Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
Could not agree more.
Some time we speak in the defense of XYZ etc… to make muslim thali ky beengans, the ones who dont want to learn.. but get effected by stuff on the net, think.
I think title is sort of offensive, sort of implying, that posters hare, have unresolved issue about it problem.
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
On a general note, it matters not what you call each other. Problem arises when the worth of a human being is decided by his religious belief.
Muslim or non-muslim should be completely irrelevent. What should matter is your deeds as a human being.
In any case, interesting read. Especially the part on how Arabic can have religious importance, but Urdu apparently can not.
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
Timbuktu: The Ink of Scholars and the Blood of Martyrs – The Huffington Post](Timbuktu: The Ink of Scholars and the Blood of Martyrs | HuffPost Religion)
The article above, among other things, somewhat explores non-violent methods of discussing differing perspectives (if one feels the need to defend certain views), in Islamic tradition. And off topic, but God could very well be a “She”.
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
Why is it offensive? If you act or claim to be acting on behalf of God and kill people rational people would ask that question. If God is so power who runs everything in the universe…surely he has the capability to take care of rebellious people. But if you are acting on God behalf than you are admitting that God wont/can’t do anything or you beliefs/faith is so weak that very idea of questioning God makes you go beserk b/c internally you also have doubts about God. So, which is it?
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
^ i do agree that title is offensive. Just because some muslim does a wrong doesn’t mean you should start challenging faith on that basis. You can ask such questions separately. you can question faith and attributes of God like what He needs or what He does not. that is more of an intellectual and philosophical debate. we are ok to discuss that but relating one wrong doing to a general question is generalization. And it leaves us at receiving end that it is we Muslims who have to be giving clarifications all the times.
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
I’m speaking on a general basis here, but personally I believe people should be more offended by barbaric punishments, such as flogging and stoning for example, for personal matters, being associated with their religion, than harmless depictions of their prophet. If the depiction is unnecessarily offensive, then you can protest and be offended, but never resort to violence.
A human being does not stone another human being, a monster/dareenda stones another human being. When you awaken this monster/dareendgi inside someone, be assured the monster will not fall into slumber that easily. One thing is actually stoning someone, another is to believe in such punishments. Call it zehni dareendgi, which is also of no benefit for any society. Most of the depictions of prophet Mohammed are based on certain Muslims interpretation of Islam. So where does the real problem lie, the depictions or not have a clear cut stance against any form for dareendgi, but rather be ambiguous about it?
Saying “stoning is permissible, but there are certain rules”, instead of saying “stoning is barbaric and inhumane end of story” is where the real problem lies.
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
Religion itself will always stick around in one form or another, but it will constantly change. You cannot control it. Human history testament to that fact.
Islam is highly organized, and yet, look how soon the Muslims divided into Sunni and Shia.
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
Absolutely. Its a sign of insecurity that you refuse to allow the other side to speak. Are the Sunni ulemmas arguments so weak or the Ahmadis so strong that they should be forcefully suppressed?
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
First of all, im talking about Pakistan, not Gupshup forum. In Pakistan, an Ahmadi risks being murdered if anyone finds out about his religion.
Secondly, who really gives a rats rear end who is a Muslim or not. Your creator isnt going to think less of you if you lived your life without trying to define other peoples identity. You should be more concerned with the likes of ISIS and the Taliban and their attrocities, then whether some poor Ahmadi calls himself a Muslim (God forbid) !
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
Unless people make real effort to try and understand the message of the quran in the very context of the quran they are going to remain very confused about it.
Almost all people in the word hold make beliefs and they read the quran only to verify what they believe instead of trying to get the message of the quran from the quran itself. If one looks at the threads people make on this forum regardless muslims or nonmuslims one can see the confusion the people express. In fact this very question that does God needs people to defend HIM and the views expressed is clear proof of lack of proper understanding of the message of the quran.
Basically people have no idea why Allah created the universe and things in it as well as the human beings. This is why they have no idea why he sent messages and messengers and set-up a missionary network for this purpose. Till people read the quran and get this fundamental information from it nothing will make any sense.
1)Many people who claim to be muslims think that Allah created the universe because he wanted to create prophet muhammad so had Allah not created prophet muhammad then he could not have created anything at all.
2)Many people who claim to be muslims think that Allah created mankind to put them through a test and on that basis he set-up a day of judgement to reward or punish people according to how they did in their test.
3)Many people who claim to be muslims believe that Allah created mankind for his worship and by word ibaadah they only mean pooja paat.
The real reason why Allah created the creation and sent his revelations is just to express himself because being a living being anything that exists is bound to show some sign of its existence or being lively and the way Allah decided to express himself or make his presence felt is through creation and revelation.
Fundamentally Allah did not create anything for anything else but for himself however since he created things for himself his purpose could not become fulfilled unless the universe was planned and designed the way it is. This is why he assigned a role for himself and likewise roles for all other things in his scheme of things including human beings. These roles are explained in the quran in detail and one of the roles is that mankind must promote and defend the way of life advised by Allah in opposition to any way of life that people adopt in order to make life hell for each other.
It is a concept that rulers, money lenders, mullahs, their touts and supporters have been opposing always. To have proper grasp of all this one has to see what I have explained in the light of the quran HERE and HERE. It is a must read for all regardless muslims or nonmuslims.
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
This is a really good one… Very interesting. Thanks!
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
Interesting, you now care not but you found it necessary to re-enforce the point made by another poster below.
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
yes, but that does not mean the authenticity of religious scripture should be disregarded. And, there are still a lot of PRACTICING Muslims around who think beyond sectarianism but believe that Islam should be organized and integrated.
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
Yeah, but the point is, no one should be declaring anyone a Non-Muslim. As far as Ahmadis are concerned vis a vis your version of Islam, their views are irrelevant as you are still able to openly practice your faith. How the Sunni view the Ahmadi however is of relevance since they, unlike you, are not allowed to practice their faith openly. If you considered them non-Muslim (that’s misguided but you have a right to your opinion), that would still be fine but for the fact that they aren’t allowed to practice their beliefs unhindered.
Chintu is trying to make you see things from another perspective. He was trying to make you realize that just as you wouldnt want others to treat you, or express opinions about you, that are hurtful or are untrue (atleast in your mind), likewise, Ahmadis wouldnt want you to express such oppinions about them. Its called empathy. Recognizing the humanity in others and treating others as you would want them to treat you. Its not a difficult concept.
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
Again, simply put, all religious scripture is open to interpretation. There is no one authentic version.
Islam should be organized and integrated by whom? You, me, ISIS, the Ayatollah, Mullah Fazlullah? Everyone is a “Practicing” Muslim. The whirling dervishes and hash smoking fakirs are practicing, as are the suicide bombers. Shia are practicing, Wahabi are practing, Ahmadi are practicing. Who’s “PRACTICE” are you referring too?
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
Now you see we have problems so we need resolution. If we do not have resolution that does not mean we don’t need either. this is my point. Well, you can say that it is impossible but I persist it demands our struggles irrespective of how much effective our struggles are.
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
There is no solution. Unless you think your version is Islam is the right one, and thus must be imposed on everyone else. Which returns to the point of why religion is such a dangerous thing…
Better to not look for a solution where one doesnt exist. The solution then is to have a society unburdened with such questions. Leave faith to the individual and god, and focus on whats important.
Re: Does God needs people to defend HIM?
Logically if 10 persons out 15, without being imposed, can think same, then its is possible at some point remaining persons too can think same.