[quote]
Originally posted by amy:
Its a concise book translated into several languages.
[/quote]
Really no wonder it took 22 years for it to be completely revealed, interetsing conclusion you drew for all of us. So amy how does it prove to be concise, its about Islam, and islam is a complete way of life, or r u trying to say that ur life is very concise and simple. Eat, sleep and live until u die .....
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
My question is still there.....
If you are so wise and clever then
Leave Hadit on one side, just make me understand about the Prayer of Fajar...
Where Quran says that, read two Sunnahs and Two Faradhs....
Find from Quran, what to read in Each cycle (rakath) of Faradhs.....
How to read behind Imam and how to read on your own....
This is just one exmple, what if you have to explain whole Shariah from Quran.
just try to understand the
[quote]
Originally posted by Pilot25:
If I live by Quran and ignore the Hadiths, am I still a muslim?
[/quote]
No muslim can do that. So if you did then you wouldn't be a muslim.
Actually it simply isn't possible to do what you are saying.
Because if you follow the Quran then you see that the Quran tells you to follow the hadith and as you are following the Quran you will have to do what it tells you, i.e. follow hadith.
And if you don't follow the hadith then you are not following the Quran. So you see it's not possible.
[quote]
Originally posted by LooksCanKill:
** Really no wonder it took 22 years for it to be completely revealed, interetsing conclusion you drew for all of us. So amy how does it prove to be concise, its about Islam, and islam is a complete way of life, or r u trying to say that ur life is very concise and simple. Eat, sleep and live until u die .....
**
[/quote]
Offcourse it took 22 years because it was revealed bit by bit, and in the next 2-3 decades, bit by bit, you will understand what ( I hope) I'm talking about, if all the bits and pieces of your bit by bit brain are still together, Kapeesh ? and next time try some Kibbles and Bits, specially made for people like you, will keep your bark to you.
[This message has been edited by amy (edited June 07, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by amy (edited June 07, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by wasir:
**We can't understand Quran Without Hadit. I prove here
Quran Says Read Namaz......but how
How many Farads, when to read, what to read
Only Hadit tells you.
Quran Says keep Roza....how
What is allowed and what is not during Roza
only Hadit tells you...
Quran Says Do Hajj......but how
Only Hadit Tells you
Quran says Do Wadu....but how
What breaks your Wadu, how to Wash yourself for Wadu
only Hadit tells you
I can go on and on but thats enough. If you are so knowledgeable then just try to understand the details of above very straight forward activities from only Quran.
Forget about more complicated problems.
**
[/quote]
Wasir:
You have asked several genuine questions and I'll answer them one by one as I find the appropriate answers in Quran and here's to start with Wuduu or ablution as prescribed by Quran. More to follow:
ABLUTION (WUDUU)
God has decreed four steps for ablution, but the Muslims of today have their own rules. They followed the rules of their Scholars instead of the rules of God. The word Muslim means the one who submits to God . Submitting to God should include doing His Ablution not the ablution of the scholars. God's ablution is very simple and easy as you can see in the verse that explains it. (5:6) The purification of the ablution is the spiritual purification not the physical part of the washing process. If ablution was meant to clean the person physically, God would have ordered us to take a bath before every one of the five prayers. Ordering the dry ablution (Tayamum) (using the dust for the purification), proves that God did not mean the ablution for the purpose of physical cleaning as some claims. The physical cleaning part of the ablution is a very secondary gain that should not be considered the main goal of the washing.
Here is the ABLUTION as commanded by God HIMSELF . Those who consider improving on God's commandments should remember that they will stand defending their practice and blame it on someone else on a day where there is no trade, no nepotism and no intercession.
[5:6]
O you who believe, when you observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), you
shall: (1) wash your faces, (2) wash your arms to the elbows, (3) wipe
your heads, and (4) wash your feet to the ankles. If you were unclean
due to sexual orgasm, you shall bathe. If you are ill, or traveling,
or had any digestive excretion (urinary, fecal, or gas), or had
(sexual) contact with the women, and you cannot find water, you shall
observe the dry ablution (Tayammum) by touching clean dry soil, then
rubbing your faces and hands. GOD does not wish to make the religion
difficult for you; He wishes to cleanse you and to perfect His
blessing upon you, that you may be appreciative.
