thursty.

Would you drink your dad's blood or eat his spit, nevermind howmouch you love him.
Have you ever seen any human without a shadow other than Prophet(salla Allah ho alaihe wasallm) how are you like him then???**
[/quote]

Mr. Wasir,

I am Ahmedy and I can say with certainty that Miss Amy has no link with Ahmedies.

We Ahmedies have most clear opinion on this issue. And this our opinion do not match in any way to the opinion of Miss amy.

Miss Amy only and only follow her own interpretation of Quran.

She has been pointed out that Quran itself has asked Muslims to FOLLOW ALLAH AND HIS MESSANGER. But due to the fact that she is not Ahmedy, so she cannot understand the true situation.

The true opinion on this issue is ONLY AND ONLY that which is the opinion of Ahmedies.

Mr. Wasir,

You believe in Ahadith. There is clear Hadith in Sahi Bukhari that Promissed Masih shall come and HE WOULD BE THE "HAKAM ADAL"

This name "HAKAM ADAL" clearly suggests that in the time of That Promissed Masih, there shall be differences among Muslims on various issues. AND THAT PROMISSED MASIH SHALL BE "HAKAM ADAL" FOR THOSE DIFFERENCES.

It means that Promissed Masih being the "HAKAM ADAL" shall decide about all these issues. And OBVIOUSLY HIS DECESION WOULD BE ON THE RIGHT.

So I congratulate all Muslims that Promissed Masih, as was promissed, came in Muslims just about 100 years ago. His name was Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed. And he was the "HAKAM ADAL".

During his times, there were so many differences among Muslims on various issues as was already predicted by Holy Prophet (PBUH).

One of those issues was the Issue of the status of Quran and Hadith.

During the time of Promissed Masih Hazrat Mirza Sahib, there were TWO EXTREMES among Muslims on this Issue.

1- First Extreme was AHL-e-Hadith. They thought that Quran can be tested on the basis of Hadith. They gave first Importance to Hadith and secondary importance to Quran. The main Advocate of this extreme was MAULVI MUHAMMAD HUSSAIN BATTALVI.

2- 2nd Extreme was AHL-e-Quran. They considered all Ahadith just useless. They thought all Ahadith should be thrown in Dust Bin. The main Advocate of this Extreme was Mr. Abdullah Chakrralvi.( I think Miss Amy is his follower ).

So it was the situation in the period of that "Hakam Adal" promissed Masih.

Now "Hakam Adal" had to decide on this issue and His decesion would have been on the right.

I again congratulate all Muslims that their Promissed Masih gave timely decesion on this Issue.

The main points of his decesion are as follows:

.......To know about the teachings of Islam FIRST SOURCE IS THE QURAN.

Quran is the most perfact and most complete teaching for Human being. Quran is totally the wording of Allah. Quran is the most original book and is totally free from altrations.

The second source to know about the teachings of Islam is the SUNNAH.

SUNNAH is the complete code of acts according to the teachings of Quran performed by Holy Prophet himself. To follow SUNNAH is required from Muslims because Quran itself has asked Muslims TO OBEY ALLAH AND HIS MESSANGER.

Sunnah reached us in its original form from generation to generation.

The third source to know about the teachings of Islam is HADITH.

Since Ahadith were collected some two hundred years after the Rasalat Period and before the start of Ahadith period Muslims used to follow Sunnah for detailed matters, therefore SUNNAH has the superiority over Hadith.

Since Ahadith were collected some two hundred years after the Rasalat Period, therefore all Ahadith cannot be claimed for originality or correctness as is the case with Quran.

It is due to this fact that Imam bukhari and other Authers of Ahadith Books always used to mention the names of narrators of Hadith.
Infact, they also had analysed about the reliability of the narrators. Rijal Books were also written to know about the lives of those narattors.

Due to these facts Authors of Ahadith Books such as Imam Bukhari and others had themself divide all Ahadith into two possible classifications.

1- Authentic Ahadith.

2- Poor Ahadith.

It always had been a difficulty in deciding about the authenticity of a perticular Hadith.

I once again congratulate all Muslims that their Promissed Masih has given them the exact criteria for deciding about the authenticity of a particular Hadith.

That criteria is as under:

Any Hadith shall be accepted if it is according to the teachings of Quran BECAUSE QURAN HAS CONFIRMED THIS HADITH.

Any Hadith shall be accepted if it is according to SUNNAH BECAUSE ITS AUTHENTICITY CAN BE VERIFIED THROUGH SUNNAH THAT HAS REACHED US FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION.

Any Hadith which appears to be against the Quran and Sunnah, then its meanings shall be adjusted to make them confirm to the meanings of Quran and Sunnah. And if it is done successfully then that Hadith is also accepted.

If a particular hadith is not according to Quran and Sunnah and there is also no way to adjust its meanings according to Quran and Sunnah then THAT HADITH SHALL BE REJECTED.