What Nullifies Ablution
[4:43]
O you who believe, do not observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) while
intoxicated, so that you know what you are saying. Nor after sexual
orgasm without bathing, unless you are on the road, traveling; if you
are ill or traveling, or you had urinary or fecal-related excretion
(such as gas), or contacted the women (sexually), and you cannot find
water, you shall observe Tayammum (dry ablution) by touching clean dry
soil, then wiping your faces and hands therewith. GOD is Pardoner,
Forgiver.
wow. another person whom Allah gave authority / decision power for others fate (hell or heaven).
Amy, for your consideration, before start of one of battles (enemy suddenly started throwing arrows) a servant of Prophet PBUH was killed by the enemy, many sahabs assumed and said the he got it (Heaven), but Prophet PBUH said no, he is covered by a burning sheet that he stole from 'maal-e-ghaneemat'.
its very clear that we can't see THE WHOLE, we can't really know who goes to Hell or Heaven.
Have you received some kind of certification from Allah regarding such decisions?
In kalima-e-shahadat you say "la ilaha il-Allah Muhammad-ur-Rasool-ul-Allah", isn't it right? then howcome you say something but in your deeds you don't reflect it? you would be a victim of contradictions in yourself. you would fall in category of Quranic ayats where Allah said something like O'people why you say something which you don't do.
yes, after we die, we will know who is right or wrong, but in no way you can say about Bukhari being in Hell.
as suggested / informed by other folks in thread.... all these SAHIH compilations are mere collections. if you find any Hadith which contradicts with Quran then simply ignore it, it would be the mistake by the narrator not the writer.
do you know anything about Hamza Yusuf? his is an American, whose native language is English but he knows more Arabic than majority of Muslims, he knows more about Islam than majority of Muslims. remember, he was born and raised in a Christian household.
this is an example of how people work hard to acquire knowledge, why could Bukhari have not learned Arabic? all you said against his personality is mere arrogance and hatred.
We oughta be Changez like, don't we?
Wasir:
I found rest of the references to your questions but I have to consolidate them in one article with accurate quranic ayats. I will try to post them as soos as I can.
Punjabi Kurhi
[quote]
Originally posted by Ahmed:
Because if you follow the Quran then you see that the Quran tells you to follow the hadith and as you are following the Quran you will have to do what it tells you, i.e. follow hadith.
And if you don't follow the hadith then you are not following the Quran. So you see it's not possible.
[/quote]
Ahmed, thankyou for your reply. I tried to find where the Quran said I should follow the Hadiths, but I failed miserably. Could you please point me in the right direction?
I always felt that the Quran had no reliance on the Hadiths, and as such, one could do with out them. This is why I'm anxious to clear this up as soon as possible.
Regards,
Me.
[This message has been edited by Pilot25 (edited June 07, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by wasir:
**We can't understand Quran Without Hadit. I prove here
Quran Says Read Namaz......but how
How many Farads, when to read, what to read
Only Hadit tells you.
Quran Says keep Roza....how
What is allowed and what is not during Roza
only Hadit tells you...
Quran Says Do Hajj......but how
Only Hadit Tells you
Quran says Do Wadu....but how
What breaks your Wadu, how to Wash yourself for Wadu
only Hadit tells you
I can go on and on but thats enough. If you are so knowledgeable then just try to understand the details of above very straight forward activities from only Quran.
Forget about more complicated problems.
**
[/quote]
mr. wasir,
hadith period started after about two hundered years from the Rasalat period.
In those two hundered years, Muslims offered prayers.
In those two hundered years, Muslims did wudu.
In those two hundered years...............and so on.
So Mr. Wasir, You please correct yourself.
It is not the Hadith which tell us how to offer prayer or how to do wudu.
It is actually THE SUNNAH.
What is SUNNAH?
It is the complete code of how to act according to Quranic Teachings of Quran done by holy Prophet himself. This complete code of action has reached us genereation to generation.
To know about the teachings of Islam, First source is Quran.
2nd Source is SUNNAH.
3rd source is Hadith.
Hadith is important because they are claimed to be originated from Holy Prophet.
We must not reject any Hadith unless it is rejected by Holy Quran or God's act.
what is Sunnah? and what is Hadith?
Sunnah is the way Prophet PBUH did anything and we learn it through Hadith.
Is there any other way of learning Sunnah???
We oughta be Changez like, don't we?
Amy .... u need some lesson in manners. I've been very decent to u but u keep dissing me instead of leading a decent argument.
So listen up, why dont u go kcuf with a snake because if u burn in hell ur gonna need to do it anyway.
U dont wanna believe it, it doesnt hurt me or anyone on this forum, all of us just want to correct some misconception u might have. U cant argue about the auhtenticity of such big things. IF ur a muslim u gotta follow quran and sunnah (and sunnah is only construed through hadiths).
Now God is the most merciful, i hope u agree with that. I mean thats in the quran, i didnt pick it up from the hadith. So u might as well go screw the whole world, maybe God will forgive u for it since he is merciful.
I hope u have a sunshine smile on ur face after ur though with it.
Its our Wits that make us MEN .... 'Braveheart'
For Wasir: (Promise Kept)
In my previous post addressed to you, I provided you with a reference in Quran about ablution or wuduu. Here's the rest. Now to save time and space, i'm gonna give you just the references and not the whole ayats and also to avoid plagiarism, I'll not cut and paste anything, as is the practice in this forum.
Abraham was the founder of Islam as we practice it today and he was the one who called us Muslims:
Quran: 22:78, 3:67-68, 16:123
Muhammed was follower of Abraham and since we are the followers of Muhammed, then we are the followers of Abraham. The Quran tells us that all religious practices of Islam came to us from Abraham.
Quran: 73:20, 2:125, 2:127-128
These references above are self explanatory for your questions about Salat and Zakat. If you could find a copy of quran in a language that you understand, you can easily find the answers.
Quran also gives us more proof that Salat was observed before Muhammed.
Quran: 3:43, 19:31, 19:59, 21:72-73
This is not to diminish anything from the Prophet but quran tells us that his job was only to deliver quran to his people and that really undercuts the belief about Hadith and Sunnah.
Fasting: Quran: 2:187, 2:183
Hajj: Quran: 22:26-27
I hope it helps you because really quran is complete way of life and once you understand it and act accordingly, you will find Islam very easy to follow.
Punjabi Kurhi
[This message has been edited by amy (edited June 08, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
**what is Sunnah? and what is Hadith?
Sunnah is the way Prophet PBUH did anything and we learn it through Hadith.
Is there any other way of learning Sunnah???
**
[/quote]
Sunnah is the way Prophet PBUH did anything and we learn it from our forefathers who learned it from their forefathers....So Knowledge of Sunnah reached us from generation to generation.
Hadith has confirmed this knowledge.
Tell me before the period of Hadith started what was the source of learning about sunnah?
As stated earlier the hadith of Bukhari is not worth the paper it is printed
on. By following such ludicrous hadith which clearly taint the good name of
the Prophet Muhammed, the Muslims have been lost for over 1000 years now.
They can only recall the glorious days of the Prophet. Little do they realize
that during the glorious days there was no hadith. There was only the Quran.
This is the essence of this whole article. Hadith is nothing but a fabrication of quran, and sunnah is nothing but invention of these satanic minds. Prophet Muhammed never said, " follow my example" or do what I do. Even quran very clearly says that Prophet's job was to deliver quran to his people and that's all. So to attribute fabricated sunnah to the Prophet, we are infact saying that Prophet was defiant of God's message. How can that be possible.
Punjabi Kurhi
Okay, I put this in the other thread, but it's valid here too.....
Amy, you have truly shot yourself in the foot this time. Before I start, let us establish the following.
1.) The Quran is the word of Allah
2.) The Hadith are the words of the Prophet (SAWS)
You say that we should only follow the Quran, only follow the explicit word of Allah.
Now read the following from the Quran.