If a particular Hadith do not appear to be in accordance with Quran and Sunnah and this Hadith is composed of a prediction and later on that prediction comes true, Then THAT HADITH SHALL BE CONSIDERED TRUE BECAUSE ITS CORRECTNESS IS VERIFIED BY ALLAH HIMSELF.

So Mr. Wasir I am waiting your reply on this topic and on Ahmedy/Muslim topic also.

54

Babar123,

How do you explain the following and what is the context of statement.

"I am the Messiah of the time and I am Moses on whom God conferred His speech. I am Muhammad and Ahmad, the selected one."
(Taryaq-ul-Qulub, Page 3)

"He (Mirza Ghulam) is a prophet of God and the like of every prophet."
(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 79, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)

"I (God) shall stand by this (Mirza Ghulam) prophet."
(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 87, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)

"If thou hadst not been, I (God) would not have created the heavens."
(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 85; Istifta, Page 604, 649)

"Listen to Me, My son; Thou art from My water and they (other people) from dust..."
"Christ and I (Mirza Ghulam) are in a position wherein we can be metaphorically termed as sons of God."
(Dafi-ul-Bala, Page 6; Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Page 86; Arbain, Page 34, by Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)

"I dreamt that I was Allah and I believed that I was really he."
(Aina-i-Kamalat, Page 564)

"I saw that I was God, and believed that I was He, and in that condition I was saying, 'We intend to create a new system and a new heaven and earth.' Then, I said 'We decorated the Lower heaven with Lights; and added, We shall create men out of the extract of earth'."
(Kitab-ul-Bariya, Page 78; Aina-i-Kamalat, Page 564)

And finally, here is the million dollar answer.

The following are some of the difference between Islam and Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ):

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) rejects the concept of absolute Finality of Prophethood in hazrat Muhammad(SAW), as confirmed in Quran, Hadith, Sunnah of the Holy Prophet(SAW), Tradition of Companions, the writings of Saints and Muslim Scholars, and the opinion of the entire Ummah for almost 1500 years.

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) maintains that Mirza Ghulam Qadiani was a Prophet (nabi and rasul).

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) is based on the belief that Mirza was the second advent of hazrat Muhammad(SAW).

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) rejects the concept of completion of the revelations of
Allah(SWT) in the Holy Quran.

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) holds that Mirza Ghulam Qadiani's revelations (Books) were on the same level as all prior revelations (Quran, Bible, Torah).

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) rejects authentic Hadith based on Mirza's alleged revelations and teaches his personal interpretation of the Holy Quran. Qadiani ( Ahmadiyya ) leadership has forged several unauthentic translations of the Holy Quran to try to confuse and mislead uninformed individuals.

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) teaches that Jesus(pbuh) was crucified, brought down alive, recovered from his injuries, escaped to Kashmir (India), lived there for 86 more years, died there, is buried there, and won't return.

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) teaches that Mirza Ghulam Qadiani was also the promised Mehdi.

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) maintains that Mirza Ghulam Qadiani was also the promised Messiah. The Qadianis ( Ahmadis ) reject the advent of Jesus Christ(pbuh), as the promised Messiah, just before the Day of Judgment.

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) declares those who do not accept or reject the claims of Mirza to be Kafir. Qadianis have announced all Muslims to be unbelievers and have forbidden their followers from wedding their daughters to Muslims, praying behind Muslims, and offering prayer on their dead - be it a child or an adult Muslim.

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) has declared Jihad -- specially against the British colonial powers that had occupied India -- Haraam.

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) requires complete devotion and obedience to the British Government, as an article of faith. Qadianis should be willing to sacrifice their wealth, talent, and soul in the cause of the British. Britain is presently the headquarter of the Qadiani Movement.

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) holds two cities in India (Qadian) and Pakistan (Rabwah) as holy as Mekkah and Madinah. Qadianis ( Ahmadiyya ) are supposed to perform Hajj by attending their annual congregation, instead of visiting Mekkah.

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) maintains that Mirza Ghulam Qadiani was superior to all the Prophets(pbut) of Allah(SWT).

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) refers to the companions of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani as Sahaba and his wives as Mother of the Believers (Ummahatul Muminin).

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) advances the notion that many verses of the Holy Quran were revealed to Mirza Ghulam Qadiani and that many of the praises of Prophet Muhammad(SAW), mentioned in Quran, were really intended for Mirza Ghulam Qadiani.

Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) claims Mirza's Mosque at Qadian (India) to be Masjid-ul-Aqsa.

The irony is that every one of the above claims can be proved without a shadow of a doubt, so I'll save brother Wasir the trouble.

I would love to hear the justification for these statements!

55

Here is the Fatwa relating to Mirza Ghulam Ahmed.

The third question from the Fatwa No. 1615:

Question: What is the Islamic ruling (fatwa) about this new religion Ahmadiyya and its followers? … In addition, when and where did this religion originate and what is the Islamic ruling (fatwa) about people who are in its favor?