"So take whatever the Messenger gives you and keep away from what he forbids you." (Surah Al-Hashr 59:7)
Here it is explained to us that the commandment of the Prophet is equal to a commandment from Allah. This is not the only place this is written, Allah has commanded us in many places in the Quraan to obey the Messenger. A few of these are:
"O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those charged with authority among you; and if you differ in anything among yourselves, then refer it to Allah and the Messenger if you do believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most suitable for final determination." 4:59
Obey Allah and the Messenger; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers. 3:32
And obey Allah and the Messenger; that ye may obtain mercy. 3:132
Those are limits set by Allah: those who obey Allah and His Messenger will be admitted to Gardens with rivers flowing beneath, to abide therein (for ever) and that will be the supreme achievement. But those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment. 4:13-14
And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger, these are with those upon whom Allah has bestowed favors from among the prophets and the truthful and the martyrs and the good, and a goodly company are they! 4:69
"The answer of the believers, when summoned to Allah and His Messenger in order that he may judge between them, is no other than this: they say, 'We hear and we obey'. It is such as these who will attain success." (Surah Al-Nur 24:51)
"But no, by your Lord! (O Muhammad) They cannot be believers until they make you judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against your decisions, but accept them with the fullest submission." (Surah Al-Nisa' 4:65)
Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if you turn back, know that it is Our Messenger's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner. 5:92
They ask thee concerning (things taken as) spoils of war. Say: "(such) spoils are at the disposal of Allah and the Messenger: So fear Allah, and keep straight the relations between yourselves: Obey Allah and His Messenger, if you believe." 8:1
O ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak). 8:20
O you who believe! answer (the call of) Allah and His Messenger when he calls you to that which gives you life; and know that Allah intervenes between man and his heart, and that to Him you shall be gathered. 8:24
"So take whatever the Messenger gives you and keep away from what he forbids you." (Surah Al-Hashr 59:7)
"You have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for anyone whose hope is in Allah." (33:21)
"He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah." (4:80)
Thus we as Muslims as 2 sources for our commandments: The commands of Allah, as laid down in the Quran, and the commands of the Prophet (SAWS) as laid down in the Hadith.
If you wanna discuss something with me then refrain from unnecessary comments and stay with the subject.
You have no idea how to interpret what you just said. When quran says take whatever the Prophet gives you , it also qualifies in several places that Prophet is here to give you only wordof God meaning quran.
And Hadith is not the word of prophet. This fabricated garbage was written 200 or so years after his death. I think I'm done with this.
Punjabi Kurhi
[This message has been edited by amy (edited June 09, 2001).]
Amy
Just for the record, can you please confirm for everyone here, if you do pray and if so where did you learn how to pray.!
If you have found an Ayat in the Qur'aan which actually teaches us the prayer and motions, please share this info with other muslims.
[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Amy
Just for the record, can you please confirm for everyone here, if you do pray and if so where did you learn how to pray.!
If you have found an Ayat in the Qur'aan which actually teaches us the prayer and motions, please share this info with other muslims.**
[/quote]
My prayer is my personal relation with God and he is the judge of my right and wrong. I don't believe that I have to stand behind anyone to pray, I do not believe that any human is qualified to judge me in any way. My religion is very simple based on presence of God, his Prophet and His Book, the quran.
No human being and I repeat no human being is superior to me or inferior to me. What I pray is my private matter and God will judge me for that.
Punjabi Kurhi
>>>>My religion is very simple based on presence of God, **his Prophet* and His Book, the quran.<<<<*
I'm curious as to how you reconcile that statement with your vehement rejection of the hadiths; as it is the Sunnah--the actions and the words of the Prophet, which have been recorded for us in the form of hadiths.
[quote]
Originally posted by amy:
**
No human being and I repeat no human being is superior to me or inferior to me. What I pray is my private matter and God will judge me for that.
**
[/quote]
============================================
Does it mean that you don't think prophet Muhammad is not superior to you.
Since you believe him to be messenger of God then he is a superior human being since he is the one chosen by God. If you reject this concept and say that he is not superior(even though he is chosen by God as messenger) will mean you are throwing away the whole concept of Islamic religion.