All Praise to Allah who is The One and Blessings and Peace be upon his Messenger, his Followers and Companions … To the Point:

Answer: The Pakistan government has ruled these people outside the fold of Islam; also, the Muslim World League (Rabita A’ailm-e-Islami) in Mecca has passed a similar fatwa. In the gathering of the Muslim Scholars (Rabita A’ailm-e-Islami) in the year 1394 A.H. (1974), a written statement was drafted to explain the true principles of this group, how and when they started, and so on. Very briefly, this group has declare that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, an Indian, is a prophet who has received revelations from Allah and that no one will be correct in his Islam, unless he believes in him (Mirza). He (Mirza) was born in the 13th century, but Allah(SWT) has told us in his Book (Quran) that prophet Muhammad(SAW) is the last of Prophets1; all Muslim scholars have given an unanimous ruling that whoever makes the claim that after him(SAW) there can appear a new prophet is a Kafir (non-Muslim), because he will be lying about Allah’s Book and about the hadith of the Prophet(SAW) which states that he(SAW) is the very last of the Prophets. In addition, this would be contrary to the consensus of the Muslim Ummah.

With Allah is Success and Peace of Allah be upon his Messenger Muhammad and his Followers and Companions.

The Permanent Board for Inquiry and Fatwa (Saudia Arabia) :

Member Member Vice Chairman Chairman
Abdullah bin Ghaud Abdullah bin Ghedian Abdulrezagh Afifi Abdulaziz bin Abdullah bin Baz

1: Ahmad: 398/2, 412, 79/3, 248, 81/4, 84, 127, 128, 278/5; Al-Bukhari: 3535; Muslim: 2286, 2287

56

Miss Amy,

Ahadith are important because they are claimed to be originated by Holy Prophet himself and you must know that Quran itself has asked Muslims to Obey Messanger.

Ahadith must never be rejected unless they are rejected by Quran.

57

Mr. Sholey:

Here is Fatwa of Maulana Abu-Al-Kalaam Azad.

Maulana Abu-Al-Kalaam Azad states that:

beside the fact that he differ in beliefs to those of Ahmedies BUT HE STILL CONSIDER THEM TRUE MUSLIMS. THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO OFFER PRAYERS IN ANY MOSQUE. THOSE MUSLIMS WHO FORBID THEM IN DOING SO ARE NOT ON THE RIGHT. AND IT IS NOT TRUE FOR MUSLIMS TO CONSIDER THEM NON-MUSLIM IN ANY WAY.

So there is difference of Opinion among Alims about us.

POLITICAL ALIMS CONSIDER US NON-MUSLIMS.

TRUE ALIMS CONSIDER US MUSLIMS.

Who is political Alim and who is true Alim?

True Alims never tell a lie.

Political Alims mostly tell a lie.

Political Alim state that ALL MUSLIM UMMAH CONSIDER AHMEDIES AS NON-MUSLIM which is a clear Lie.

For proof to this fact, I have already presented Maulana Abu-al-Kalam's statement. He do not consider Ahmedies as Non-Muslims.

So about your other alligations. But first you were to answer my Question on Ahmedy/Muslim topic. You tried here but is not clear. You yourself were to decide about me keeping that condition in mind.

However I tell you In brief that for all the claims of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Sahib, There are clear proofs available in Quran and Hadith.

I shall give you some detailed answer lateron because at the moment I have to go.

58

Mr. Sholey:

And following is the clear LIE in YOUR FATWA:

"all Muslim scholars have given an unanimous ruling that whoever makes the claim that after him(SAW) there can appear a new prophet is a Kafir."

In my next post I shall give you a list of all the Muslim Scholars who although are not Ahmedies but they believe that prophets can appear after Holy Prophet.

So you have given the Fatwa of a POLITICAL ALIM.

59

Brothers/Sisters,
Assalamu alaikum,

this thread was dedicated to "Does hadith explain Quran?", so please keep it for that subject.... discuss AHMEDI / QADIANI Islam in another one.

the starter of this thread does not want to learn that HADITH is essential while learning Quran. the ONLY purpose of initiating this thread was to propagate the idea of rejecting Ahadith and Sunnah. Amy is from among "munkireen-e-hadith" group as is obvious from her messages. she really does not want to acknowledge the importance of Ahadith.

Amy: have you read the Ayats in Quran which tells us qualities of Muslims as "raki'oon", "yasjudoon". what are these qualities? don't they mean kneeling? bending? beleive it or not, you are blinded.

while seeing people like Amy, my faith get stronger and stronger when I read Ayats in Quran which says that Quran will be a source of Hidaya for some ... but not for all.

some people will go astray, as did Amy.

We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

60

Babar123

You actually state:

In my next post I shall give you a list of all the Muslim Scholars who although are not Ahmedies but they believe that prophets can appear after Holy Prophet.

However, the Qur'aan states:

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but He is the Messenger of Allah and the last of the Prophets. And Allah is ever knower of everything. 33:40-44

So which do you believe, the QUR'AAN or the scolars.

Please don't dig a deeper hole than you have already dug for yourself.